Jesus Christ is God's Predestinated, Elected Man

[Robert Pate]

Before the foundation of the world God elected Jesus to be the savior of the whole world, 1 John 4:14 also Psalm 2:7,8.

Jesus refered to himself as the..."Son of Man" in doing this he identifies himself with humanity. Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity and representative, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

Jesus is the Son of David, the Son of Abraham, Matthew 1:1. The chosen one of God, Luke 9:23. He is God's elect man. The voice from heaven said, "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased" Matthew 3:17. In doing this God affirmed Jesus's election.

Jesus is humanities representative. All that Jesus is and all that Jesus does, he does for us, in our name and on our behalf. In our name and on our behalf he offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to God's Holy Law. It was his life that was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26.

"For he has made him (Jesus) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21. Jesus as our representative, takes our sins upon himself and in return gives us his righteousness. It is because of the doing and the dying of Jesus that God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. ALL THINGS have been reconciled to God by Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:21. God is now at peace with the world because of Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20.

This is the age of grace and faith. All who believe in Jesus can now become a part of God's new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17. God has done all that he can do for the salvation of fallen man. The call now is to enter into God's new humanity through his Son Jesus Christ, who is God's predestinated elected savior. Paul said, "Be ye reconciled unto God" 2 Corinthians 5:19 This means to accept what God has done for you in Jesus Christ and be reconciled unto God.

 

[Robert Pate]

Salvation becomes ours by faith alone and not by being predestinated. There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell. God does nothing outside of his Son Jesus Christ, Jesus said, "No man comes to the Father but by me" John 14:6. All that God does he does corporately. "By the obedience of ONE shall many be MADE righteous" Romans 5:19. God is no respector of persons, Acts 10:34. He provides salvation for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. Now it is up to everyone to hear the Gospel and believe in Jesus.

We have all been reconciled to God by the doing and the dying of Jesus, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. This reconciliation is available to all who want to be saved. Paul said, "Be ye reconciled unto God" 2 Corinthians 5:20. What Paul meant by this, is receive what God has done for you in Jesus Christ. God extends his hand of forgivness, to not accept his offer of forgivness of sins that is offered through Jesus Christ is to be under his wrath.

 

[Robert Pate]

When it comes to the doctrine of reconciliation all of the Calvinist appear to go home.

If God has ALREADY reconciled the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:19, then there is no place for predestination. Why would God need to predestinate anyone to heaven or to hell if he has ALREADY reconciled the whole world unto himself by Jesus Christ?

I have yet to hear from a Calvinist with an answer to that question.

 

[Robert Pate]

No one seems to want to challenge this thread, not even a Calvinist. Can it be that I have finally posted the unrefuteable thread?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

No one seems to want to challenge this thread, not even a Calvinist. Can it be that I have finally posted the unrefuteable thread?

Poor, sad, Robert. Gets anxious when no one is paying attention to him.

Could the reason be the fact that your continued repetitive posts on the same topics has finally become too boring to even bother responding, especially given that you simply ignore responses that disagree with you, while moving on to more repetitive threads?

Add to that the reason that no one is responding is the recent software update has many scrambling to find their bearings and you are just not a big priority.

AMR

 

[chrysostom]

No one seems to want to challenge this thread, not even a Calvinist. Can it be that I have finally posted the unrefuteable thread?

you have completely destroyed the calvinists -
but -
the catholics are going to need more work -
so -
get to work! -

 

[Letsargue]

Your Misunderstanding Of the WORD - "WORLD", Gets You (( NO Where in Christ ))!! - The Word "WORLD" Means "A-G-E"; - "That AGE", NOT The Whole EARTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(( Watch Your N-E-W-S ))!!!!!!!!

PAUL, DAVID -- 022316

 

[Robert Pate]

Poor, sad, Robert. Gets anxious when no one is paying attention to him.

Could the reason be the fact that your continued repetitive posts on the same topics has finally become too boring to even bother responding, especially given that you simply ignore responses that disagree with you, while moving on to more repetitive threads?

Add to that the reason that no one is responding is the recent software update has many scrambling to find their bearings and you are just not a big priority.

AMR

I am still waiting for you to answer my question. Here it is again.

If God has ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19, then why does anyone need to be predestinated?

It seems to me that anyone who has a mast head as large as yours should be able to answer a simple question.

 

[Robert Pate]

Your Misunderstanding Of the WORD - "WORLD", Gets You (( NO Where in Christ ))!! - The Word "WORLD" Means "A-G-E"; - "That AGE", NOT The Whole EARTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(( Watch Your N-E-W-S ))!!!!!!!!

PAUL, DAVID -- 022316

In other words, if you don't like what the Bible says, then change it.

So God didn't love the WORLD?

 

[Letsargue]

I am still waiting for you to answer my question. Here it is again.

If God has ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19, then why does anyone need to be predestinated?

It seems to me that anyone who has a mast head as large as yours should be able to answer a simple question.

That Has ""NOTHING"" To do with YOU!!! The ((( APOSTLE PAUL ))) Wrote that to the "Corinthians" over 2,000 Y-E-A-R-S AGO!!!!!!!!! -- Paul Wrote it TO The People """(( ""H-E"" ))""" WAS TALKING TO!!!!! NOT YOU!! -- How Can You ALL Take something that was written 2,000 Years AGO, And LIE Like that - it's to Y-O-UUUU???

THERE'S A (( P-I-L-E!! )) OF Stuff that Contradicts Your foolish Misunderstanding!!!!!

(( Watch Your N-E-W-S ))!!!!

PAUL, DAVID -- 022316

 

[Letsargue]

In other words, if you don't like what the Bible says, then change it.

So God didn't love the WORLD?

H-E LOVE IT!!! -- B-U-T THE Whole World / A-G-E Without ENDS (( H-A-T-E-D!! )) GOD!! -- AND THEY Still ( DO!! )!!

God said "Not Add To, or Take From" the Word of God; - (( Nothing ))!!!!

YOU A-L-L Do Nothing But Speak From Your OWN MIND,- ( In Your TEACHING of GOD ),,, Not From the Word of God / CHRIST ((( ""O-N-L-Y"" )))

(( Watch Your News))!!

PAUL, DAVID -- 022316

 

[Letsargue]

Poor, sad, Robert. Gets anxious when no one is paying attention to him.

Could the reason be the fact that your continued repetitive posts on the same topics has finally become too boring to even bother responding, especially given that you simply ignore responses that disagree with you, while moving on to more repetitive threads?

Add to that the reason that no one is responding is the recent software update has many scrambling to find their bearings and you are just not a big priority.

AMR

((( Another "P-I-L-E"!! ))) Of Wasted Breath!!!!!!

You're "TOOOO Smart" - to be Given Any TRUTH!!!!!! -- Just ASK YOU!!!!!!

((( ------------- )))!!!

PAUL, DAVID -- 022316

 

[Robert Pate]

That Has ""NOTHING"" To do with YOU!!! The ((( APOSTLE PAUL ))) Wrote that to the "Corinthians" over 2,000 Y-E-A-R-S AGO!!!!!!!!! -- Paul Wrote it TO The People """(( ""H-E"" ))""" WAS TALKING TO!!!!! NOT YOU!! -- How Can You ALL Take something that was written 2,000 Years AGO, And LIE Like that - it's to Y-O-UUUU???

THERE'S A (( P-I-L-E!! )) OF Stuff that Contradicts Your foolish Misunderstanding!!!!!

(( Watch Your N-E-W-S ))!!!!

PAUL, DAVID -- 022316

Whatever Paul wrote whether it is to the Corinthians or whoever is for me.

 

[Letsargue]

Whatever Paul wrote whether it is to the Corinthians or whoever is for me.

GOD /// "G-O-D"!!!! Said & S-A-Y-S!! Who the Word IS TO; (( N-O-T TO Y-O-U ))!!! - That was TO the "Corinthians", NOT Y-O-UUU!! -- That's what G-O-D SAID!!!!

WELL, Just ADD "Anything" You WANT TO, To the Word of God, and What GOD SAID; like that "smarter than god" fellow that calls Himself "Smarter than God" - Just Ash HIM!!!

None Of You Know or can say Weather or Not your Name is Written in the Lamb's ""Book OF Life"!! - You Don't EVEN Know What "T-H-A-T" MEANS!!!!! --- Just Ask MR Religious MAN!!!!

(( Watch Your N-E-W-S ))

PAUL, DAVID -- 022316

 

[Letsargue]

I am still waiting for you to answer my question. Here it is again.

If God has ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19, then why does anyone need to be predestinated?

It seems to me that anyone who has a mast head as large as yours should be able to answer a simple question.

He ain't answering anything!!!
****

(( Matthew 5:18 KJV )) -- 18- "For Verily ( I say unto YOU ), Till Heaven and Earth Pass, - ( One JOT or one TITTLE ) Shall in ((( """NO WISE"""!! ))) Pass from the Law, Till ALL be Fulfilled".--///------- (( "NO WISE" )) MEANS; - ""N-O"" Matter ""HOW WISE"" YOU ARE, You Cannot Change Even a "JOT OR TITTLT" To a Single Word of GOD!!!!

That's just How "?s-m-a-r-t? - Some of you Smartest Smarts ARE!!! -- Ask That "HIM", who knows it ALL!!

(( Watch Your N-E-W-S ))!!!!!

PAUL, DAVID -- 022316

 

[Robert Pate]

He ain't answering anything!!!
****

(( Matthew 5:18 KJV )) -- 18- "For Verily ( I say unto YOU ), Till Heaven and Earth Pass, - ( One JOT or one TITTLE ) Shall in ((( """NO WISE"""!! ))) Pass from the Law, Till ALL be Fulfilled".--///------- (( "NO WISE" )) MEANS; - ""N-O"" Matter ""HOW WISE"" YOU ARE, You Cannot Change Even a "JOT OR TITTLT" To a Single Word of GOD!!!!

That's just How "?s-m-a-r-t? - Some of you Smartest Smarts ARE!!! -- Ask That "HIM", who knows it ALL!!

(( Watch Your N-E-W-S ))!!!!!

PAUL, DAVID -- 022316

All has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the end of the Old Testament Covenant, law, and the Jewish religion.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I am still waiting for you to answer my question. Here it is again.

If God has ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19, then why does anyone need to be predestinated?

It seems to me that anyone who has a mast head as large as yours should be able to answer a simple question.

I have answered this many times, Robert. You just refuse to accept an answer given.

You confuse the message of reconciliation and the ministry of reconciliation contained in the passages. Our Lord is God's way of reconciling the world (all manner of people) to Himself. We are to continue to carry forth that message of reconciliation, which is the essentially gospel, that is, be ye reconciled to God -- and Jesus Christ, Our Lord, is the only way. In no place in Scripture will you find the universal salvation you are trying to force this and other passages to teach. The "us" are those for whom the Lord came to be reconciled. He died for all...of them. He was raised for all...of them.

In 2 Cor.5:19, the main actor is God (the Godhead), and in Christ refers to either the means of His work or the sphere of it. See also, Rom.6:11 wherein the main actor is the believer, and in Christ refers to the believer's considering, either the sphere of it (or his new life), or the means of it ("through Christ"). Either way, In Christ properly fits with the position of the believer rather than the intra-Godhead relation you are trying to argue like the hyper-Calvinists like to do with their claims of eternal justification. You and b57 should start a church or something. Sigh.

A hint for those wanting to dig deeper. In the Greek en is always following by the dative case (which would be an indirect or direct object).

If you want to argue the point with knowledge and not just the usual superficiality of most of your posts, Robert, this is required reading: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/owen/deathofdeath.html

The real issue for you, Robert, or anyone else that likes to cheery-pick Scripture verses, is what do you do with the "pattern of sound doctrine" as the Apostle Paul refers to it. Matters of doctrine is not proof-texting but operates on the principle of integrating the whole as opposed to forcing the contradiction of the particulars. Working our one's theological position is not a purely inductive approach of taking every passage in isolation from the whole.

Thus, what is clear in Hebrews 9-10 (and elsewhere) is the nature of Our Lord's atonement. If one wants to know about His atonement, you don't go to passages where the purpose of the passage is to only mention the atonement in passing and it isn't expounded upon. Picking a verse here and there mentioning the atonement is one thing, but are you in a position to look at the word itself in those sentences and conclusively define what the atonement is? Of course you are not, despite you doing it all the time.

In fact, the very use of words assumes there is some definition of the term in the rest of Scripture (OT teaching and the Apostolic teaching). The problem is that people way too often bring in un-Scriptural definitions and then go off proof-texting verses to bolster their presuppositions rather than check their defintions.

Even if one might be tempted to draw something universal from those verses, what could logically follow when you bring a similar view of a universal nature of the atonement belonging to Hebrews 9-10? In other words, if you have committed yourself, from the verses cited, that Christ's atonement is truly for all flesh, now you still have to ask yourself: "OK, let me now find what the Atonement means...."

As you move to passages in Hebrews 9-10 then, you would find that Christ's atonement is perfect for those He has atoned for. It is once-for-all, never to be repeated. Further, His High Priestly work is such that He effectually prays for His own such that they (those atoned for) might receive the benefits of His atoning sacrifice.

Thus, you are now armed with two "facts":

1. You just assumed that the atonement was for all men.
2. You just learned that Christ's atonement perfectly saves to the uttermost.

Ergo, you must conclude everyone will be saved.

Yikes!

Maybe, Robert, those verses need to be understood differently, no?

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

I have answered this many times, Robert. You just refuse to accept an answer given.

You confuse the message of reconciliation and the ministry of reconciliation contained in the passages. Our Lord is God's way of reconciling the world (all manner of people) to Himself. We are to continue to carry forth that message of reconciliation, which is the essentially gospel, that is, be ye reconciled to God -- and Jesus Christ, Our Lord, is the only way. In no place in Scripture will you find the universal salvation you are trying to force this and other passages to teach. The "us" are those for whom the Lord came to be reconciled. He died for all...of them. He was raised for all...of them.

In 2 Cor.5:19, the main actor is God (the Godhead), and in Christ refers to either the means of His work or the sphere of it. See also, Rom.6:11 wherein the main actor is the believer, and in Christ refers to the believer's considering, either the sphere of it (or his new life), or the means of it ("through Christ"). Either way, In Christ properly fits with the position of the believer rather than the intra-Godhead relation you are trying to argue like the hyper-Calvinists like to do with their claims of eternal justification. You and b57 should start a church or something. Sigh.

A hint for those wanting to dig deeper. In the Greek en is always following by the dative case (which would be an indirect or direct object).

If you want to argue the point with knowledge and not just the usual superficiality of most of your posts, Robert, this is required reading: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/owen/deathofdeath.html

The real issue for you, Robert, or anyone else that likes to cheery-pick Scripture verses, is what do you do with the "pattern of sound doctrine" as the Apostle Paul refers to it. Matters of doctrine is not proof-texting but operates on the principle of integrating the whole as opposed to forcing the contradiction of the particulars. Working our one's theological position is not a purely inductive approach of taking every passage in isolation from the whole.


Thus, what is clear in Hebrews 9-10 (and elsewhere) is the nature of Our Lord's atonement. If one wants to know about His atonement, you don't go to passages where the purpose of the passage is to only mention the atonement in passing and it isn't expounded upon. Picking a verse here and there mentioning the atonement is one thing, but are you in a position to look at the word itself in those sentences and conclusively define what the atonement is? Of course you are not, despite you doing it all the time.


In fact, the very use of words assumes there is some definition of the term in the rest of Scripture (OT teaching and the Apostolic teaching). The problem is that people way too often bring in un-Scriptural definitions and then go off proof-texting verses to bolster their presuppositions rather than check their defintions.


Even if one might be tempted to draw something universal from those verses, what could logically follow when you bring a similar view of a universal nature of the atonement belonging to Hebrews 9-10? In other words, if you have committed yourself, from the verses cited, that Christ's atonement is truly for all flesh, now you still have to ask yourself: "OK, let me now find what the Atonement means...."


As you move to passages in Hebrews 9-10 then, you would find that Christ's atonement is perfect for those He has atoned for. It is once-for-all, never to be repeated. Further, His High Priestly work is such that He effectually prays for His own such that they (those atoned for) might receive the benefits of His atoning sacrifice.


Thus, you are now armed with two "facts":


1. You just assumed that the atonement was for all men.
2. You just learned that Christ's atonement perfectly saves to the uttermost.


Ergo, you must conclude everyone will be saved.


Yikes!


Maybe, Robert, those verses need to be understood differently, no?

AMR

The usual smoke screen. A long post that says nothing.

You can't face the fact that God has reconciled the WHOLE WORLD unto himself by Jesus Christ. The ministry of reconciliation is the preaching of the Gospel that justifies the ungodly Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

The Gospel is universal, because it is about how Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil. It is a declaration by God that his Son Jesus Christ has provided salvation for the whole world, 1 John 4:14. God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. No one needs to be predestinated. No one needs to do anything. Jesus has made it possible for all who do nothing more than to call on the name of the Lord to be saved, Romans 10:13.

 

[Crucible]

Pate was predestined to crusade against Calvinists.

So that we understand that we are right :chuckle:

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

The usual smoke screen. A long post that says nothing.

You can't face the fact that God has reconciled the WHOLE WORLD unto himself by Jesus Christ. The ministry of reconciliation is the preaching of the Gospel that justifies the ungodly Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

The Gospel is universal, because it is about how Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil. It is a declaration by God that his Son Jesus Christ has provided salvation for the whole world, 1 John 4:14. God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. No one needs to be predestinated. No one needs to do anything. Jesus has made it possible for all who do nothing more than to call on the name of the Lord to be saved, Romans 10:13.

As I noted in my response that has been given many times, you are unwilling to be open to correction, so you just continue to ask for answers already given. That may satisfy your intellectual laziness, but it does not obviate the plain fact that you have your answer. :AMR:

AMR