btw, every theory can be blown. sometimes reading from the paper Bible in quiet comfort gives new revelation and insight; new eyes - for me anyway
That verse also does not say that PEOPLE will be tormented day and night forever, it says "the devil, the beast, and the false prophet".
But you asked me where the Bible says that the wicked will be destroyed. No problem, I can do that. Phillipians 3:19 (as one example, there are MANY MORE!) says "their end is destruction".
Now it is up to you to explain how someone whose end is destruction actually has no end and is NOT destroyed, but tortured alive forever instead of being destroyed.
A false prophet isnt a person in your world, it also says those that worship them, at any rate it shows your theory of annihilation false since they are all thrown in the same place and describes daily and nightly torment forever and ever.
If everlasting life is forever and ever, so is that, like it or not.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
I don't get this at all. Why would your "protection" require the eternal torment of fallible human beings such as yourself in order for you to be 'safe'? If they were that much of a 'threat' to your security there'd surely be a way that could have any such people 'neutralized' without having them in a state of interminable inescapable pain, because there's nothing loving about that.
As to the latter, that very word doesn't denote 'eternal' itself but an unspecified duration of time as has been done to bits in the battle royale between Pastor Kevin and Logos X some years back.
You keep coming back to everlasting life being forever, I agree with that and I already explained why that doesn't indicate that there is everlasting torture in hell. Don't you remember that I explained this to you? Do I have to explain it again? No Problem, one of the fruits of the Spirit is patience, so I can patiently explain it to you all over again.
Eternal life is indeed forever, it is life that lasts forever. Destruction is also forever. It lasts forever. Being destroyed is a punishment that lasts forever, because there isn't ever a time when the person who has been destroyed will become "undestroyed". So just because the Bible says that the righteous receive eternal life, that doesn't mean that those who receive eternal punish will receive eternal life in hell being tortured forever. In fact, if you read Matthew 25:46 carefully, you will see that only ONE of the groups receives eternal life, the other doesn't. In order to be tortured alive forever, a person would have to be ALIVE forever, and those who do not receive eternal life are not alive forever. That alone proves that your theory is wrong.
Thanks Chrysotom!
I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
Last edited:
I disagree, but in either case the specified amount of time meaning is the same be it "eternal" life or "eternal" suffering, however its looked at - the time frame is the same for both.
What about Revelation 20:15? "And whosoever was not found written
in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." That's the same place
Satan and his angels will be cast. And, there's nothing there
that states that, those who are cast into the Lake of Fire will be
annihilated. Those people will suffer the same as Satan and his
angels.
If the wicked do not wish to endure pain they should stop inflicting pain upon others.
why do they do that?
M
Man.0
Guest
Totton, do you believe in eternal punishment?
That is the annihilation position. Most real Christians do not agree with that view; it is a big cop-out. She does not need you to explain false doctrine.
why do me & you do it ? one for the ages Totton
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
What do you mean by 'wicked' exactly? Not all atheists, agnostics, people of other beliefs etc go around inflicting pain just as not all Christian's don't, so I'm not getting your point.
true, that's why i can hold NOTHING against any honest, righteous person who respects others and tries to do right. most folks know right from wrong no matter if they believe in any god or anything. evil is evil period.
no matter what faith or non-faith a person has, it depends on how they live and treat others -
John 13:34-35 KJV -
no matter what faith or non-faith a person has, it depends on how they live and treat others -
John 13:34-35 KJV -
I have to because Jesus said "these shall depart into eternal punishment"
You and I see only the outer form, God sees the inner man, now I can't even begin to imagine what God sees when a fully grown man attack and murders a child, when he sees two men or two women gratifying each other...what a lying deceitful person looks like on the inside.
God sees, I trust His judgement.
But we repented...we sorrow...we seek renewal...we long for Christ in the inner person.
The point is this, all these things belong to the present fallen state of mankind...God is going to judge it. Before He comes to judge He has set a time during which men and women have a chance to reconcile with God and be saved. It is called the age of grace.
We are actively working or seeking to promote God's programn of reconciliation...you are actively opposed to it.
Tens of thousands of murderers, rapists kidnappers, thieves etc have received reconciliation and been saved, their sins have been washed away, they have received a new life, a new clean heart
YOU could receive this right where you are sitting, it is but a prayer away, a "yes Lord I receive your new life" prayed sincerely.
God will judge with equity...that is He will be perfectly fair.