Lesbian Methodist Minister

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Art Deco

Only if they cease acting out their homosexuality and repent of their sin. :angel:

So you're saying that your deity doesn't love sinners until after they stop sinning? :think:

We used to call that type of theology "cleanin' the fish afore ya caught 'em".

Nice and tidy perhaps if you are a fastidious sort, but basically scripturally and logically indefensible. :chuckle:

 

[jeremiah]

Originally posted by Art Deco

Genesis 9:22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's (Noah's) nakedness and told his two brothers outside.

Genesis 9:24-25 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, he said, "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers."

Genesis 9:26-27 He also said, "Blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem. May God extend the territory of Japheth; may Japheth live in the tents of Shem, and may Canaan be his slave." (end of citations}


It would appear that Noah's curse required Canaan be subservient to Shem and Japheth be it via full fledged slavery or lesser cultural status.

The curse to Canaan through Ham was great! But the curse to the descendants of Shem who did not keep the covenant was greater! read Deuteronomy 28; particularly verses 45-48.
The curse to Yeshua was the greatest. "cursed be everyone who hangeth on a tree" , because He bore "all" our sins. He was the true suffering Servant according to isaiah 53.
If one reaps a curse as the result of sin, then the person who mistreats a servant- slave also reaps a curse in accordance with the Torah, the teaching and instruction of our Creator.
I think that one who adds cruelty to another's curse is in fact more cursed and will reap much more sorrow. That is the message in Genesis 4-15 and 24.
What do you think?
I also think that the son of Ham being punished for the sin of the Father is a foreshadowing of the substitutionary sacrifice of "the" Son for us?

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by gabriel

hmmm, "God doesn't hate fags.................God loves them, which is why He hates what they are." okaaaaaayyyy


btw, my christian gay friends love god. and he loves them.

Wrong again. First I'll deal with how God loves them, but hates what they are. He hates what they are, but loves them so much that He sent His Son in order to free them from what they are.

Now, as to whether or not lthey love God, they don't. They hate Him, and spit in His face everytime they "justify" their perversion. Those who are in Christ are such because Christ is in them. And those in whom Christ dwells will not live a life contrary to who they are in Christ. They might fall, sometimes, but they will not live such a life. Why? Because Christ is living in them! Those who live a life contrary to who they would be in Christ are not in Christ, because Christ is not living in them. And they are not allowing Him to. You're friends are not Christians. There is no such thing as a homosexual Christian, for homosexuality is a sin, and Christ frees from sin.

 

[gabriel]

Originally posted by Art Deco

Only if they cease acting out their homosexuality and repent of their sin. :angel:

.... god's love would be unconditional.

 

[gabriel]

Originally posted by lighthouse

Wrong again. First I'll deal with how God loves them, but hates what they are. He hates what they are, but loves them so much that He sent His Son in order to free them from what they are.

Now, as to whether or not lthey love God, they don't. They hate Him, and spit in His face everytime they "justify" their perversion. Those who are in Christ are such because Christ is in them. And those in whom Christ dwells will not live a life contrary to who they are in Christ. They might fall, sometimes, but they will not live such a life. Why? Because Christ is living in them! Those who live a life contrary to who they would be in Christ are not in Christ, because Christ is not living in them. And they are not allowing Him to. You're friends are not Christians. There is no such thing as a homosexual Christian, for homosexuality is a sin, and Christ frees from sin.

god made them gay but is upset with them for being what he made them ..... yeah, right.

yes, they DO love god.......... "spit in His face.....?" HA!! As if any of my gay friends would deign to spit.

My gay friends ARE christians and no amount of argument from you is going to change that fact.......frankly, i think god is alot less concerned about what goes on in the privacy of one's bedroom than alot of the christians on this board are. why are so many of you christians so obsessed with other's sex lives......??????;

 

[Nineveh]

Originally posted by gabriel

why are so many of you christians so obsessed with other's sex lives......??????;

It seems the homos are the ones obsessed when they take over city parks, theme parks, have parades aimed at "celebrating" their sexuality, attempting to redefine marriage and family... They are the ones making their "privacy" public. Pardon if it makes me ill.

From what you have said on TOL so far, I don't think you know what being a Christian is. So your judgement about who is and who is not is a little lame.

 

[Ecumenicist]

Originally posted by Nineveh

It seems the homos are the ones obsessed when they take over city parks, theme parks, have parades aimed at "celebrating" their sexuality, attempting to redefine marriage and family... They are the ones making their "privacy" public. Pardon if it makes me ill.

From what you have said on TOL so far, I don't think you know what being a Christian is. So your judgement about who is and who is not is a little lame.

They have to congregate in groups because when they are
alone they get the crap kicked out of them by good Christians.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Nineveh

It seems the homos are the ones obsessed when they take over city parks, theme parks, have parades aimed at "celebrating" their sexuality, attempting to redefine marriage and family... They are the ones making their "privacy" public.

I think you're painting the entire group with the activities of a few fringe individuals...

... kind of like you do with Roman Catholic priests... :doh:

From what you have said on TOL so far, I don't think you know what being a Christian is. So your judgement about who is and who is not is a little lame.

Another variant of "No True Scotsman"... :yawn:

 

[drbrumley]

god made them gay

Sure He did!!!! That's absurd.:help: :freak:

 

[Nineveh]

Originally posted by Dave Miller

They have to congregate in groups because when they are
alone they get the crap kicked out of them by good Christians.

Dave, they congregate together to beat each other up. But anyway, I seriously doubt you have much more proof of that claim as any other you have made, so I won't ask for any this time.

Zakath,
Are you saying homos don't parade in the streets, hang out in public restrooms and take over family oriented theme parks for days? :thinks: News covers the events every year.... Oh, and homos redefining marriage and family must be a figment, too...

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by drbrumley

Sure He did!!!! That's absurd.:help: :freak:

Your response prompted me to recall a discussion my wife and I recently had...

To summarize our discussion, her questions were...

Doesn't orthodox Christian theology claim that all humans are essentially damned at either conception or birth? (c.f. Rom. 3:23 and the doctrine of Original Sin)

If so, how do Christians avoid the apparent issue that the deity "makes" them evil since all humans are essentially born damned?

From there it isn't a long step to the idea of "making" gays that way...

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Nineveh

Zakath,
Are you saying homos don't parade in the streets, hang out in public restrooms and take over family oriented theme parks for days? :thinks: News covers the events every year.... Oh, and homos redefining marriage and family must be a figment, too...

There are some behaving like spoiled children who are basking in too much attention, yes. The best solution for such people, regardless of age, is to generally ignore them so long as they are committing no crime. If the media stopped covering the events and the right-wing Christians quit making such a fuss, it might take a lot of the fun out of the events and many people would stay home...

That said, the majority of gays I know don't hang out in public restrooms or parade in the streets. They live quietly and go to work, go out to dinner periodically and take in a movie now and then. Though, like many other humans when presented with a discounted ticket to a theme park, some of them will visit on the days they can save a few bucks...

 

[One Eyed Jack]

Originally posted by gabriel

....deardelmar. i wish it were not true that the bible was used to justify the "superiority of the white race"... however, being a southerner i have heard that from white christians more than i care to admit. as a matter of fact, minutes before i was pushed backwards down a flight of stairs (a point i have mentioned on a different thread) for defending the black race i heard this "biblical justification" spew forth from a white man's mouth - a gaping, evil hole set in the middle of a face red with rage - rage because i had challenged his beloved biblical worldview.

What makes you think his worldview was Biblical?

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by gabriel

god made them gay but is upset with them for being what he made them ..... yeah, right.

If this is true, then what I said was false. However, if what I said was true, then this is false.

Hint: God didn't make anyone gay.

yes, they DO love god.......... "spit in His face.....?" HA!! As if any of my gay friends would deign to spit.

Gay people spit. However, I was using a metaphor, but I guess it was just too big for your small mind.

My gay friends ARE christians and no amount of argument from you is going to change that fact.......frankly, i think god is alot less concerned about what goes on in the privacy of one's bedroom than alot of the christians on this board are. why are so many of you christians so obsessed with other's sex lives......??????;

First off, I would like to bring everyone's attention to the fact that you used a small c.

Now, how do you define Christian? Because, the way I define it, the Biblical definition, shows that your gay friends are not Christians. In fact, they are the furthest thing from it. And they are also using the Lord's name in vain, by calling them selves Christians. That's adding sin on sin, and that's just stupid. Evenmoreso, it is vile!

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by Zakath

Your response prompted me to recall a discussion my wife and I recently had...

To summarize our discussion, her questions were...

Doesn't orthodox Christian theology claim that all humans are essentially damned at either conception or birth? (c.f. Rom. 3:23 and the doctrine of Original Sin)

If so, how do Christians avoid the apparent issue that the deity "makes" them evil since all humans are essentially born damned?

From there it isn't a long step to the idea of "making" gays that way...

If Orthodox Christianity makes that claim, then Orthodox Christianity is wrong. People are not born damned. No one is damned, until their first sin, or first denial of Christ, and His Lordship.

 

[Nineveh]

Originally posted by Zakath

There are some behaving like spoiled children who are basking in too much attention, yes. The best solution for such people, regardless of age, is to generally ignore them so long as they are committing no crime.

Right. Ignore them in the bathrooms at the city park and parading down the middle of the street.....

If the media stopped covering the events and the right-wing Christians quit making such a fuss, it might take a lot of the fun out of the events and many people would stay home...

Well, ya kint have it both ways, it's either "privacy of the bedroom" or "out of the closet in your face". But I don't agree with you. One time, once, the names and addresses of the perps in the city bathrooms were published on the front page of the local paper. That should happen at least once a year if not once a month.

That said, the majority of gays I know don't hang out in public restrooms or parade in the streets.

The minority of those you know do? And exactly how often to you tail the "majority" to know what they do and don't?

They live quietly and go to work, go out to dinner periodically and take in a movie now and then. Though, like many other humans when presented with a discounted ticket to a theme park, some of them will visit on the days they can save a few bucks...

And the skin flint "majority" all congregate in the public on "celebrate homos" day at the family oriented theme park. Thank you for making my point.

 

[Ecumenicist]

Originally posted by lighthouse

If Orthodox Christianity makes that claim, then Orthodox Christianity is wrong. People are not born damned. No one is damned, until their first sin, or first denial of Christ, and His Lordship.

Huh?

This is scripture, even I won't deny this...

We are conceived in sin, no one is good enough, etc. etc.
Children are inherently selfish, this is proof of our base
sinfulness.

If you're going to drop scripture from your worldview, then
you're definitely not talking Christianity, but something
else.

Dave

 

[Nineveh]

ATTENTION DAVE'S CONGREGANTS:

Originally posted by Dave Miller

... no one is good enough ...

Good enough for what? What should they do about it? And what happens if they don't?

 

[Crow]

Originally posted by Zakath
The so-called "curse of Ham", taught from Christian pulpits, was used to justify black slavery for centuries.

I have to wonder how they explained Moses being married to a black woman.

 

[gabriel]

Originally posted by One Eyed Jack

What makes you think his worldview was Biblical?

... he told me that it was biblical....

... the bible can be used in any fashion to justify whatever one wants to justify.