ECT Jerry's 'unaware of death' theory flops in John

[SaulToPaul 2]

In ch 3 is it specifically for saving a person from the condemnation of sin. How early is that?

Which goat "taketh away the sins"?
Asked 4,819 times....still no answer from you.

 

[God's Truth]

My theory can be understood and believed by anyone who will actually use their brain. Here we see the Twelve preaching a gospel:

"And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where" (Lk.9:6).​

At that time the Twelve didn't even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34) so they were not preaching the same gospel which Paul preached which was centered on the death of the Lord Jesus--that Christ died for our sins.

Despite these facts Interplanner wants us to believe that after preaching a gospel at Luke 9:6 all of the Apostles suddenly developed a case of Alzheimer's disease and that is why they all forgot that He was going to die!

Jesus came to earth and preached forgiveness of sins through him.

He gave all the guidelines for the new covenant, and then he shed his blood on the cross for the new covenant.

When he came to earth, he came only for those who ALREADY belonged to God.

They were God's, now they had to go through Jesus to remain God's.

When he was crucified, it was the time of shedding of the blood and the new covenant was finished, and all could come to him, through his blood, even the Jews who were cut off when he walked the earth, as long as they do not persist in unbelief.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

When he came to earth, he came only for those who ALREADY belonged to God.

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).​

 

[God's Truth]

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).​

That was about THE CROSS.
I have added the scriptures that prove what I said:


Jesus came only for those who ALREADY belonged to God.


Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."


They were God's and now they had to go through Jesus to remain God's.


John 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.


Jesus said when he is crucified, then all can come to him to be saved, even the Jews who were cut off.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

There was a new covenant that was made and now everyone everywhere have to go through the blood he shed on the cross.

Matthew 26:28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You are not factoring in suppression and denial. In fact, you are acting right now like Peter! Doesn't that ingrigue you? Denial always knows, but needs to control things. That's why it had to be 'hidden'--they would have tried like Peter or Caiaphas to prevent it or alter the outcome.

Who can take you seriously?

According to you if the Apostle knew that the Lord Jesus' death would result in Him being "made sin for us so that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him" they would have tried to stop the crucifixion!

Why don't you try using a little common sense every now and then?

 

[Right Divider]

Why don't you try using a little common sense every now and then?

Because he has none.

 

[Interplanner]

Who can take you seriously?

According to you if the Apostle knew that the Lord Jesus' death would result in Him being "made sin for us so that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him" they would have tried to stop the crucifixion!

Why don't you try using a little common sense every now and then?

Yes, that is what happened to them. They totally rejected the idea that Jesus would end up like thousands of other zealots. Peter tried to stop the crucifixion. They responded to him: this will never happen to you.

Great! You are starting to get it Jerry. The momentum of zealot Judaism caused them to block/deny the crucifixion happening to Jesus.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Yes, that is what happened to them. They totally rejected the idea that Jesus would end up like thousands of other zealots. Peter tried to stop the crucifixion. They responded to him: this will never happen to you.

Great! You are starting to get it Jerry. The momentum of zealot Judaism caused them to block/deny the crucifixion happening to Jesus.

According to you if the Apostle knew that the Lord Jesus' death would result in Him being "made sin for us so that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him" they would have tried to stop the crucifixion!

You are as foolish as they come!

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Yes, that is what happened to them. They totally rejected the idea that Jesus would end up like thousands of other zealots. Peter tried to stop the crucifixion. They responded to him: this will never happen to you.

Great! You are starting to get it Jerry. The momentum of zealot Judaism caused them to block/deny the crucifixion happening to Jesus.

IP: amateur psychology
Jerry: Bible


I'd say Jerry is on the right track.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I have added the scriptures that prove what I said:

Jesus came only for those who ALREADY belonged to God.

Did He not come to taste death for everyone? Or did He only die for the Jews? He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel but in the end He died for all men.

Right?

 

[Right Divider]

Did He not come to taste death for everyone? Or did He only die for the Jews? He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel but in the end He died for all men.

Right?

GT is very much a cherry-picker. She believes some of the Bible, but rejects other parts of it. She completely rejects this one:

John 1:11 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

​

 

[Interplanner]

According to you if the Apostle knew that the Lord Jesus' death would result in Him being "made sin for us so that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him" they would have tried to stop the crucifixion!

You are as foolish as they come!

Yes, infected with zealot Judaism, they would have tried to stop that. And Peter did try. And they told him 'this will never happen to you.'

You are unaware of what is actually happening in the account because you have found a prooftext to what you thought was THE question of the account. That is how D'ism creates fools. They have the wrong questions.

The layers of zealot Judaism in them prevented the sacrificial Gospel from actually sinking in. All they heard was 'kingdom, thrones, power, Israel uber alles'.

 

[Right Divider]

Yes, infected with zealot Judaism, they would have tried to stop that. And Peter did try. And they told him 'this will never happen to you.'

You are unaware of what is actually happening in the account because you have found a prooftext to what you thought was THE question of the account. That is how D'ism creates fools. They have the wrong questions.

The layers of zealot Judaism in them prevented the sacrificial Gospel from actually sinking in. All they heard was 'kingdom, thrones, power, Israel uber alles'.

You are a HOOT!

 

[Interplanner]

You are a HOOT!

Maybe, but it's all there. I love being a hoot to D'ists and anti-historians.

 

[Right Divider]

Maybe, but it's all there. I love being a hoot to D'ists and anti-historians.

:french:

 

[Interplanner]

As far as I know, D'ists don't believe in the existence of zealots in the 1st century, sort of like atheists today who don't believe in God.

 

[God's Truth]

GT is very much a cherry-picker. She believes some of the Bible, but rejects other parts of it. She completely rejects this one:

John 1:11 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

​

I believe all the Bible. Why do you say 'cherry picker'? No scripture can be put aside. Jesus' own did not recognize him and they were cut off and hardened. The lost sheep recognized him and were saved.

 

[God's Truth]

According to you if the Apostle knew that the Lord Jesus' death would result in Him being "made sin for us so that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him" they would have tried to stop the crucifixion!

You are as foolish as they come!

They might not always have understood, but they understood that what Jesus did say, it was LIFE.

John 6:66 From that time on, many of His disciples turned back and no longer accompanied Him. 67So Jesus asked the Twelve, “Do you want to leave too?” 68Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life.


You don't even grasp that JESUS' words were, and IS STILL LIFE FOR ALL.

You think Paul came and taught something else.

 

[God's Truth]

Did He not come to taste death for everyone? Or did He only die for the Jews? He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel but in the end He died for all men.

Right?

That is right. When Jesus walked the earth, it was only for those who ALREADY belonged to God by faith.

See, the old law was NOT based on faith. A Jew could obey all the purification/ceremonial works, but not have a right heart with God. God did not like it that the Jews could sin, give a sin offering according to the law---but not really be sorry for their sins. God promised that there would be a new covenant one day and that day came with Jesus Christ. Jesus came for those whom God did not cut off. They already belonged to God. They were God's and now had to go through Jesus to remain God's. Jesus said when he is crucified, then all can come to be saved.

John 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.

Luke 19:42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace--but now it is hidden from your eyes.

Luke 8:10 He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.'

Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith;

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

 

[Interplanner]

That is right. When Jesus walked the earth, it was only for those who ALREADY belonged to God by faith.

See, the old law was NOT based on faith. A Jew could obey all the purification/ceremonial works, but not have a right heart with God. God did not like it that the Jews could sin, give a sin offering according to the law---but not really be sorry for their sins. God promised that there would be a new covenant one day and that day came with Jesus Christ. Jesus came for those whom God did not cut off. They already belonged to God. They were God's and now had to go through Jesus to remain God's. Jesus said when he is crucified, then all can come to be saved.

John 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.

Luke 19:42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace--but now it is hidden from your eyes.

Luke 8:10 He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.'

Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith;

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Interesting thoughts, GT, you might have supported them stronger by Heb 11.