Justification of Eternal Punishment

M

marke

Well-known member
Arthur Brain said:
So...you think it's worthwhile if some of your children/grandchildren make it to Heaven while the rest end up suffering in some realm of eternal torment?

Wow. That goes beyond sick...

:vomit:
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Nonsense. Nobody would have kids if they thought it was a crime to bring kids into the world as long as sin and disease exists, considering what sin and disease may do to the kids as they grow up. God commanded Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply and yet we know many of those descendants likely went to hell for rejecting the truth revealed to them by God.

Is God sick? No, geniuses who think God is sick are the ones who are sick.
 
way 2 go

way 2 go

Well-known member
Arthur Brain said:
I can't believe anyone would think it's worthwhile for some of their own children to suffer as long as others made it to Heaven. That's just vile beyond description no matter how anyone might try to skirt around it. .
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oh-really-now.gif
 
way 2 go

way 2 go

Well-known member
Timotheos said:
You didn't even address John 3:16 and you can't because you disagree with what it says. Why don't you believe the Bible?
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your Illegitimate Totality Transfer of death again.

did you address the truths of Luke 16: ?

Luk 16:19-31
Jesus reveals
already known truths such as
consciousness of the departed,
fire for the unrepentant to stand in,
a protected place with Abraham right next to the unpleasant place,
and he caps it off with
the place of torment is historical
made known to people by
Moses and the Prophets
and if you do not believe them
you will not believe one rising from the dead.

Timotheos you admittedly do not believe,
nor will you!
 
T

Timotheos

New member
way 2 go said:
your Illegitimate Totality Transfer of death again.

did you address the truths of Luke 16: ?

Luk 16:19-31
Jesus reveals
already known truths such as
consciousness of the departed,
fire for the unrepentant to stand in,
a protected place with Abraham right next to the unpleasant place,
and he caps it off with
the place of torment is historical
made known to people by
Moses and the Prophets
and if you do not believe them
you will not believe one rising from the dead.

Timotheos you admittedly do not believe,
nor will you!
Click to expand...

I believe John 3:16 and you just admitted that you don't. Unbelievers will perish just as Jesus said, and it looks like you will not believe this even tbnough Jesus rose from the dead. You are very stubborn. Why don't you believe the Bible?
 
R

rstrats

Active member
When bringing up Luke 16:19-31, the first thing that needs to be agreed upon is whether or not it is a parable. Any discussion before doing that will have the discussers reading from different pages.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
rstrats said:
When bringing up Luke 16:19-31, the first thing that needs to be agreed upon is whether or not it is a parable. Any discussion before doing that will have the discussers reading from different pages.
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That leaves you with a dilemma, a problem to squirm your way out of, doesn't it? Jesus gives out names in this this account of things "as they eternally existed", as no parable is an account of any sort and since there are no names mentioned in them that it would make them seem so. All of Jesus' parables needed to be explained. Why not this one, as you believe it to be?

But then, I fully realize I am replying to a "blind man" . . . who is without excuse.
 
T

Timotheos

New member
Cross Reference said:
That leaves you with a dilemma, a problem to squirm your way out of, doesn't it? Jesus gives out names in this this account of things as they are as no parable is an account of any sort since there are no names mentioned in them. But then, I fully realize I am replying to a "blind man" . . . who is without excuse.
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There is no rule that states that a parable can never contain a name.
In the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man, the name "Lazarus" is used. It is only if you blindly assume that the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is not a parable that you can even say that no parable ever contains a name. That is begging the question, since you have not proven that the parable of Lazarus is not a parable. "But then, I fully realize I am replying to a "blind man" . . . who is without excuse." As am I.

Instead of just assuming that you are right, why don't you accept what the Bible says?
 
lifeisgood

lifeisgood

New member
Timotheos said:
It is not logical to have children if you really do believe that there is a 90% chance that they will be tortured alive in Hell forever.
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Christ Jesus provided the solution for that.

The 'torture' does not come from God, but from those who are in hell themselves now realizing what they have rejected and wishing they hadn't.

All who are in eternal hell --- be it Satan, his minions, human beings --- rejected God's only way of Salvation and now realize their mistake. Too late though.
 
T

Timotheos

New member
lifeisgood said:
Christ Jesus provided the solution for that.
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Jesus said "The road is wide that leads to destruction and there are many that find it."

If you really believe that "destruction" means "eternal torture in hell", then there is a better than even chance that anyone who is born will be tortured alive forever in hell. If you really believed that most people who are born will be tortured alive forever in hell, you wouldn't have had any children.
(Unless you are selfish and heartless)
 
B

Ben Masada

New member
rstrats said:
When bringing up Luke 16:19-31, the first thing that needs to be agreed upon is whether or not it is a parable. Any discussion before doing that will have the discussers reading from different pages.
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There is no doubt about being the "Richman and Lazarus" a parable of Jesus because Jesus was a Jew and, Hell-fire does not exist according to Judaism. Then, the point of the parable is not hell-fire but the endless character of "Moses" aka the Law. Besides, there is no justification of eternal punishment because the only thing eternal about man is death. (Luke 16:29-31)
 
freelight

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Love's Will..........

Love's Will..........

lifeisgood said:
Christ Jesus provided the solution for that.

The 'torture' does not come from God, but from those who are in hell themselves now realizing what they have rejected and wishing they hadn't.
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There is naturally the bearing of the consequences of one's own choices and actions by the universal law of cause/effect (action/karma)...and free will, yet there is also by the same principle the ability to repent and return to God as long as that ability and opportunity exists at any point in time.

All who are in eternal hell --- be it Satan, his minions, human beings --- rejected God's only way of Salvation and now realize their mistake. Too late though.
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I've already provided info. Here and elsewhere about the word 'aionios' which pertains to an 'age'(aion),...The term indicates a period of time, a dispensation, therefore it is not 'eternal' unless the adjective is describing God himself or some attribute of Deity. Everything else has a duration, lasting a particular age, purpose and time....and then that 'aion' ends. So, 'hell' (however defined) is not eternal, much less ECT whether it be self-imposed or by divine decree.

As far as it being 'too late' for a soul to repent, I wouldn't put such a restriction upon a soul's ability, neither could I limit or circumscribe infinite love. Infinite love goes beyond any finite limitation or assumption and it's will is always life. Therefore as I've said elsewhere, I believe as long as a soul has the power(ability) to repent, return to Source, it can be saved and go on to fulfill its life-purpose. Love wills it.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Ben Masada said:
There is no doubt about being the "Richman and Lazarus" a parable of Jesus because Jesus was a Jew and, Hell-fire does not exist according to Judaism. Then, the point of the parable is not hell-fire but the endless character of "Moses" aka the Law. Besides, there is no justification of eternal punishment because the only thing eternal about man is death. (Luke 16:29-31)
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Another Satanic lying disturbance from the pit.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Timotheos said:
How is that? Since the serpent from the garden said "Surely you will not die" isn't the doctrine that man can die NOT Satanic? Once again you are completely wrong.
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Not a chance ever, of being COMPLETELY wrong.

You however, have taken the position of the unlearned who does not understand what death was meant to convey in its fullest sense as God had no reason for Adam to know more concerning the full ramification of what dying would entail had Adam failed which, in the afterwrds, God revealed it all to him and her. For the immediate after God gifted him with all that He did, Physical death was easiest to understand and was sufficient irrespective of Adam not knowing when but believing it would be immediate or near immediate. Enter the lie of Satan reinforced by the fact Eve was still alive.
 
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