Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

[glorydaz]

If YHVH is the God of gods, then there must be other gods in existance.

Deuteronomy 10:17 17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:​

Jesus was a divine being before coming to earth, Jesus lived on the earth as a human being, Jesus was transformed back to a divine being after His resurrection and ascension.

Surely you don't consider false gods as real gods?

Satan, for instance....is he a god?

Or these?

Judges 2:12-14
12 And they forsook the Lord God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the Lord to anger.​

You don't see those as figments of man's imagination?

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.​

No, GO. There is only ONE GOD

1 Corinthians 8:4-5
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)​

 

[MennoSota]

You are sadly delusional.

Not one bit. I just don't look for ways to deny Jesus as God and Redeemer. I accept the he is the I AM, the Alpha and Omega, the Creator who said "Let Us make man in our image."
I accept that you have stumbled.

 

[Dartman]

Oh, are you saying our Lord was in danger of hell fire when He used the term "fools"?

Matthew 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

Matthew 23:19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
​

So are you going to ignore the teachings of Jesus with this pathetic attempt to EXPLAIN AWAY what Jesus plainly taught??
Your arrogance is palpable!​

Jesus was given his God's spirit, and could judge the intents of the heart. You are NOT able to know other's hearts. You are in arrogance and pride disobeying Christ's clear teachings.

God turned aside from the Jews when they rejected the LORD OF GLORY...

Of course.

when He came and dwelt among them.

He was born just as his God's words foretold.

1 Corinthians 2:8 ...

Yep, a wonderful verse.

Acts 13:26-28 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. 27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. 28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.

Acts 13:45-46 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.​

You don't read well, do you? God didn't turn from the Jews that accepted His son, He turned aside from the Jews that accused His son of claiming to be God.

Your verses in Acts 13 agree completely with my statement; He turned aside from the Jews that accused His son of claiming to be God.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Surely you don't consider false gods as real gods?

No, I don't consider gods of wood and stone to be real gods.

Satan, for instance....is he a god?

Some people believe that this verse calls Satan a god, but I think it is too ambiguous to make that conclusion.

2 Corinthians 4:4 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.​

Or these?

Judges 2:12-14
12 And they forsook the Lord God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the Lord to anger.​

Yes, there are other gods and those gods were worshiped by the Gentile nations.

You don't see those as figments of man's imagination?

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.​

Yes, graven images are false gods.

No, GO. There is only ONE GOD

1 Corinthians 8:4-5
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)​

Can't you read?
Idols are nothing, but there are many gods.

 

[Dartman]

I just don't look for ways to deny Jesus as God and Redeemer. I accept the he is the I AM, the Alpha and Omega, the Creator who said "Let Us make man in our image."
I accept that you have stumbled.

This is not surprising. You and I don't see Scriptures the same, and both of us believe the other's doctrine is in error.

The significant difference between our doctrines is, I have clear, simple and direct ... statements, explanations and preaching .. of my "Jesus".

You do not.

You have a few verses that are worded in a way you can twist, and convince yourself that there is Scriptural support for your "Jesus".

Like I said, this is NOT surprising, the Scriptures foretold this situation about 2,000 years ago;

2 Cor 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.


Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Acts 20:28-31 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.


2 Thess 2:1-4 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[MennoSota]

This is not surprising. You and I don't see Scriptures the same, and both of us believe the other's doctrine is in error.

The significant difference between our doctrines is, I have clear, simple and direct ... statements, explanations and preaching .. of my "Jesus".

You do not.

You have a few verses that are worded in a way you can twist, and convince yourself that there is Scriptural support for your "Jesus".

Like I said, this is NOT surprising, the Scriptures foretold this situation about 2,000 years ago;

2 Cor 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.


Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Acts 20:28-31 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.


2 Thess 2:1-4 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

If it props your crutch up, keep telling yourself that. I won't change your disrespect for God the Son.

 

[genuineoriginal]

If it props your crutch up, keep telling yourself that. I won't change your disrespect for God the Son.

There is no mention of any "God the Son" in the Bible, but there is a Son of God that you seem to reject.

 

[glorydaz]

So are you going to ignore the teachings of Jesus with this pathetic attempt to EXPLAIN AWAY what Jesus plainly taught??
Your arrogance is palpable!

Too bad you are blind to what our Lord accomplished on the Cross. He is the END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS for those who believe.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.​

That means, the law has no more dominion over us. Our righteousness comes from FAITH in our Lord's work on the cross...NOT from our attempts to be righteous.


Back to Christianity 101 for you. :wave:

Jesus was given his God's spirit, and could judge the intents of the heart. You are NOT able to know other's hearts. You are in arrogance and pride disobeying Christ's clear teachings.
Of course.

Sounds to me like you're calling me a "FOOL". You bad bad boy you.

The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ is the same Holy Spirit. A member of the Godhead.

Your verses in Acts 13 agree completely with my statement; He turned aside from the Jews that accused His son of claiming to be God.

In other words...they accused Jesus Christ of claiming to be God....which is why He turned from them to the Gentiles, who did believe He is God.

Think about it. If God turned away from the Jews who "accused His son of claiming to be God", then God should be happy with them for seeing through the LIE you accuse Him of.

This is where it pays to think before you let your mouth run away while you flail helplessly behind.

 

[genuineoriginal]

In other words...they accused Jesus Christ of claiming to be God....which is why He turned from them to the Gentiles, who did believe He is God.

That is not a good argument.

Modern Christians claim that God turned away from the children of Israel for their failure to keep the commandments...and that God turned to the Gentiles who refuse to keep the commandments.

 

[glorydaz]

That is not a good argument.

I was rewording his argument....which is not a good argument.

Modern Christians claim that God turned away from the children of Israel for their failure to keep the commandments...and that God turned to the Gentiles who refuse to keep the commandments.

I've never heard that argument either. :chuckle:

 

[genuineoriginal]

Modern Christians claim that God turned away from the children of Israel for their failure to keep the commandments...and that God turned to the Gentiles who refuse to keep the commandments.

I've never heard that argument either. :chuckle:

They usually don't phrase it like that.

 

[glorydaz]

​

They usually don't phrase it like that.

LOL Well, none of the believers that I've even know have thought that.

 

[genuineoriginal]

LOL Well, none of the believers that I've even know have thought that.

Dispensationalists do not really understand what they teach about keeping the commandments.
:idunno:

 

[Aimiel]

Very good ..... so far.
Nope, it proves Jesus is Lord.

I don't follow. Jesus is The Holy Spirit. He spoke to Paul and you want to pretend it is meaningless.

 

[Aimiel]

Are you saying the Risen Lord is the Holy Spirit?

Who was Paul speaking to? It wasn't an angel. It was The Spirit of The Living God. They are One.

 

[glorydaz]

Who was Paul speaking to? It wasn't an angel. It was The Spirit of The Living God. They are One.

Who also happens to be the Spirit of the Risen Lord, so in that sense you're correct. I guess.


There is still distinction in their Oneness, and Paul addresses Him as Lord..."I am Jesus..."

Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.​

I think we have to be careful to keep their distinctness intact...as we see here.

Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.​

But, I haven't been following this thread very closely, so maybe you've addressed that already.

 

[glorydaz]

Dispensationalists do not really understand what they teach about keeping the commandments.
:idunno:

Of course they do. Perhaps you don't really understand what they teach.

 

[way 2 go]

Both passages are past tense.
"He also DID predestinate" is past, not future.
"before the ages" isn't future! It's WAY past.

:think:
your choice of rebuttal is aggressive ignorance therefore I believe you have no evidence of what you claim

this still stands.
both future tense no where dose it say that Christians had glory before the world existed
underline , highlight all you want doesn't say what you want it to say.

You are so desperate to cling to your distortion of John 17:5, that you are utterly blind.

no evidence of what you claim.

this still stands.
Jesus existed in glory before the world existed,
Jesus was not in that glory ,
Jesus was saying glorify me with the glory that I had before the world existed

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

 

[SabathMoon]

Who was Paul speaking to? It wasn't an angel. It was The Spirit of The Living God. They are One.

Yes, it was the angel Jesus Christ which would still have a body and would not be just spirit.
Matthew 22:30-31 ; Luke 20:36 ; Mark 12:25

Further Abraham, Isaac and Jacob didn't need the blood of Christ and were already woke from the dead. And since Christ was given a body like theirs, he could not have been god.

 

[SabathMoon]

Mat 27:53
And came out of the graves after his resurrection (ie. his awakening), and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

I don't know where it says we are to have a body like Christ in the New Testament, but it will be like the one described in revelation.