ECT Israel's Prophetic Clock stopped in 70AD, not in Mid Acts
- Thread starter tetelestai
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ClimateSanity
New member
So you throw rocks because you believe dispensationalism is a cancer to the body of Christ? We don't think it is. Therefore, any question coming from you is not really an honest question. It's a set after the manned of the Pharisees. Until you can talk about things without the sole intention of making us cross every T and dot every I to the end of declaring we have a false gospel when we might not have a fool proof answer to every conceivable flaw, there is no need to answer you. Of course your rebuttal is that we don't answer because we can't with the implication that such is an indication we are believing heresy. That's nonsense. You cannot answer every conceivable flaw in your way of looking at the bible either. Sorry, the default answer " it was fulfilled in Christ Jesus" is a cop out and extremy lazy thinking.
ClimateSanity
New member
You are also concerned with the condition of the body of Christ? Where is your concern for those teaching things that send people to hell? Why aren't you asking Meshak and God's truth a thousand and one questions? What they believe is far more dangerous than anything a dispy teaches. Your whole issue with us is concerning a Gods covenant people from a past dispensation and it's future reincarnation. There is nothing at all you can attack for what we preach for the current dispensation. That's where your concern should be. You should be attacking those people who preach a false way of salvation for today.
Interplanner
Well-known member
"Fulfilled in Christ" should matter a lot more than that. Besides being the general mindset of the NT, it is stated that way in places like Acts 13's sermon and Rom 15. What is so annoying about D'ism and 2P2P is the amount of mental work that has gone into applying a system to these things, when the natural shape and direction of it all is right there. It's sort of like D'ism wants validation of problems that would never be there in the first place, or should not be.
There are too many very direct statements in the NT that are simply dismissed (and sometimes just not known) for D'ism and 2P2P to be taken seriously. The main 2 are Acts 13's sermon, and I Th 2. It is astonishing that so many people have taken the 'stand with Israel (modern)' pitch and don't know what Paul was saying in I Th 2.
And it is not just words or bit phrases; it runs quite deep, even addressing why the prophetic vision of Isaiah changes from Israel only and geographically to so much more.
Yes, there are people here at TOL with very mistaken 'gospels.' But then, after D'ism and 2P2P, the Bible and Christ start looking like a Salvador Dali painting and he comes across irrational and artificial. What use is that?
I have spent a year in church history at the master's level, and I know of nowhere that D'ism and 2P2P made a forceful impact on unbelievers. It was developed to resolve the Catholic-Protestant strife in the UK in the 1800s. Instead, have a look at Holford's 1805 presentations on the DofJ as showing Christ's deity, and you will see that it near caused the skeptic Thomas Payne to go bankrupt in his publication project that was supposed to be the end of Christianity.
There are too many very direct statements in the NT that are simply dismissed (and sometimes just not known) for D'ism and 2P2P to be taken seriously. The main 2 are Acts 13's sermon, and I Th 2. It is astonishing that so many people have taken the 'stand with Israel (modern)' pitch and don't know what Paul was saying in I Th 2.
And it is not just words or bit phrases; it runs quite deep, even addressing why the prophetic vision of Isaiah changes from Israel only and geographically to so much more.
Yes, there are people here at TOL with very mistaken 'gospels.' But then, after D'ism and 2P2P, the Bible and Christ start looking like a Salvador Dali painting and he comes across irrational and artificial. What use is that?
I have spent a year in church history at the master's level, and I know of nowhere that D'ism and 2P2P made a forceful impact on unbelievers. It was developed to resolve the Catholic-Protestant strife in the UK in the 1800s. Instead, have a look at Holford's 1805 presentations on the DofJ as showing Christ's deity, and you will see that it near caused the skeptic Thomas Payne to go bankrupt in his publication project that was supposed to be the end of Christianity.
Interplanner
Well-known member
When you've calmed down and grown up, I'll respond. Besides, I don't know what you are asking and I think you are generally unclear on all of this. Ryrie is the previous generation's leading D'ism speaker; why would I post his name as though he was unrelated to it? I'm working to defeat all of its concepts.
Here is the practical problem today. I reviewed lc.org which provides legal assistance to Christians. Great. They also feature special support for modern Israel. Now, if it read 'for all non-Muslim, pluralist countries around the world' I would get it. But these dear people think there is a 2nd program in existence and that modern Israel is the 2nd one, and it has its own universe of salvation and results which is nonetheless in the same Bible and mentioned by the Paul etc., who talks about the other one but says 10x: there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile etc. A person goes crazy with such radical inconsistency.
If they were concerned with pluralism and representative Judeo-Christian law, why just confine yourself to interest about Israel?
Yes, I believe it is a cancer.
An "honest question" is one you don't know the answer to.
I don't know how Danoh can reconcile his claim that Israel's prophetic clocked stopped in Mid-Acts with what happened in 70AD.
It makes no sense to me, I don't know his answer, it's an honest question.
You don't answer because you can't.
If I asked a simple question, I would get a bunch of answers from you guys. When I ask hard ones that you can't answer, you are left with no alternative than to attack me, because you can't answer the question.
That' right you can't.
I can answer any question you ask me. Why can't you answer any question I ask you?
What's nonsense is you Darby followers not being able to defend your Dispensationalism.
Try me?
The law and prophets were fulfilled in Christ Jesus, and I can explain it.
Dispensationalism sends Jews to hell. (I even started a thread on it).
Dispensationalism tells Christ rejecting Jews today that they are special, and that God has a separate plan for them.
I disagree. Dispensationalism is a far more dangerous false gospel.
Dispensationalism teaches that animal sacrifices for sin atonement will take place in the future.
That is a slap in the face to what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross.
Wrong again. See above.
You tell Christ rejecting Jews that they are special, and that God has a different plan for them.
Interplanner
Well-known member
btw, where did the idea that you thought 'saved' in Rom 11 meant justification from sins come from? I mean where in the posts. That has been my objection to those who turn saved into a restored Israel!
Lol - don't celebrate your OVER RELIED ON books based wisdom just yet - we hold that Israel's restored kingdom and commission is AFTER their Romans 9-11 justification from sin - Matt. 10; Acts 1-4, etc.
The Apostle Paul never said a peep about "Israel's restored kingdom".
That's because the Apostle Paul wasn't a Dispensationalist.
Interplanner
Well-known member
"their Rom 9-11 justification from sin" is an oxymoron. Justification is of individual sinners. You make it sound like it is one group (I assume in the future). But who would that be? It would not be 99% of Israel, that's who, because it would be one snapshot of them in the future! Don't you ever think about what you are saying? This is the same problem, or simply is the problem, of having heard but misunderstood 'all Israel saved' 1000x as a soundbyte that meant there would be a restored theocracy (there is no authentic "restoration" of Israel without there being a theocracy, and all the followers of this are salivating over a 'David' to come--hopefully without the idolatry, naked dancing and adultery!)
Interesting how you read into my words instead of asking. I don't even hold that "all Israel" refers to "all Israel" - no MADist does - that is just your shoddy reading into the words of others once more.
Ask one MADist if "all Israel" includes Judas Iscariot? Duh.
Keep it up and you'll soon find yourself in Tel's same self-inflicted predicament - wondering why he is no longer taken seriously.
Interplanner
Well-known member
You're in your own isolation ward on this one. It's in the literature and media every day. The whole country will be 'saved in a day.'
There you go with your OVER RELIANCE ON external sources again :chuckle:
Interplanner
Well-known member
Duh...this is a different question. This question is how we know what the 'prophecy experts and teachers TODAY' are saying. I'm not sure you are following the conversation. I don't think this is the right arena for you.
Without an over reliance of external sources, there wouldn't be any Dispensationalists.
You're are the biggest hypocrite on TOL.
Danoh isn't interested in discussing theology. He's only interested in demeaning and attacking those who are not Darby followers like himself.
All you have to do is open your eyes and see that the end has not yet come. How stupid can one be ?
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
This is the dramatic irony. Without historically-recent external sources and "books about" (even though no Dispy has to have actually read one themselves personally), there would be no Dispensationalism.
There are two oikoinomiai for creation. More on that later. Gotta go for now.