Lon
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Different subject. You are talking about loss of salvation vs. adopted forever, not 'Election.'
Jesus indicates Election of Some !
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Lon
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Thanks. Are we in agreement with "All" from Romans 10:13? Conversely, all who don't call on the name of the Lord, by implication, are not saved.
Lon
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Just a different subject than the thread is concerned with... I don't want to derail this one about who God elects and who God does not elect.
I've no problem talking about "once elected, always elected" or OSAS or what have you in another thread, however. As with the previous, thank you for asking.
Lon
Well-known member
1) Election is about who will be Christians.
2) OSAS is about who of those, will remain Christians.
You are asking about #2 in a thread specifically about #1.
There are a lot of OSAS threads. Simply post there and put "@Lon" in your post. I'll find it.
Ask Mr. Religion
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On OSAS vs. Perseverance of the Saints:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...edestination&p=4495390&viewfull=1#post4495390
AMR
Nanja
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Your statement must be qualified to include exactly who the whosoevers are that shall be saved by calling on the Name of the Lord Jesus. And by comparing scripture with scripture 1 Cor. 2:13, we know that it's exclusively those who shall Believe on His Name by the Power of God Eph. 1:19.
John 1:12-13
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
For even that word "received" [lambano] means believing on His Name. So those calling upon the Name of the Lord in Rom. 10:13 are those who are already Believing on His Name by the Power of God because Believing or Faith is a fruit of the Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22 to all the Election of Grace who were Saved before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9.
Now those who maintain the lie that Christ died for all men without exception, and that they can choose by their own freewill to perform the good work of calling upon the name of the Lord / Believing on His Name and become saved, they are under a strong delusion 2 Thes. 2:11.
Eph. 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
John 3:27
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
“One of those means of God to His final glory is the perseverance of the Christian in faith to the end. I understand that one way God effects this means of perseverance in the saved is by admonishing them of the consequences of not persevering to the end and the conditions for salvation. I take these admonishments seriously. These admonishments stir up the faithful.”
God is still in need to effect what He determined?
Why admonish when it is already determined? To reveal by what means salvation is had...sailors still had to choose to obey Paul in the ship wreck...easier to do so when one believes an angel indeed gave him a message...
What is determined is the way to salvation...not the individuals who will be on it to the end
As for Peter’s claim there are those in Asia who will be saved...again the conditions are given...obey and through Him which was planned from the beginning...that there will be faithful ones to the end does not determine specifically which of the pilgrims will be...or make the choice to attempt to be...
This was interesting reading:
http://www.reformedreader.org/rbs/fuller01.htm
“Do you receive the doctrine of predestination? Certainly. To reject it, I would have to stultify my intellect, to discard prophecy, which is based upon this truth, to abjure the unequivocal teachings of the Bible, to believe that God has abandoned the earth to chance and disorder, and to plunge into I know not what absurdities.”
He didnt abandon the earth to chance and disorder He came to it and provided a Way...a choice for order in this life and the next...
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Ask Mr. Religion
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God's determination includes the means by which what He has determined are made actual. One of the means of His perseverance of the saints is the admonishments in Scripture that stir up the faithful, such that they do indeed persevere.
For example, the preaching of the Good News is the ordinary means by which those God has set His preference upon are brought into the Kingdom. The ordained servant is admonished to promiscuously preach the word in season and out. In these ordinary circumstances, those God has determined to be born anew, hear the Good News, and at the appointed time, are brought into the Kingdom by being quickened (regenerated) from spiritual death to life (monergism). At that instant, those so quickened will not want to not believe, and thus believe, and be saved (synergism).
No violence is done to the will of the creature by God's decree.
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Ahh yes yes...the threshing floor is to beat the chaff from a kernel which had no choice in its maturation
Odd method of demonstrating love...creating robots some programmed to obey some to not...
Ahh yes yes...the threshing floor is to beat the chaff from a kernel which had no choice in its maturation
Odd method of demonstrating love...creating robots some programmed to obey some to not...
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You have not been paying attention and have bought in to the anti-Calvinist "robot!" canard. The decree includes the very establishment of your ability to choose according to your own greatest inclinations at the moment you so choose. No violence is done to your will by God.
Chapter 3, WCF:
1. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: (Eph. 1:11,Rom. 11:33, Heb. 6:17, Rom. 9:15,18) yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, (James 1:13,17, 1 John 1:5) nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established. (Acts 2:23, Matt. 17:12, Acts 4:27-28, John 19:11, Prov. 16:33)
1. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: (Eph. 1:11,Rom. 11:33, Heb. 6:17, Rom. 9:15,18) yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, (James 1:13,17, 1 John 1:5) nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established. (Acts 2:23, Matt. 17:12, Acts 4:27-28, John 19:11, Prov. 16:33)
See a nice exposition of the same below that you may find edifying:
http://www.reformed.org/documents/shaw/shaw_03.html
Rather than assuming what a Calvinist believes and then telling them so, why not try ad fontes? :idunno:
Unlike the majority of anti-Calvinists, the Reformed actually have spent over a thousand years writing and explaining exactly what we affirm and why from Scripture we do so, such that anyone can avail themselves of the details, versus seeking the usual intellectually lazy methods found in discussion sites, blogs, social media, etc. Which is to say, don't just parrot others. While it plays well to the hoi polloi who relish the entertainment and their acedia, the discerning see it for what it really is: an unwillingness to use one's own mind for the glory of God.
So rather than just freeloading, cough up the cost of a few Happy Meals so you can avail yourself of a more detailed treatment:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ill-Answered&p=5138527&viewfull=1#post5138527
:AMR:
AMR
Nanja
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Amen Brother !
All those given to Christ of the Father in Election Eph. 1:4 shall come to Him: Just a remnant of all humanity, a special people chosen out of the whole world of people that would ever live on the face of the earth.
John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
They are comprised of a Sovereignly Chosen World / kosmos of People by God's discriminating Purpose and Electing Grace, which was given to them in their Head Christ Jesus from Everlasting, or before the World began 2 Tim. 1:9 !