It Has Been A Long Time Since Old Covenant Israel Was the Chosen People
- Thread starter northwye
- Start date
beloved57
Well-known member
You show me the verse that reads : anyone can accept Jesus Christ and be born again!
Romans 3:22 New Living Translation (NLT)
22 We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
The Christian churches believe in the theory that G.d rejected His chosen people, and that instead the Christians are the new spiritual Israel. However, G.d says clearly in the Holy Torah that He will never break his covenant with the Jewish people, even not when they stray away from Him. When the Jews go astray G.d will punish them. (Leviticus 26:14-17) And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them seven times harder. (idem:18-22) And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them another seven times harder. (idem:23-24) And if they then still refuse to turn back to G.d, He will punish them another seven times harder. (idem:27-28) But despite all this, G.d will not break His covenant with the Jewish people: Leviticus 26:44-45; "And yet for all that, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break My covenant with them: For I am Y-H-W-H their G.d. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their G.d: I am Y-H-W-H."
"Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying: The two families that the LORD hath chosen, He has even cast them of? Thus they have despised My people, that they should no more be a nation before them. Thus saith the LORD: If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: for I will cause their captivety to return and have mercy on them." Jeremiah 33:24-26
If G.d rejected the Jews, why then is He now fulfilling the prophecies that He will gather in the Jews and bring them back to their land? "Fear not, for I am with thee, I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west. I will say to the north; give up, and to the south; keep not back: Bring my sons from far, and My daughters from the ends of the earth." Isaiah 43:5+6 The whole world witnesses this miracle, how after almost 2000 years of dispersion over the whole earth the Jews are returning to Israel. In just 50 years a state has been built from scratch, the Hebrew language has been revived. Is there any precedent in history for this? Is there any other people that was dispersed throughout the whole world for almost 2000 years that held on to their identity and their religion?---Surely we see here the hand of G.d. However, this is not the final in gathering of Jews, that is to be done by the messiah. The final in gathering will be after the war of Gog from Magog with Israel. This is described by the prophet Ezekiel, in Ezekiel 38 and 39. Please read these two chapters in order to get a good overview of this. Ezekiel 38:8; "In the latter years thou shall come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel." Here it is prophesied that Gog will attack Israel, a land that is brought out of many nations. We see now that the Jews from the whole world are coming home. The Jews are coming from Africa, America, all the European countries have given their share of Jews, we have had mass immigration from Russia, the Jews are coming home from all over the world. But, the final complete ingathering of the Jews will be after the war of Gog from Magog with Israel. This war and G.d's terrible punishment upon Gog are described in the latter part of chapter 38 and the beginning of chapter 39. And after that it is written in chapter 39, verse 25: "Therefore, thus saith the LORD G.d: now I will bring back the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel… " So the final complete in gathering will be later.
Why is Gog attacking Israel? Ezekiel 38:12: "To take spoil and to take a prey". idem verse 13: "Art thou come to take spoil? Hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? To carry away silver and gold? To take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?" Here we see that the attack is in order to carry away large amounts of riches that have accumulated in Israel. Fifty years ago the state of Israel started with less than 500,000 people in a piece of desolated desert, with no natural resources whatsoever. On the contrary; even water is a problem. It was attacked right away by fifty million Arab neighbours, yet by a miracle it survived. The state was faced with major problems, like constant terrorism from hostile neighbors and full-blown wars. Israel has to spend enormous amounts of money for defense in order to survive. Israel has been faced with mass immigration. For instance, since '89 almost a million Russian immigrants arrived, which is an enormous strain upon such a small nation. But nevertheless, what is the result? Israel has a level of prosperity comparable to many western countries. Israel has joined the twenty richest countries in the world, and financial experts think that Israel is fast on its way to the top. Surely the blessings of G.d are worth much more than an abundance of oil or gold mines.
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"For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:" Ephesians 5: 8
Israel, With Christ In It, Is the Light To the World
Isaiah 42: 6-7 says "I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentile; 7. To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house."
At first Old Covenant Israel was the light to the nations, or to the Gentiles. Later, the light will become Christ himself. Then, it becomes his 12 disciples and in Paul the light becomes all believers in Christ.
Isaiah 9: 2: "The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined."
The great light the people were to see was Christ, who as the savior of Israel, is the light to the Gentiles. Physical Israel was to be blessed because the light of the world was to come through them. But as John 1: 11 says "He came unto his own, and his own received him not."
Matthew 23: 38 records that Jerusalem, or Old Covenant Israel, as a house, is left desolate, meaning the light of Christ no longer shines in it.
Christ teaches in John 8: 12 that "I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."
Physical Old Covenant Israel is no longer the light of the world, or the light to the nations, because Christ is not in it.
Physical Old Covenant Israel does not now exist as a people of God. The light is no longer in what claims to be Old Covenant Israel, because what claims to be Israel is anti-Christ. Talmudic Judaism is not Old Covenant Israel as Old Covenant Israel existed under the Pharisees at the time of Christ.
Old Covenant Israel was remade - Jeremiah 18: 1-6, especially verse 4, "...so he made it again another vessel,as seemed good to the potter to make it."
The New Covenant was started in the remnant of Israel in Romans 11: 5. Soon, as recorded in Acts 10, Hosea 2: 23 - "I will say to them which are not my people, thou art my people..." was fulfilled.
The rejection of Jeremiah 18: 4, Romans 11: 5, Romans 9: 6-8, Galatians 3: 3, 16, 27-29 and Haggai 2: 9 - "The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former..." - led to the falling away of II Thessalonians 2: 3-4.
In the falling away from sound doctrine and in the loss of Christ the light by the Church in the apostasy the Christian Zionist Church teaches that God now has two peoples, the multitude of Old Covenant Israel, which is Talmudic Judaism, and the Church. "And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee..." Revelation 18: 23
Israel, With Christ In It, Is the Light To the World
Isaiah 42: 6-7 says "I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentile; 7. To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house."
At first Old Covenant Israel was the light to the nations, or to the Gentiles. Later, the light will become Christ himself. Then, it becomes his 12 disciples and in Paul the light becomes all believers in Christ.
Isaiah 9: 2: "The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined."
The great light the people were to see was Christ, who as the savior of Israel, is the light to the Gentiles. Physical Israel was to be blessed because the light of the world was to come through them. But as John 1: 11 says "He came unto his own, and his own received him not."
Matthew 23: 38 records that Jerusalem, or Old Covenant Israel, as a house, is left desolate, meaning the light of Christ no longer shines in it.
Christ teaches in John 8: 12 that "I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."
Physical Old Covenant Israel is no longer the light of the world, or the light to the nations, because Christ is not in it.
Physical Old Covenant Israel does not now exist as a people of God. The light is no longer in what claims to be Old Covenant Israel, because what claims to be Israel is anti-Christ. Talmudic Judaism is not Old Covenant Israel as Old Covenant Israel existed under the Pharisees at the time of Christ.
Old Covenant Israel was remade - Jeremiah 18: 1-6, especially verse 4, "...so he made it again another vessel,as seemed good to the potter to make it."
The New Covenant was started in the remnant of Israel in Romans 11: 5. Soon, as recorded in Acts 10, Hosea 2: 23 - "I will say to them which are not my people, thou art my people..." was fulfilled.
The rejection of Jeremiah 18: 4, Romans 11: 5, Romans 9: 6-8, Galatians 3: 3, 16, 27-29 and Haggai 2: 9 - "The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former..." - led to the falling away of II Thessalonians 2: 3-4.
In the falling away from sound doctrine and in the loss of Christ the light by the Church in the apostasy the Christian Zionist Church teaches that God now has two peoples, the multitude of Old Covenant Israel, which is Talmudic Judaism, and the Church. "And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee..." Revelation 18: 23
"Chosen people" was their choice of words just like "gentile dog" was. The Jews wrote, rewrote, redacted and edited the OT books in Babylon. They made NO claim to be writing by inspiration. They were writing for the child like mind of bronze age sheep herders. It wasn't until the return to Jerusalem that later members of the elite priest class traditionalized the revised books, they became scripture.
Let's say for the sake of discussion that God made a covenant with all the people of Jacob. God separated ten tribes from Judah so that their destiny would be independent of Judah. Are the ten tribes Jews? No.
Is the covenant made at Sinai the only covenant God is allowed to make? We know it's not because God has promised a new covenant to Israel and Judah.
However, the covenant God made with Abraham is not negated by the Sinai covenant which came much later. God promised Abraham that through him all families of the earth would be blessed.
God has not broken his covenant with the people of Jacob but he has set it aside because of the peoples' unbelief.
You can talk all you want but only God can restore that covenant.
The enemies of Christ all unite against the Lords people, and the Jews are on the side of the enemies of God.
Unless they be converted and their sins be blotted out.
The only riches the land of Israel will have are the true Christians.(people in Christ regardless of their flesh type).
The dragon hates Christians but loves unconverted Jews.
LA
Elia
Well-known member
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
God chose ISRAEL:
"For you are a people holy to J-H-W-H your God; J-H-W-H your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on earth to be his people, his treasured possession."
Deut 7:6
"Although heaven and the heaven of heavens belong to J-H-W-H your God, the earth with all that is in it, yet J-H-W-H set his heart in love on your ancestors alone and chose you, their descendants after them, out of all the peoples, as it is today."
Deut 10:14
"For you are a people holy to J-H-W-H your God; it is you J-H-W-H has chosen out of all the peoples on earth to be his people, his treasured possession."
Deut 14:2
"But now hear, O Jacob my servant, Israel whom I have chosen! Thus says J-H-W-H who made you, who formed you in the womb and will help you: Do not fear, O Jacob my servant, Jeshurun whom I have chosen. For I will pour water on the thirsty land, and streams on the dry ground;
I will pour my spirit upon your descendants, and my blessing on your offspring."
Isaiah 44:1
There are many more passages like this, it is clear that Israel is chosen by God.
Chosen for what?
"Now therefore, if you obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession out of all the peoples. Indeed, the whole earth is mine, but you shall be for me a priestly kingdom and a holy nation. These are the words that you shall speak to the Israelites.”
Ex 19:6
Can this chosenness be temporarily, or can it be taken away from the Jews?
Thus says J-H-W-H,
who gives the sun for light by day
and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—
J-H-W-H of hosts is his name:
If this fixed order were ever to cease
from my presence, says J-H-W-H,
then also the offspring of Israel would cease
to be a nation before me forever.
Thus says J-H-W-H:
If the heavens above can be measured,
and the foundations of the earth below can be explored,
then I will reject all the offspring of Israel
because of all they have done,
says J-H-W-H.
Jer 31:35
This is like the days of Noah to me:
Just as I swore that the waters of Noah
would never again go over the earth,
so I have sworn that I will not be angry with you
and will not rebuke you.
For the mountains may depart
and the hills be removed,
but my steadfast love shall not depart from you,
and my covenant of peace shall not be removed,
says J-H-W-H, who has compassion on you.
Is 54:10
If Israel sins, will God break the covenant?
When the Jews go astray God will punish them. "But if you will not obey me, and do not observe all these commandments, if you spurn my statutes, and abhor my ordinances, so that you will not observe all my commandments, and you break my covenant, I in turn will do this to you: I will bring terror on you; consumption and fever that waste the eyes and cause life to pine away. You shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. I will set my face against you, and you shall be struck down by your enemies; your foes shall rule over you, and you shall flee though no one pursues you." (Leviticus 26:14-17) And if they then still don't listen, God will punish them seven times harder: " And if in spite of this you will not obey me, I will continue to punish you sevenfold for your sins. I will break your proud glory, and I will make your sky like iron and your earth like copper. Your strength shall be spent to no purpose: your land shall not yield its produce, and the trees of the land shall not yield their fruit." (ibid :18-22) And if they then still don't listen, God will punish them another seven times harder: "If you continue hostile to me, and will not obey me, I will continue to plague you sevenfold for your sins. I will let loose wild animals against you, and they shall bereave you of your children and destroy your livestock; they shall make you few in number, and your roads shall be deserted." (ibid :23-24) And if they then still refuse to turn back to God, He will punish them another seven times harder: "If in spite of these punishments you have not turned back to me, but continue hostile to me, then I too will continue hostile to you: I myself will strike you sevenfold for your sins. I will bring the sword against you, executing vengeance for the covenant; and if you withdraw within your cities, I will send pestilence among you, and you shall be delivered into enemy hands. When I break your staff of bread, ten women shall bake your bread in a single oven, and they shall dole out your bread by weight; and though you eat, you shall not be satisfied. (ibid :27-28)
But despite all this, God will not break His covenant with the Jewish people: Leviticus 26:44-45; "And yet for all that, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break My covenant with them: For I am J-H-W-H their God. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am J-H-W-H."
"Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying: The two families that J-H-W-H hath chosen, He has even cast them of? Thus they have despised My people, that they should no more be a nation before them. Thus saith J-H-W-H: If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: for I will cause their captivety to return and have mercy on them."
Jeremiah 33:24-26
So is God a respector of persons?
"I have loved you, says J-H-W-H. But you say, “How have you loved us?” Is not Esau Jacob’s brother? says J-H-W-H. Yet I have loved Jacob but I have hated Esau;"
Mal 1:2
“And now, Israel, what does J-H-W-H your God require of you, but to fear J-H-W-H your God, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, to serve J-H-W-H your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to keep the commandments of J-H-W-H and His statutes which I command you today for your good? Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to J-H-W-H your God, also the earth with all that is in it. J-H-W-H delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day."
Deut 10:12
Apperently, He is.
"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5.
.
.
.
God chose ISRAEL:
"For you are a people holy to J-H-W-H your God; J-H-W-H your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on earth to be his people, his treasured possession."
Deut 7:6
"Although heaven and the heaven of heavens belong to J-H-W-H your God, the earth with all that is in it, yet J-H-W-H set his heart in love on your ancestors alone and chose you, their descendants after them, out of all the peoples, as it is today."
Deut 10:14
"For you are a people holy to J-H-W-H your God; it is you J-H-W-H has chosen out of all the peoples on earth to be his people, his treasured possession."
Deut 14:2
"But now hear, O Jacob my servant, Israel whom I have chosen! Thus says J-H-W-H who made you, who formed you in the womb and will help you: Do not fear, O Jacob my servant, Jeshurun whom I have chosen. For I will pour water on the thirsty land, and streams on the dry ground;
I will pour my spirit upon your descendants, and my blessing on your offspring."
Isaiah 44:1
There are many more passages like this, it is clear that Israel is chosen by God.
Chosen for what?
"Now therefore, if you obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession out of all the peoples. Indeed, the whole earth is mine, but you shall be for me a priestly kingdom and a holy nation. These are the words that you shall speak to the Israelites.”
Ex 19:6
Can this chosenness be temporarily, or can it be taken away from the Jews?
Thus says J-H-W-H,
who gives the sun for light by day
and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—
J-H-W-H of hosts is his name:
If this fixed order were ever to cease
from my presence, says J-H-W-H,
then also the offspring of Israel would cease
to be a nation before me forever.
Thus says J-H-W-H:
If the heavens above can be measured,
and the foundations of the earth below can be explored,
then I will reject all the offspring of Israel
because of all they have done,
says J-H-W-H.
Jer 31:35
This is like the days of Noah to me:
Just as I swore that the waters of Noah
would never again go over the earth,
so I have sworn that I will not be angry with you
and will not rebuke you.
For the mountains may depart
and the hills be removed,
but my steadfast love shall not depart from you,
and my covenant of peace shall not be removed,
says J-H-W-H, who has compassion on you.
Is 54:10
If Israel sins, will God break the covenant?
When the Jews go astray God will punish them. "But if you will not obey me, and do not observe all these commandments, if you spurn my statutes, and abhor my ordinances, so that you will not observe all my commandments, and you break my covenant, I in turn will do this to you: I will bring terror on you; consumption and fever that waste the eyes and cause life to pine away. You shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. I will set my face against you, and you shall be struck down by your enemies; your foes shall rule over you, and you shall flee though no one pursues you." (Leviticus 26:14-17) And if they then still don't listen, God will punish them seven times harder: " And if in spite of this you will not obey me, I will continue to punish you sevenfold for your sins. I will break your proud glory, and I will make your sky like iron and your earth like copper. Your strength shall be spent to no purpose: your land shall not yield its produce, and the trees of the land shall not yield their fruit." (ibid :18-22) And if they then still don't listen, God will punish them another seven times harder: "If you continue hostile to me, and will not obey me, I will continue to plague you sevenfold for your sins. I will let loose wild animals against you, and they shall bereave you of your children and destroy your livestock; they shall make you few in number, and your roads shall be deserted." (ibid :23-24) And if they then still refuse to turn back to God, He will punish them another seven times harder: "If in spite of these punishments you have not turned back to me, but continue hostile to me, then I too will continue hostile to you: I myself will strike you sevenfold for your sins. I will bring the sword against you, executing vengeance for the covenant; and if you withdraw within your cities, I will send pestilence among you, and you shall be delivered into enemy hands. When I break your staff of bread, ten women shall bake your bread in a single oven, and they shall dole out your bread by weight; and though you eat, you shall not be satisfied. (ibid :27-28)
But despite all this, God will not break His covenant with the Jewish people: Leviticus 26:44-45; "And yet for all that, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break My covenant with them: For I am J-H-W-H their God. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am J-H-W-H."
"Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying: The two families that J-H-W-H hath chosen, He has even cast them of? Thus they have despised My people, that they should no more be a nation before them. Thus saith J-H-W-H: If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: for I will cause their captivety to return and have mercy on them."
Jeremiah 33:24-26
So is God a respector of persons?
"I have loved you, says J-H-W-H. But you say, “How have you loved us?” Is not Esau Jacob’s brother? says J-H-W-H. Yet I have loved Jacob but I have hated Esau;"
Mal 1:2
“And now, Israel, what does J-H-W-H your God require of you, but to fear J-H-W-H your God, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, to serve J-H-W-H your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to keep the commandments of J-H-W-H and His statutes which I command you today for your good? Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to J-H-W-H your God, also the earth with all that is in it. J-H-W-H delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day."
Deut 10:12
Apperently, He is.
"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5.
.
.
.
iamaberean
New member
The covenant with the Jews was a marriage. When the wife, Jews, went a whoring with the worldly gods he divorced her and took a new wife, Christians. That is why we read about the Old Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem. The old was done away with.
Deu 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
Jews may also become the bride of Christ, but that requires turning away from the old and accepting Jesus as their messiah. That does not do away with the new, Christians.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
Thus says J-H-W-H,
who gives the sun for light by day
and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—
J-H-W-H of hosts is his name:
If this fixed order were ever to cease
from my presence, says J-H-W-H,
then also the offspring of Israel would cease
to be a nation before me forever.
Thus says J-H-W-H:
If the heavens above can be measured,
and the foundations of the earth below can be explored,
then I will reject all the offspring of Israel
because of all they have done,
says J-H-W-H.
Jer 31:35
This is like the days of Noah to me:
Just as I swore that the waters of Noah
would never again go over the earth,
so I have sworn that I will not be angry with you
and will not rebuke you.
For the mountains may depart
and the hills be removed,
but my steadfast love shall not depart from you,
and my covenant of peace shall not be removed,
says J-H-W-H, who has compassion on you.
Is 54:10
If Israel sins, will God break the covenant?
When the Jews go astray God will punish them. "But if you will not obey me, and do not observe all these commandments, if you spurn my statutes, and abhor my ordinances, so that you will not observe all my commandments, and you break my covenant, I in turn will do this to you: I will bring terror on you; consumption and fever that waste the eyes and cause life to pine away. You shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. I will set my face against you, and you shall be struck down by your enemies; your foes shall rule over you, and you shall flee though no one pursues you." (Leviticus 26:14-17) And if they then still don't listen, God will punish them seven times harder: " And if in spite of this you will not obey me, I will continue to punish you sevenfold for your sins. I will break your proud glory, and I will make your sky like iron and your earth like copper. Your strength shall be spent to no purpose: your land shall not yield its produce, and the trees of the land shall not yield their fruit." (ibid :18-22) And if they then still don't listen, God will punish them another seven times harder: "If you continue hostile to me, and will not obey me, I will continue to plague you sevenfold for your sins. I will let loose wild animals against you, and they shall bereave you of your children and destroy your livestock; they shall make you few in number, and your roads shall be deserted." (ibid :23-24) And if they then still refuse to turn back to God, He will punish them another seven times harder: "If in spite of these punishments you have not turned back to me, but continue hostile to me, then I too will continue hostile to you: I myself will strike you sevenfold for your sins. I will bring the sword against you, executing vengeance for the covenant; and if you withdraw within your cities, I will send pestilence among you, and you shall be delivered into enemy hands. When I break your staff of bread, ten women shall bake your bread in a single oven, and they shall dole out your bread by weight; and though you eat, you shall not be satisfied. (ibid :27-28)
But despite all this, God will not break His covenant with the Jewish people: Leviticus 26:44-45; "And yet for all that, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break My covenant with them: For I am J-H-W-H their God. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am J-H-W-H."
"Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying: The two families that J-H-W-H hath chosen, He has even cast them of? Thus they have despised My people, that they should no more be a nation before them. Thus saith J-H-W-H: If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: for I will cause their captivety to return and have mercy on them."
Jeremiah 33:24-26
"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5.
.
.
.
iamaberean
New member
Elia,
Obviously, you are right about the scripture you quoted, but what we have to is look at the whole picture. The Jews that God did not divorce were those of faith. His disciples and all the others that accepted him as their messiah were the Jews of faith. These are the ones who preached the new covenant. Paul even said a remnant of the Jews would be saved and God's promises, in the old testament, were always intended for those Jews of faith not to those of the flesh and a large part of those of the flesh were the scribes and Pharisees who only played the part of being God's chosen.
by the way what do you mean by 'Bs"d'
Let me guess. Some of your best friends are Jews...
"And I will stretch over Jerusalem the line of Samaria, and the plummet of the house of Ahab: and I will wipe Jerusalem as a man wipeth a dish, wiping it, and turning it upside down." II Kings 21: 13
"Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?" Isaiah 29: 16
"Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
4. And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
5. Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
6. O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel." Jeremiah 18: 3-6
The Church did not replace Old Covenant Israel, nor does Old Covenant Israel now exist alongside the Church. The Church is a translation of ekklesia, a meeting, assembly or congregation. All doctrine is established on the basis of the meanings of the Hebrew and Greek words used in that doctrine.
To say that the Church replaced Old Covenant Israel is like saying the meeting of the local Democratic Party replaced the Republican Party. A meeting or assembly is not a proper noun. But Israel is a proper noun.
Israel did not end with the New Covenant. A remnant of Old Covenant Israel came out of that Old Covenant and began the New Covenant. God's people are always Israel. The people claiming the bloodline cannot accept this because they want to maintain their superior status by that which is physical, their bloodline. Read Malachi 1 and 2.
"Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?" Isaiah 29: 16
"Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
4. And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
5. Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
6. O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel." Jeremiah 18: 3-6
The Church did not replace Old Covenant Israel, nor does Old Covenant Israel now exist alongside the Church. The Church is a translation of ekklesia, a meeting, assembly or congregation. All doctrine is established on the basis of the meanings of the Hebrew and Greek words used in that doctrine.
To say that the Church replaced Old Covenant Israel is like saying the meeting of the local Democratic Party replaced the Republican Party. A meeting or assembly is not a proper noun. But Israel is a proper noun.
Israel did not end with the New Covenant. A remnant of Old Covenant Israel came out of that Old Covenant and began the New Covenant. God's people are always Israel. The people claiming the bloodline cannot accept this because they want to maintain their superior status by that which is physical, their bloodline. Read Malachi 1 and 2.
iamaberean
New member
The people that claim the bloodline today have no more Jewish DNA in their blood than Khazars or other Europeans and no more than Iranians or other Middle Easterners.
There is no lineage of the Jew today, as there was in the time of Jesus here on earth!
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Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
No, those were the drop outs, who strayed after a new man-god, that no one ever new before:
“If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’—which you have not known—‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for Y-H-W-H your God is testing you to know whether you love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after Y-H-W-H your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of bondage, to entice you from the way in which Y-H-W-H your God commanded you to walk. So you shall put away the evil from your midst.
If anyone secretly entices you—even if it is your brother, your father’s son or your mother’s son, or your own son or daughter, or the wife you embrace, or your most intimate friend—saying, “Let us go worship other gods,” whom neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7*any of the gods of the peoples that are around you, whether near you or far away from you, from one end of the earth to the other, 8*you must not yield to or heed any such persons. Show them no pity or compassion and do not shield them. 9*But you shall surely kill them; your own hand shall be first against them to execute them, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10*Stone them to death for trying to turn you away from Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11*Then all Israel shall hear and be afraid, and never again do any such wickedness."
Deut 13
"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5
isn't it "and the sign and wonder does NOT come to pass?"