Libertarianism and property rights

[CabinetMaker]

I have no problems with my family looking out for me. It is their property too and my wife and I have entered into a partnership in life to help and support each other. But that is a free choice I have made with her. It is how we have decided to live.

But it is not my neighbor's nor the governments job.

If you have no insurance then it is in my best, albeit selfish, interests to watch out for you. I would rather you not got hurt than to have to pay for your convalescence.

Yes. He'd be a jerk for that, but he has a right to be. I don't believe in legislating good will. You either have it or you don't. But what does this have to do with building inspection?

It was never about building inspection. You built that straw man all by yourself.

Preferably I'd have no neighbor to begin with. I'm in the beginning stages of buying farmland surrounded by about 800 acres of corn and hay grass fields, so he probably won't see me anyway.

Many farmers have died that way.

 

[shagster01]

If you have no insurance then it is in my best, albeit selfish, interests to watch out for you. I would rather you not got hurt than to have to pay for your convalescence.

Well I do have insurance so watch a different neighbor.

It was never about building inspection. You built that straw man all by yourself.

Nope. It came straight from the op's author himself. He was the first to bring up building codes/inspection.

Many farmers have died that way.

Yes. I know a few. I wouldn't mind if that's how I go either.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

The infamous Libertarian disclaimer: "Even though I don't want a law prohibiting it, I'm personally against it."

Every law is based on someone's morals.

Now that we discussed that sick degenerate's views on starving deformed babies to death, let's talk about other types of property rights that you Libertarians believe in.

We libertarians do not want government as a forced religion on the people.

God ordained government to do good, something that you Libertarians have a problem acknowledging.

I like what Murray said afterwords. "in a libertarian society the existence of a free baby market will bring such "neglect" down to a minimum."

Selling babies to the highest bidder. I bet many a pedophile could bid top dollar.

There will never be a time, this side of heaven, where abortion will stop. Once you make it illegal, the people will go to the black market. The Libertarian government will reduce it to a minimum because of the free market it provides.

I claim, it is impossible to stop abortions from happening. Best to reduce it to the minimum

There will never be a time this side of Heaven where sin will stop. Once sin is legalized, as in the case of abortion, the numbers skyrocket.

*Several states had legalized abortion prior to Roe v Wade.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

It was never about building inspection. You built that straw man all by yourself.

Nope. It came straight from the op's author himself. He was the first to bring up building codes/inspection.

I brought up building codes because in an ideal Libertarian society there would be none under the guise of "private property rights".

 

[Nimrod]

God ordained government to do good, something that you Libertarians have a problem acknowledging.

Scripture reference please where "God ordained government to do good".

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
God ordained government to do good, something that you Libertarians have a problem acknowledging.

Scripture reference please where "God ordained government to do good".

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Romans 13: 1-7

What do you think the role of a righteous government is?

 

[Nimrod]

There will never be a time this side of Heaven where sin will stop. Once sin is legalized, as in the case of abortion, the numbers skyrocket.

*Several states had legalized abortion prior to Roe v Wade.

Planned Parenthood has received federal funding since 1970

Libertarians would not fund PP. The Austrian economist would recognize the fact once something becomes cheaper, more is demanded. It is expected to see the rates go higher once the funding was made by government.

Murray Rothbard "It is not the business of the law to make anyone good or reverent or moral or clean or upright."

Can you show me in the Bible where the Law is meant to make people good, or moral?

 

[Nimrod]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
God ordained government to do good, something that you Libertarians have a problem acknowledging.



13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Romans 13: 1-7

I had a feeling you would quote Romans 13. No where in Romans 13 do we read the government role is to do good.
1. It says we are to be subject to government authorities.
2. We are not to rebel government authorities.
3. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong
4. one in authority is God’s servant for your good
5. Then it goes back to be subject to authority.

Nothing about God ordaining government to do good.


Please show me in Romans 13 where "God ordained government to do good"

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Planned Parenthood has received federal funding since 1970.

Are you surprised that murder and socialism frequently go hand in hand?

Libertarians would not fund PP.

i.e. "I don't care if you kill your unborn baby, just pay for it yourself!"

The Austrian economist would recognize the fact once something becomes cheaper, more is demanded. It is expected to see the rates go higher once the funding was made by government.

Once there is no criminal consequences for immoral acts like murder (since 99% of abortions are done out of convenience, you can't call it anything other than that) people have a tendency to engage in it more frequently (look at the 'gay rights movement' as well).

Murray Rothbard "It is not the business of the law to make anyone good or reverent or moral or clean or upright."

If the law allowed parents to starve their deformed baby to death as ole Murray the barbarian suggested, would that not be making those parents bad (as seen through the eyes of God)?

Can you show me in the Bible where the Law is meant to make people good, or moral?

Been there done that. If you engage in a behavior that is unlawful (as seen through the eyes of God) then you're punished for it. Is that not an incentive for those without a strong moral code to be good?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Nothing about God ordaining government to do good.


Please show me in Romans 13 where "God ordained government to do good"

4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good.

It's so simple even a Libertarian can understand it.

 

[Nimrod]

4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good.

It's so simple even a Libertarian can understand it.

It doesn't say what you think it says. The person in authority is a person not a thing (government).
Potiphar is an authority over Joseph not a government.

And here lies your problem. Your understanding of what the Bible says and what you think it says.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good.

It's so simple even a Libertarian can understand it.

It doesn't say what you think it says. The person in authority is a person not a thing (government).
Potiphar is an authority over Joseph not a government.

What do you think institutions (the family, the church, civil government) consist of?

And here lies your problem. Your understanding of what the Bible says and what you think it says.

Romans 13 isn't the only passage talking about government.

Exodus 18:21 But select capable men from all the people—men who fear God, trustworthy men who hate dishonest gain—and appoint them as officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens.
Deuteronomy 1:13 Choose some wise, understanding and respected men from each of your tribes, and I will set them over you.
1 Peter 2:13–14 13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.
1 Kings 3:28 When all Israel heard the verdict the king had given, they held the king in awe, because they saw that he had wisdom from God to administer justice.
Proverbs 11:14 For lack of guidance a nation falls,
but victory is won through many advisers.
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