Jesus is God.

[Elia]

By the way, you say that Jesus was good at cursing the Jewish scholars, what do you think about them wanting kill him?

Bs"d

Just doing the law of God. He claimed to be God, and he wanted to be honoured like God.

That is leading people into idolatry, and that is a sin that carries on it the death penalty:

“If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’—which you have not known—‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after Y-H-W-H your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him. 5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of bondage, to entice you from the way in which Y-H-W-H your God commanded you to walk. So you shall put away the evil from your midst.

6 “If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, 7 of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, 8 you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; 9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 So all Israel shall hear and fear, and not again do such wickedness as this among you."
Deut 13

What about the commandant thou shalt not kill?

God says that some sinners have to be killed.

Do they sound like they belonged to God?

Yes.

Your so adamant that everyone should obey the laws of God, what about these men that plotted to kill Jesus? We're they right before God?

Yes, somebody who brings a new god, another than Y-H-W-H, has to be killed.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15

 

[beameup]

Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. -- Exodus 24:9-10

you did not see any form on the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb -- Deut 4:15

 

[Elia]

So do you believe that you should stone other people to death?

Bs"d

I believe that some sinners deserve death by stoning, just like it is written in the law of God.

And do you obey this law?

Because of the political situation, and because we don't have now the high court, we cannot do it now.

Have you read the gospels?

Yes.

Go and read Matthew 5 and then see if Jesus should have been stoned death.

He introduced a new man-god that nobody had ever heard of before, and enticed people to worship him; that is a sin that carries upon it the death penalty.

He was full of love and forgiveness but all as you have is hardness towards him, but whether you like it or not, he is the Christ

He was not the christ = messiah, because he didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies.

Everybody can claim to be the messiah, and many did, but only the messiah can fulfil the messianic prophecies.


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

 

[Elia]

Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. -- Exodus 24:9-10

Bs"d

They saw a vision, not God himself.


"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5

 

[marhig]

Bs"d

Just doing the law of God. He claimed to be God, and he wanted to be honoured like God.

That is leading people into idolatry, and that is a sin that carries on it the death penalty:

“If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’—which you have not known—‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after Y-H-W-H your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him. 5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of bondage, to entice you from the way in which Y-H-W-H your God commanded you to walk. So you shall put away the evil from your midst.

6 “If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, 7 of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, 8 you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; 9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 So all Israel shall hear and fear, and not again do such wickedness as this among you."
Deut 13



God says that some sinners have to be killed.



Yes.



Yes, somebody who brings a new god, another than Y-H-W-H, has to be killed.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15

He never ever claimed to be God, he said he was the son of God. If you read the gospels you can see that Jesus relied on God always. He even said that God was his God, he prayed to God. Why would he pray to God if he was God?

When the pharasees at that time said that he made himself God he corrected them and said, because I say that I am the son of God?

He's not God Elia, religion had corrupted the scriptures. Men sat around a table 300 years after Jesus and tried to work out who he was. They came up with the trinity, it started with just God and Jesus at first, but later the holy ghost was added. It's a false teaching that been widely spread, there is only one God, the almighty God.

I don't believe it's right to kill anyone, if we have the spirit in our hearts, we can slay with the sword, which is the word God. Thou shall not kill, means just that!



Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

 

[marhig]

Bs"d

I believe that some sinners deserve death by stoning, just like it is written in the law of God.



Because of the political situation, and because we don't have now the high court, we cannot do it now.



Yes.



He introduced a new man-god that nobody had ever heard of before, and enticed people to worship him; that is a sin that carries upon it the death penalty.



He was not the christ = messiah, because he didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies.

Everybody can claim to be the messiah, and many did, but only the messiah can fulfil the messianic prophecies.


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

So you would actually stand there and stone someone to death?

 

[beameup]

Bs"d
They saw a vision, not God himself.

You make a mockery of God's Word the Torah.

And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of YHWH am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? And the captain of YHWH's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so. -- Joshua 5:13-15

 

[Caino]

Bs"d

I see that you are making up things out of thin air.


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

"Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, 'From ancient times your fathers lived beyond the River, namely, Terah, the father of Abraham and the father of Nahor, and they served other gods. 3Then I took your father Abraham from beyond the River, and led him through all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his descendants and gave him Isaac.....

Abram was raised in his fathers religion before putting faith and trust in Melchizedeks teachings about El Elyon.

 

[patrick jane]

"Thus says Y-H-W-H: ‘In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”
Zech 8:23
Ex 4:21

I'll never seek out a jew "in those days"

 

[Caino]

Bs"d

On the contrary; he preached that GOD IS ONE:

"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the first of all?" Jesus answered, "The first is, `Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, THE LORD IS ONE; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that HE IS ONE, and there is no other but he; and to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."" Mark 12:28-34 Revised Standard Version

“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version

"Here is the most important one. Moses said, 'Israel, listen to me. The Lord is our God. The Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one." New International Readers Version

"Jesus answered: Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One." .... "You have correctly said that He is One," Holman Christian Standard Bible

"Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one:" .... "thou hast well said that he is one;" American Standard Version

"Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one." New King James Version

"Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one" .... "You have truly said that he is one," English Standard Version

"Jesus said, "The first in importance is, 'Listen, Israel: The Lord your God is one;" .... "A wonderful answer, Teacher! So lucid and accurate—that God is one" The Message

"‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... “You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version





"Now an intermediary implies more than one; but GOD IS ONE." Gal 3:20 Revised Standard Version

"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but GOD IS ONE" King James Version

"A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but GOD IS ONE." New International Version

"Now an intermediary implies more than one, but GOD IS ONE." English Standard Version

"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one; but GOD IS ONE." American Standard Version

"and the mediator is not of one, and GOD IS ONE" Youngs Literal Translation





"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." James 2:19 Revised Standard Version

"thou -- thou dost believe that GOD IS ONE; thou dost well," Youngs Literal translation

"Thou believest that GOD IS ONE; thou doest well:" American Standard Version

"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Holman Christian Standard Bible.

"*Thou* believest that GOD IS ONE. Thou doest well." Darby Translation.

"It’s good that you believe that GOD IS ONE." Common English Bible

"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." English Standard Version

"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Amplified Bible

"You believe that GOD IS ONE You do well;" New American Standard Bible



So even the NT teaches clearly that God is ONE.

שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד

Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.​

And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deut 6:4-9

The Jews until this day fulfill this commandment. Every morning they put upon their arm and upon their forehead their phylacteries, (prayer belts) that consist of black straps with black leather cubes, that contain parchment upon which is written this Biblical text that says that God is one. Upon the doorposts of the houses of the religious Jews there are small boxes or containers that also contain parchment upon which is written that God is one. During the morning and evening prayers the above text is recited which says that God is one.

Y-H-W-H, the one and only God who is one.

Beside Him there is no God, no Buddha, no Christ, no David Koresh; NOBODY.

Whoever worships anything or anybody else than Y-H-W-H is an IDOL WORSHIPPER.

To see the Son is to see the Father. God gave of his divine nature in creating creators who in turn create sons and daughters. We are all sons and daughters of God.

Holy men wrote the scripture giving their speculation about Gods dealings with the world. Petrifying those writings into the actual Words of God have stunted the growth of sincere believers and lead to a grossly distorted historical worldview. In addition to leading to the rejection of the original gospel and the creator Son incarnate, this sad development leaves people incapable of learning anything new.

 

[beameup]

Satan pulled a really "slick trick" during the reign of Nimrod by introducing mankind to a multitude of gods. He knew that there was only ONE God eternally existent in 3, which later proved an ongoing and seemingly unsolvable dilemma to convey. Now add to that the true nature of God being unfathomable love for mankind. Then add the extreme effort He had to put into reconciling mankind with His Holiness in order for man to have an intimate and eternal relationship with Him. However, there are abundant "clues" within the Old Testament, so that any Jew rejecting the information contained therein must expect extreme measures for denying the truths revealed through the Law and Prophets.

 

[lifeisgood]

Bs"d

We don't reject the suffering servant, we ARE the suffering servant.

Really? So Israel is punished FOR the transgression of MY people Israel and Israel is the Suffering Servant? Got it.

So, according to Isaiah 53:8, the prophet says that the sufferer was punished FOR “the transgression of MY people.”

Who are the people of Isaiah? Israel.

So, the sufferer of Isaiah 53 suffered FOR Israel. How then can he BE Israel?

You should believe your Suffering Servant and what He did in your place so that you can come to Y-H-W-H.

 

[Elia]

You make a mockery of God's Word the Torah.

Bs"d

God cannot be seen.


"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5

 

[Elia]

Satan pulled a really "slick trick" during the reign of Nimrod by introducing mankind to a multitude of gods. He knew that there was only ONE God eternally existent in 3,

Bs"d

No, he didn't know that. The "ONE God eternally existent in 3" didn't exist, doesn't exist, and will not exist.

The trinity is an idolatrous teaching made up by the RC church, in order to cover up the fact that they worship two gods, a "God the Father", and a "god the son".

The only God that exist is the one and only true God WHO IS ONE; Y-H-W-H. Besides Him there is no God:

Deuteronomy 4:35 “You were shown these things so that you might know that Y-H-W-H is God; besides him there is no other.”

Deuteronomy 4:39 “Acknowledge and take to heart this day that Y-H-W-H is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other.”

II Samuel 7:22 “How great you are, O Sovereign Y-H-W-H! There is no one like you, and there is no God but you, as we have heard with our own ears.”

I Kings 8:60 “so that all the peoples of the earth may know that Y-H-W-H is God and that there is no other.”

I Chronicles 17:20 “There is no one like you, O Y-H-W-H, and there is no God but you, as we have heard with our own ears.”

II Chronicles 6:14 “O Y-H-W-H, God of Israel, there is no God like you in heaven or on earth.”

Nehemiah 9:6 “You alone are Y-H-W-H.”

Isaiah 45:21-23 “You are my witnesses," declares Y-H-W-H, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me."

Isaiah 44:6 “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.”

Isaiah 45:5-6 “I am Y-H-W-H , and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me, so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides me."

Isaiah 45:21-23 “Declare what is to be, present it- let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, Y-H-W-H? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.”

Joel 2:27 “Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am Y-H-W-H your God, and that there is no other;”



Exodus 20:1-3 “And God spoke all these words: "I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME.”

 

[Elia]

Really? So Israel is punished FOR the transgression of MY people Israel and Israel is the Suffering Servant? Got it.

Bs"d

That doesn't suprise me. It really is very simple.

So, according to Isaiah 53:8, the prophet says that the sufferer was punished FOR “the transgression of MY people.”

Who are the people of Isaiah? Israel.

Totally correct.

So, the sufferer of Isaiah 53 suffered FOR Israel. How then can he BE Israel?

Well, the question should be: How could it NOT be Israel???

Who else should suffer for the sins of Israel than Israel???

God??? You think that's justice?? God suffering for the sins of Israel??

You think God cannot forgive Israel before He lets Himself be tortured to death by His creatures???

Here is an excerpt of my Isaiah 53 page, HERE to be found:

"When we fill in the Jewish people in Isaiah 53, everything falls into place. Isaiah 52:14; “As many were astonished at thee, his visage was so marred, more than any man, “ In Isaiah’s time the Jewish people had already been abused by many nations, see Isaiah 1:1-7; “Why should ye be stricken anymore? Ye will revolt more and more; the whole head is sick and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it, but wounds and bruises, and putrifying sores; they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment. Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire; your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.”
Also here does the prophet Isaiah personify the people of Israel as a man who is stricken by God: From the sole of the foot up to the head covered with sores.

When we fill in the Jewish people in this text,: "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and with his stripes we are healed." we also have to ask: who is the 'our' and the 'we'? Here is the prophet Isaiah speaking as a part of the Jewish people. So also the 'we' points to the Jewish people. Now in stead of the metaphor, 'the servant', let's fill in the Jewish people and see what we get: But [the Jewish people] were wounded for the transgressions of [the Jewish people], [the Jewish people] were bruised for the iniquities of [the Jewish people], the chastisement of the peace of [the Jewish people] was upon [the Jewish people], and with the stripes of [the Jewish people] [the Jewish people] are healed.

Here we see that the Jewish people were punished for the sins of the Jewish people, just like in Isaiah 1:4-9. Also there are the Jewish people punished for the rebellious sins of the Jewish people. And that is what happens, when we sin we get punished, and through the punishment the sin is erased. This is a much more normal view upon sin and punishment than to think that when we sin God gets or was punished for it by being nailed to a cross. And those are the hard facts; everybody has to take his own responsibility, you cannot shove it of unto God or anybody else."

The concept of the Jewish people being punished for the sins of the Jewish people is something we see all over the Tanach.

The concept of God needing to suffer and be murdered by His people before He can forgive them is an absurd concept which is NOWHERE to be found anywhere in the Tanach.

So how could it be anyway else than that the Jews are punished for the sins of the Jews??


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

 

[Elia]

I'll never seek out a jew "in those days"

Bs"d

Hanging on to your evil ways to the end I see....


"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5

 

[Elia]

I don't believe it's right to kill anyone, if we have the spirit in our hearts, we can slay with the sword, which is the word God. Thou shall not kill, means just that!

Bs"d

Then you believe wrong.

When God ordains the death penalty, then we have to do His will, and execute sinners like for instance murderers.

Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent.

"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15

 

[dodge]

Bs"d

You've got to have an enormous overheated fantasy to see him in the Tanach.


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

Could be that God will NOT allow you to see the truth because you are living a LIE.

 

[patrick jane]

Bs"d

Hanging on to your evil ways to the end I see....


"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5

Luke 3:22 KJV -

 

[Elia]

Could be that God will NOT allow you to see the truth because you are living a LIE.

Bs"d

Show me where he is in the Tanach.


"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5