It is really very simple Keypurr. A creator cannot be a creation.
Jesus is God.
- Thread starter jzeidler
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It is really very simple Keypurr. A creator cannot be a creation.
keypurr
Well-known member
Notice your last verse, last line.
The Lord God has SENT me. Christ was sent by his God. How can you think Christ is God when he has a God.
You just killed your own arguement.
keypurr
Well-known member
Bad assumption friend, God can delegate power to any one he wishes to.
Did you forget that the Father was pleased that his son had his fullness?
That means his is Son is a form of his Father, but yet not his Father. His son took the form of man by residing in Jesus, the body PREPARED for him. The true son is a spirit. Jesus is the pure flesh son of God.
Mat_28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
marhig
Well-known member
I'll let Jesus answer that for himself
John 10
Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Jesus answered them,*Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
marhig
Well-known member
Yes, who gave Jesus all the power? if Jesus is God, he wouldn't have needed to be given power. He received his power from God.
As he said, without the father, I can do nothing!
beameup
New member
There were no Greek or Hebrew scholars on the New World Translation team.
It was strictly a "copy-and-paste" excerpts from any of the many versions that already existed.
They used the KJV for about 100 years, but it presented too many "problems" for their anti-trinitarian theology.
beameup
New member
Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Cross Reference
New member
When was the beginning? Can you answer that?
Obviously you believe it to be finite so, when was it?
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
And who might that be?
"And Y-H-W-H God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."
Gen 2:7
Therefore: "Ignorant are those who carry about idols of wood,
who pray to gods that cannot save.
21 Declare what is to be, present it—
let them take counsel together.
Who foretold this long ago,
who declared it from the distant past?
Was it not I, Y-H-W-H?
And there is no God apart from me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
there is none but me. 22 “Turn to me and be saved,
all you ends of the earth;
for I am God, and there is no other.
23 By myself I have sworn,
my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow;
by me every tongue will swear.
24 They will say of me, ‘In Y-H-W-H alone
are deliverance and strength.’”
All who have raged against him
will come to him and be put to shame.
25 But all the descendants of Israel
will find deliverance in Y-H-W-H
and will make their boast in him."
Isaiah 45
"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
No, that is not written. I might look so in bad translations, but it isnt' written there.
"You are all gods", the word translated with "gods" is "elohiem".
What we call "God", is in the Tanach represented with the word "elohiem", which means "powers". This because God is the source of all powers.
But the word "elohiem" is also used for judges, leaders, mighty men, etc.
In Exodus 4:16 God says to Moses that he wil be for an elohiem to his brother Aharon. This didn't mean that Moses would be God, and that Aharon was going to worship him, but it meant that Moses would be his leader.
In Exodus 21:1-6 is spoken about a slave who, after his normal period of servitude has expired, does not want to leave his master. The owner must then bring him to the court, where the slave makes a statement that he doesn't want to leave his master, and that he will serve him until the day he dies. Many translations say that the master must bring the slave to "the gods", because in the Hebrew it is writtten that the master must bring him to "the elohiem". But the KJV says there correctly that the master must bring him to the judges.
So it should be clear by now that "elohiem" does not exlusively mean "God", but can also mean "leader", "mighty men", "judges". and other things.
The the men in Psalm 82 are not gods is obvious because they'll "die like men".
"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19
marhig
Well-known member
Your right we're not Gods, no men are God's. But those who have the spirit of God in them show God through them and Jesus isn't God either. And he's telling them so. But he was in the express image of God because he denied his fleshly nature and lived by the will of God.
Jesus didn't say he was God, they tried to say that he made himself as God. But Jesus corrected them and said, because I say I am the son of God.
You say that Jesus deserved to die because he made himself God, and your forefathers had every right to have him put to death for blasphemy
But, here's their accusation, they never accused him of saying he was God, but wanted to kill him for saying he was the son of God. Going directly against their own law of thou shalt not kill!
John 19
The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God
You yourself have said the mighty men were sons of God, should they have been killed also?
beameup
New member
What... You don't even know your own Torah?
How about showing a little "respect" for The Holy One of Israel.
I could go on and on and on...
lifeisgood
New member
Another one that does not read for understanding.
The ONE who was sent said:
From the FIRST (from the BEGINNING) I (the ONE SENT) have not spoken in secret, from the time it took place (when it ALL happened), I (the ONE SENT) was there. And now the Lord GOD (the Father) has sent Me (the Son), and His Spirit." Isaiah 48:12-16
Imagine that, keypurr, He, who spoke NOT in secret and was there at the BEGINNING when EVERYTHING happened manifested Himself in the flesh.
Now, you have all the right to continue to worship your twice possessed lord, who came to you out of the blue from the very pit of hell and you continue to believe this twice possessed lord who separated you from Jesus the Christ and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary.
There's still time, keypurr, to come back to God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) for you are still breathing.
Phil. 2:10 --- That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth
NOT your twice possessed lord.
lifeisgood
New member
Amen!
Isaiah 48:12-16 - Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I am also the last. Surely My hand founded the earth, and My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. Assemble, all of you, and listen! Who among them has declared these things? [Yahweh] or the LORD loves him; he shall carry out His good pleasure on Babylon, and His arm shall be against the Chaldeans. I, even I, have spoken; indeed I have called him, I have brought him, and He will make his ways successful. Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, from the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit."
lifeisgood
New member
Another one denying the deity of Jesus the Christ; therefore, rejecting Him and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary for their salvation, working their fingers off trying to present the works of their hands which have already been rejected for the Father will NOT accept anything else but His Son and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary.
marhig
Well-known member
I quoted what Jesus said, not my own words.
And I'm not saved by my works, but through Christ, and by the spirit of God within my heart. Without him and his holy son Jesus Christ showing me the way I'd be dead in my sins.
I don't believe that Jesus died on a cross so we can carry on sinning. I believe that we are saved by his life, just as it says in the Bible.
Romans 5
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
lifeisgood
New member
Absolutely God can delegate power, however, God has NEVER delegated His Deity to anybody.
Do you realize what that 'fullness' is. No wonder a body had to be prepared to contain the fullness of the Godhead.
And you continue to worship your twice possessed lord who came to you from the very pit of hell.
Jesus the Christ is in Heaven now where all will be able to see the marks on His hands and feet and side so that there will be no excuse when He says 'I never knew you' to those who reject Him and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary.
Amen! Not only had He the power in heaven but now he also has the power on earth. What an awesome God and Lord and Savior I serve!