Let's talk women's rights!

[smothers]

Originally posted by Poly

I believe in a young woman's right not to be encouraged by the government to get pregnant as a teenager by telling her that they will support her and her illegitimate kids.

I support the right of a woman not to be looked at as a hero for raising kids without a dad so that future women won't be encouraged to do so.

Right on! Do you believe in the right of a woman to go to college?

 

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by smothers

Right on! Do you believe in the right of a woman to go to college?

If she can afford the tuition? Of course!

 

[smothers]

Many female members in the cult of Bob Enyart discourage kids from going to college or voting.

 

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by smothers

Many female members in the cult of Bob Enyart discourage kids from going to college or voting.

They do? Why?

Aren't kids too young to vote?

 

[ebenz47037]

Originally posted by Poly

I believe in a young woman's right not to be encouraged by the government to get pregnant as a teenager by telling her that they will support her and her illegitimate kids.

:thumb:

I support the right of a woman not to be looked at as a hero for raising kids without a dad so that future women won't be encouraged to do so.

I make an exception here for widows.

 

[cattyfan]

I make an exception here for widows.

absolutely...but as I cited in my list of statistics, only 5% of children who are being raised in a single parent home are in that position because of a parental death.

 

[ShadowMaid]

Originally posted by smothers

Many female members in the cult of Bob Enyart discourage kids from going to college or voting.

Cult?

Haha, that's not true. There's nothing wrong with going to college, as long as it's a decent college. And he doesn't discourage voting, he discourages the voting for evil people.

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by Poly

I support the right of a woman not to be looked at as a hero for raising kids without a dad so that future women won't be encouraged to do so.

Okay, there are exceptions to this rule. Such as a widow, like Nori...she's a hero!

 

[firechyld]

[post deleted because I can't be bothered with the argument it would cause.]

 

[Lighthouse]

I think you're being a coward.

 

[BChristianK]

Re: Let's talk women's rights!

Originally posted by Poly

I believe in the right of a woman to raise her own kids rather than to be made to feel that she's less of a person if she doesn't let somebody else raise them for her.

I believe in the right of a woman to see past the lie that she should try for an impossible and unattainable goal of "having it all".

I believe in the right of all women to be born.

I believe in the right of a woman not to make a fool of herself on the T.V. show "Cops" when she's trying to take authority over a 6'5" brute of a man.

Ok gals, speak out and be heard! What other rights do you support for women?

:first:

Excellent!

 

[firechyld]

I think you're being a coward

Why? It's not like it was an overly salient point. It was me stooping to the level of Poly's posts in this thread, and I simply can't be bothered with the slap fight.

 

[Lighthouse]

Stooping? I think Poly made some excellent points. She explained how she is sick of liberalism teaching that women have to be something they may not want to be. And I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment that women have the right to not be unwed mothers of illegitimate children.

 

[firechyld]

Stooping? I think Poly made some excellent points. She explained how she is sick of liberalism teaching that women have to be something they may not want to be.

... whilst ignoring the fact that "conservatism" does the exact same thing.

I feel that women have the right to choose whatever they want to be. That's the summation of my stance. My deleted post was not conveying that... it was stooping to the level of "women have the right to NOT be [insert derogatory description of Poly's stance here]".

It was unnecessary, so I deleted it.

And I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment that women have the right to not be unwed mothers of illegitimate children.

Of course they do. Did I ever dispute that?

 

[ebenz47037]

Originally posted by cattyfan

absolutely...but as I cited in my list of statistics, only 5% of children who are being raised in a single parent home are in that position because of a parental death.

Only reason I said anything is because I'm one of the 5%. :chuckle:

 

[Poly]

I believe in a woman's right to realize that she can't do everything a man can do and that this isn't a bad thing.

 

[cattyfan]

aharvey,

I addressed your concerns from yesterday in post #76.

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by Poly

I believe in a woman's right to realize that she can't do everything a man can do and that this isn't a bad thing.

Like belching for 10 seconds. What woman would want to be able to do that? :shocked:

 

[aharvey]

Originally posted by cattyfan

o.k. First let me give you some statistics. The sources are noted.

Okay, so single parenthood is common, and it sucks. Never doubted this. But don't you see a direct connection there? Well, I guess you do, but from your posts I'm guessing this is how you see it:

1. Hollywood gives impressionable young kids the idea that being a single parent is cool.

2. Therefore, following this example, impressionable young kids become parents.

3. This leads them into a terrible downward spiral into increasingly miserable circumstances, which are glossed over by the Hollywood machine.

Is that about right?

How about an alternative explanation? People in lousy situations (i.e., those broadly associated with poverty) tend not to be well educated and/or tend to do things that in the short term make their existence more bearable, even if these actions further hurt their situation in the long run. They're having babies because they're having sex, not because Hollywood says it's okay to be a single mom. They're having sex because they're either unaware of the consequences or they're willing to take the long-term risk for the sake of the short term "benefits." This tends to keep their situation bad to worse.

Originally posted by cattyfan

take a close look at the statistic I put in bold. From where do you think these gilrs are getting this message?

That's troubling, no doubt. I wonder who these girls were, where they are from. But showing that girls claim to feel a certain way is not exactly the same thing as showing how they came to feel that way! On the other hand, I'm not saying the commercialization of the media has no effect. I'm saying grains of truth do not an accurate story make.

The irony is that you blame this on the liberals, but a little reflection should make it clear that TV and movies are driven by pure profit motives, the domain of the conservative. You may think of TV as a series of programs interspersed with commercials, little necessary evils that exist only to make the programs possible. But consider an alternative view: TV programs are the very best way to ensure that people actually watch and listen to advertisements. Programs persist or fail not based directly on their morality or lack thereof, but rather on their ability to bring in the right kind of viewers. The only people who really care about numbers of viewers and viewer demographics are the advertisers selling stuff.

The conservative's favorite news programs are owned by the same folks who generate the most offensive TV shows. Go figure.

Originally posted by cattyfan

Now consider these little pieces of our society and culture:

Hmm, comedies don't usually dwell on the depressing aspects of their characters' lives? How bizarre. Potential irony check: did you like the comedies MASH, All in the Family, and Roseanne?

Originally posted by cattyfan

All of this supports my original contentions. Is that more "reporter-like" for you?

You've given evidence that being a single parent is common, that being a single parent is associated with lots of bad things, and that starlets and fictional characters don't dwell on these bad things. You then connect all three things in an unsupported, maybe unsupportable way. Let me tie Hollywood into MY hypothesis, and let's see which makes more sense: Hollywood starlets are wealthy and therefore can afford to become single parents, and a few of them do. They do not have the miserable experiences reflected in the statistics, and so no misery is reflected in how they or Hollywood present their experiences.

 

[cattyfan]

here is my original statement:

most teens today don't know who Murphy Brown is. But they do see single motherhood being demonstrated as perfectly acceptable. They see Hollywood starlets who decide it's "time" to have a baby...and they treat those children like they are accessories, no different from shoes or a briefcase. They are spoiled brats who say "I want. I want a baby this week," so instead of waiting for loving stable marriage, they go ahead and get a baby from whomever with no concern for what might be best for a child.

They see single mothers in their community with people saying "don't be judgemental. Accept them with love," instead of saying this is a sad circumstance. You can love someone and still make it clear their actions are unacceptable.

They see people pretending statistics don't show that on the whole, being raised by a single parent gives children a serious disadvantage in life.

And they see government programs expanded all the time to "help" these single mothers. They can count on a monthly check to help pay the way.

Those are the things to which Poly refers.

Part of my original statement was that single motherhood in all areas of society has become accepted. I then gave statistics and examples to back this up, inlcuding the incredible rise in the number of single mothers, both teens and adults, the portrayal in fictional movies and T.V. shows, and also in the media.

Do you think a national morning show would be discussing an unwed mother's fashion statement 30 years ago? Hollywood actresses had plenty of money 30 years ago, but you didn't have so many of them becoming unwed mothers. What is your explanation for that?

Do you really think that if society at large still treated single motherhood as something very sad, something irresponsible, and something to be ashamed of that over 50% of high school girls would think there is nothing wrong with it? Or that if single motherhood was something that was taken seriously that you would have people saying, "Well, she just needs sonething to love on her day off."

If you believe teens don't take their cues from the rich and spoiled, then you're blind...they imitate fashion from 50 Cents, Brittany Spears, and Lindsey Lohan. They try the X-treme stunts they see on MTV. They pick up on the trendy language of hip hop artists. If they didn't, magazines like Teen Cosmo, Us, Entertainment Weekly, and all the rest of the fashion, fan , and teen sport magazines wouldn't exist. There is article after artilcle with titles along the lines of "How to Dress Like Your Favorite Movie Star." Why do you think these are published?

And what you're saying is Hollywood starlets are single moms because they can afford it and poor single moms are single moms because they're poor and don't know any better.

Again, 30 years ago you wouldn't have found 53% of teen girls saying unwed motherhood is okay because back then society didn't support it. There were certainly still poor people. How do you explain the change in their perspective?

As far as "dwelling on the negative aspects," M*A*S*H* would not be a good example as they consistantly showed the blood, lost patients, and had trouble coping...the endless drinking "to forget" and Haweye having a nervous breakdown (he was treated by Dr. Sydney Freedman on several occasions before the series ender) would be prime examples.

If you are unable to see connections, perhaps you should have your reading comprehension checked.