"Lord, Lord, Didn't We...?"

[Predi]

Interesting subject. Matthew 7:21 used to trouble me... I thought about myself as a true believer, but so did the people saying, "Didn't we...". And Christian doctrine has so many details... what if I'm missing one that can actually cause me to lose salvation?

After years of struggling I realized this weird fact: common Protestant doctrine teaches "Salvation is apart from works, but you must do one work very carefully - you must believe some things exactly the way we say it - or else - fry forever."

In other words, "There's nothing you can do to be saved, BUT you have to believe."

And how do I know exactly what to believe if the same Bible is interpreted by each denomination in a different way? Why did God make it so confusing?

No, it can't be, why would God confuse us? I started reading the Bible in a little more open way and after some time I realized that - first of all - Matthew 7:21 has nothing to do with us and nothing to do with afterlife, thus - I don't need to worry!

I know close to 100% Christian theologians teach otherwise... who cares? Being kicked out of church for heresy is a small price for peace in mind

 

[popsthebuilder]

Works of the flesh is not synonymous with Faith, repentance from sin, or abiding by the will of GOD. The intentional confusion of the masses and neutering of the otherwise faithful into GOD is indeed the work of the opposer.

No one is refuting the salvation that Christ made available to all. The issue is people's ability to attempt to make the blood of the Christ in vain through continued sin, proclimation of Faith alone, and acting as if knowing sinners are actually saints.

No one is talking about boasting or doing works for the site of man or profit there from. You are massing things together in an attempt to justify a terribly flawed view.

I humbly ask that you read without bias, or any other preconception or fear or negativity, and with utter honesty on a personal level. Might God's grace forgive us our transgressions and guide us down the path that He would have us take.

Peace

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[Epoisses]

No one is refuting the salvation that Christ made available to all. The issue is people's ability to attempt to make the blood of the Christ in vain through continued sin, proclimation of Faith alone, and acting as if knowing sinners are actually saints.

Faith alone is the only acceptable response to the gospel and this does not negate the book of James.

Faith alone in Christ produces the works or fruit of the Spirit.

Faith plus works produces the works of the flesh or carnal obedience.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Interesting subject. Matthew 7:21 used to trouble me... I thought about myself as a true believer, but so did the people saying, "Didn't we...". And Christian doctrine has so many details... what if I'm missing one that can actually cause me to lose salvation?

After years of struggling I realized this weird fact: common Protestant doctrine teaches "Salvation is apart from works, but you must do one work very carefully - you must believe some things exactly the way we say it - or else - fry forever."

In other words, "There's nothing you can do to be saved, BUT you have to believe."

And how do I know exactly what to believe if the same Bible is interpreted by each denomination in a different way? Why did God make it so confusing?

No, it can't be, why would God confuse us? I started reading the Bible in a little more open way and after some time I realized that - first of all - Matthew 7:21 has nothing to do with us and nothing to do with afterlife, thus - I don't need to worry!

I know close to 100% Christian theologians teach otherwise... who cares? Being kicked out of church for heresy is a small price for peace in mind

Yes believe; to really believe is to take as utter truth and hold to in all you do as instructed by the thing you believe in and believe.

In other words; if I believe a stop light is red I will stop. If I believe it's hot outside I will wear a t-shirt. If I truly believe in the teachings, example, and self sacrifice of the pure lamb, then I will strive to keep the commands placed on my heart through the Word of GOD. If I truly believe in the salvation available to me though I am nought but sin in myself, then I will do all I can to patiently persevere with all humility and suplication to GOD, doing all works with the Word of GOD close at heart. Having Faith is believing in the Word of GOD, not just attesting to such to other men.

Peace

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[popsthebuilder]

Scripture teaches salvation by works is a false doctrine.

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Two things please?

Can you reference scripture that says Faith without works is what is needed for salvation?

And second; we most probably agree that Faith in the Lord and GOD is capable of things without limit, if one only truly believes, so how is it then that to you Faith cannot produce works?

Lastly; you seem to be conflating salvation of the masses with the call, edification, and direction of the elect. Though both are by God's will and grace, they are two different things.

It says plainly that those in need or pain can drink, but conversely, the elect, the truly called by GOD are not to drink. Indeed one would need to reconsider their actions if they take the Word of GOD as if it was merely some jest. And to knowingly lead others away from the right path towards GOD through Christ is the only unforgivable sin, and such an individual would indeed be the chiefest of sinners.

I look forward to your reply.

Peace

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[beloved57]

Two things please?

Can you reference scripture that says Faith without works is what is needed for salvation?

And second; we most probably agree that Faith in the Lord and GOD is capable of things without limit, if one only truly believes, so how is it then that to you Faith cannot produce works?

Lastly; you seem to be conflating salvation of the masses with the call, edification, and direction of the elect. Though both are by God's will and grace, they are two different things.

It says plainly that those in need or pain can drink, but conversely, the elect, the truly called by GOD are not to drink. Indeed one would need to reconsider their actions if they take the Word of GOD as if it was merely some jest. And to knowingly lead others away from the right path towards GOD through Christ is the only unforgivable sin, and such an individual would indeed be the chiefest of sinners.

I look forward to your reply.

Peace

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Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies Rom 5:10.

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[popsthebuilder]

Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies Rom 5:10.

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Thanks.

Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
1: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3: Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
4: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
11: Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
14: For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
17: But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18: Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19: I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
20: For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21: What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22: But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sorry for the long post. It seemed necessary.

Peace

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[beloved57]

Thanks.

Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
1: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3: Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
4: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
11: Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
14: For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
17: But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18: Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19: I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
20: For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21: What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22: But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sorry for the long post. It seemed necessary.

Peace

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I said nothing about Rom 6. I posted Rom 5:10!

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[popsthebuilder]

Romans 5 (KJV) - ሮሜ
8: But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9: Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10: For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Definitely attests to not being of sin if you indeed are saved.

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[popsthebuilder]

I said nothing about Rom 6. I posted Rom 5:10!

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What's your point? You are aware that the chapters and verses are much more easy to grasp and understand if read without separation, right?

Peace

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[beloved57]

What's your point? You are aware that the chapters and verses are much more easy to grasp and understand if read without separation, right?

Peace

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What do you mean what is my point ? Are you that inattentive?

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[popsthebuilder]

What do you mean what is my point ? Are you that inattentive?

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I'm sorry, what? I asked you 2 questions and have raised points that you have seemingly ignored. You attempted to support your claim (that works as a result of Faith, and/ or striving to abide by the command of GOD based on the Word of GOD is actually not the will of GOD) with one verse that was out of context completely, so I read it and surrounding text and found pertinent information that supported my claim ( that works as a result of Faith and not for material gain or acquisition or reward of any sort, or even the sight or conversation of man are not only acceptable, but instructed.

You keep twisting and dodging ever so subtly, yet still, it would behoove us all to read and understand our books, and our actual direction with honesty. This can be tricky as your initial thought will often be conveniently swept away by some other glaring notion. Deception is insidious and pervasive. It stands out quite easily though when the right light is shined on it.

Peace

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[popsthebuilder]

Faith alone is the only acceptable response to the gospel and this does not negate the book of James.

Faith alone in Christ produces the works or fruit of the Spirit.

Faith plus works produces the works of the flesh or carnal obedience.

What do you mean " faith plus works"?

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[meshak]

What do you mean " faith plus works"?

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Epo is no different from b57. good luck trying to communicate with him.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Epo is no different from b57. good luck trying to communicate with him.

It's okay, I have a feeling no one will be too interested in profitable conversation with me or trying to help brothers and or sisters faithful to our Lord and GOD, if I'm involved, shortly.

Peace

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[meshak]

It's okay, I have a feeling no one will be too interested in profitable conversation with me or trying to help brothers and or sisters faithful to our Lord and GOD, if I'm involved, shortly.

Peace

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I have been reading yours and they are blessing.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I have been reading yours and they are blessing.

Oh...that is very kind. Thank you very much. I'm just repeating what stands out in scripture. I'm very glad it can at least comfort in some way. All praise and thanks is to GOD through Christ.

Peace

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[Epoisses]

Epo is no different from b57. good luck trying to communicate with him.

You're no different than the scribes and Pharisees except they were intelligent and you're not and they were Jews and you're not.

 

[Epoisses]

What do you mean " faith plus works"?

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It's the opposite of 'faith alone'.

 

[popsthebuilder]

It's the opposite of 'faith alone'.

I'm glad you agree that works are a product of Faith. So do you agree that Faith without works is dead as stated in scripture? I do agree that works without Faith are not of the will of GOD or the direction of man under GOD.

Peace

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