Justification by Faith !

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Potter's Clay

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beloved57 said:
God made wicked men for the day of evil. Prov 16:4

[FONT=&quot]The [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot] hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.[/FONT]
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You are totally right, and I appreciate that you stand up for Biblical truths. I just wanted to clarify that while God created all things, he did not create evil. RC Sproul has a great video explaining how evil is "nothing" since it has no being. Therefore, it can't be considered a "thing."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ir6pKEV0RQ


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beloved57

beloved57

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Potter's Clay

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beloved57 said:
No harm done. Are you interested in discussing the OP ?
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I'll be glad to discuss the topic at hand. While I think we agree, I'll just add to your OP by bringing up John 3. Notice in this chapter, a person is born again before "believe" is ever mentioned. Furthermore, "born again" is compared to the wind. How is this relevant? We don't have control over the wind anymore than we have control over our physical or spiritual birth. While Arminian doctrine proposes that faith is prerequisite for salvation, I cannot find evidence of an unregenerate man believing in God before being born again. Furthermore, I don't see how that is logically possible as the natural man is dead in trespasses and sin. Therefore, belief has to justify one's salvation instead of belief being a condition for salvation.


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beloved57

beloved57

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Potter's Clay said:
I'll be glad to discuss the topic at hand. While I think we agree, I'll just add to your OP by bringing up John 3. Notice in this chapter, a person is born again before "believe" is ever mentioned. Furthermore, "born again" is compared to the wind. How is this relevant? We don't have control over the wind anymore than we have control over our physical or spiritual birth. While Arminian doctrine proposes that faith is prerequisite for salvation, I cannot find evidence of an unregenerate man believing in God before being born again. Furthermore, I don't see how that is logically possible as the natural man is dead in trespasses and sin. Therefore, belief has to justify one's salvation instead of belief being a condition for salvation.


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Ok, I agree with this. So what about the points I made in the OP on what Justification by Faith is, and why ?
 
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Potter's Clay

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beloved57 said:
Ok, I agree with this. So what about the points I made in the OP on what Justification by Faith is, and why ?
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Are you asking about the #1 and #2 meanings behind justification by faith? I would lean toward #1 because to the best of my knowledge faith is described as a part of the justification process. On the surface, I don't know if I totally agree with #2 because how would someone already be justified before faith occurs?


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beloved57

beloved57

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Justification by Faith Its a promised blessing !

To Justify by Faith individuals is a Spiritual Blessing God has promised to do. Lets look at Rom 3:30

Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

The Promise here is that the One God Shall Justify the circumcision[jew] by Faith and uncircumcision[Gentile] through Faith. The word shall means that God will perform this by Hs word of Promise and Power !

Gal 3:8

And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

So we see that the uncircumcised heathen Gentile are Justified through Faith based upon a Gospel Promise God made to Abraham saying:

"In thee shall all nations be blessed."

The religion of man teaches that Justification by Faith is a product of the will of man, but thats false, its the result of the Promise, Power , and Grace of God, for it has been written " The Just shall live by Faith"
 
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beloved57

beloved57

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potters clay

because how would someone already be justified before faith occurs?
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I have several threads on that very question. The answer is easy, they were Justified by the blood of Christ before faith occured. Rom 5:9

9 [FONT=&quot]Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.[/FONT]
 
Nanja

Nanja

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beloved57 said:
Justification by Faith Its a promised blessing !

To Justify by Faith individuals is a Spiritual Blessing God has promised to do. Lets look at Rom 3:30

[FONT="][B]Seeing it is[U] one God[/U][/B], [B]which [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][B][U]shall[/U] [B]justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.[/B][/B]

The Promise here is that the One God [U][B]Shall Justify [/B][/U]the circumcision[jew] by Faith and uncircumcision[Gentile] through Faith. The word shall means that God will perform this by Hs word of Promise and Power !

Gal 3:8

[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]And the scripture, foreseeing that God would [/FONT]justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

So we see that the uncircumcised heathen Gentile are Justified through Faith based upon a Gospel Promise God made to Abraham saying:

"In thee shall all nations be blessed."

The religion of man teaches that Justification by Faith is a product of the will of man, but thats false, its the result of the Promise, Power , and Grace of God, for it has been written " The Just shall live by Faith"
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Amen Brother!

Justification by Faith as spoken of in Gal. 3:8 is a Promised Blessing exclusively to Abraham's Seed, the Chosen Seed of Christ Gal. 3:16, 29: The Election of Grace Eph. 1:4-7, whether jew or Gentile, solely based on the Work that Christ has accomplished on their behalf to Save them from sin 2 Cor. 5:21; whereby they were Justified by the Blood of Christ before God even while being enemies Rom. 5:9-10, by His Obedience unto death; fulfilling the Law Perfectlly on their behalf Rom. 5:19b.

Gal. 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
 
beloved57

beloved57

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Nanja said:
Amen Brother!

Justification by Faith as spoken of in Gal. 3:8 is a Promised Blessing exclusively to Abraham's Seed, the Chosen Seed of Christ Gal. 3:16, 29: The Election of Grace Eph. 1:4-7, whether jew or Gentile, solely based on the Work that Christ has accomplished on their behalf to Save them from sin 2 Cor. 5:21; whereby they were Justified by the Blood of Christ before God even while being enemies Rom. 5:9-10, by His Obedience unto death; fulfilling the Law Perfectlly on their behalf Rom. 5:19b.

Gal. 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
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Amen Sister Nanja !
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

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beloved57 said:
Gal 3:24

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified*by*faith.

Now what is it to be Justified by Faith? It's one or two things #1 Its to be Justified by His Faith/Faithfulness, meaning Jesus Christ, its the Faith of Jesus Christ. #2 It's when that Justification by Christ is declared or pronounced in the conscience of the already Justified.

It's never meaning that faith is a condition we must act in order to get Justified before God, cause that overthrows Justification before God based solely upon the Person and Work of Jesus Christ , what He did for the Justified. Then it becomes justification by our works, a false gospel!

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I'm trying to understand your perspective and if I missed your point, please correct me.

When I read the bible and it tells us of those who fall short, it appears to me that it’s based on how they act. Here’s one example:

2 Thes. 3:13 As for you, brothers, do not grow weary in doing good. 14 If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.

This passage tells us how we act determines what we will reap.
Gal. 6:7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. 8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

When Paul tells Christians, “we will reap, if we do not give up”. That language sounds to me like we have a choice in who’s will we obey, God’s or our own.

1 Sam. 15:22 And Samuel said,
“Has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices,
as in obeying the voice of the Lord?
Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,

In obeying God’s will, we are justified by Christ’s blood and not our works.
 
beloved57

beloved57

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turbosixx said:
I'm trying to understand your perspective and if I missed your point, please correct me.

When I read the bible and it tells us of those who fall short, it appears to me that it’s based on how they act. Here’s one example:

2 Thes. 3:13 As for you, brothers, do not grow weary in doing good. 14 If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.

This passage tells us how we act determines what we will reap.
Gal. 6:7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. 8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

When Paul tells Christians, “we will reap, if we do not give up”. That language sounds to me like we have a choice in who’s will we obey, God’s or our own.

1 Sam. 15:22 And Samuel said,
“Has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices,
as in obeying the voice of the Lord?
Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,

In obeying God’s will, we are justified by Christ’s blood and not our works.
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If you want to understand my point then lets in detail discuss the OP.
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

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beloved57 said:
If you want to understand my point then lets in detail discuss the OP.
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It appears to me the OP presents a false dilemma. You only give two choices which, at my current understanding, are not correct.
#1, if it's based on the faith of Jesus, then everyone is saved.
#2, if it's pronounced on the already justified, then they never needed it to begin with.

I choose #3, the one you said it can never be.
Acts 2:40 And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
 
beloved57

beloved57

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turbosixx said:
It appears to me the OP presents a false dilemma. You only give two choices which, at my current understanding, are not correct.
#1, if it's based on the faith of Jesus, then everyone is saved.
#2, if it's pronounced on the already justified, then they never needed it to begin with.

I choose #3, the one you said it can never be.
Acts 2:40 And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
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Are you ready to review my points in the OP ?
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

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beloved57 said:
I posted it. What did you read ?
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If that's your perspective, it doesn't make sense to me.

The old law was a shadow of the new law. We are to live according to the law of faith and if we do not, we will not be saved.

1 Cor. 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

If we hold fast to the word, not if Jesus holds fast.
 
beloved57

beloved57

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turbosixx said:
If that's your perspective, it doesn't make sense to me.

The old law was a shadow of the new law. We are to live according to the law of faith and if we do not, we will not be saved.

1 Cor. 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

If we hold fast to the word, not if Jesus holds fast.
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Theres no reason for us to continue with dialog .
 
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