Isn't it reasonable to doubt Young Earth Creationism?

Derf

Well-known member
I see you are more concerned with the details of the scenario than you are with the logical conundrum it illustrates. Feel free to recast the story in terms of some dramatic future ecclesiastical event in which god lets it be known in advance what will occur, but someone subverts that by doing something different than god said. If god ain’t so good at predicting what I am gonna write, then just maybe we all got a surprise coming when we find god also missed the call on who’s gonna win in the end. Maybe Satan wins after all.

Satan would like you to think that, or even just consider that. Sometimes God's plan was altered by God when He saw repentance, if His plan was to bring judgment (like at Nineveh). Or it was altered by God when the subject would not obey (like King Saul).

He even tells us this is a possibility:
[Jer 18:7 NASB] "At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy [it;]
[Jer 18:8 NASB] if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it.
[Jer 18:9 NASB] "Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant [it;]
[Jer 18:10 NASB] if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it.
 

redfern

Active member
Satan would like you to think that, or even just consider that. Sometimes God's plan was altered by God when He saw repentance, if His plan was to bring judgment (like at Nineveh). Or it was altered by God when the subject would not obey (like King Saul).

He even tells us this is a possibility:
[Jer 18:7 NASB] "At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy [it;]
[Jer 18:8 NASB] if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it.
[Jer 18:9 NASB] "Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant [it;]
[Jer 18:10 NASB] if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it.

Thank you. Then regarding a nation that god threatens to uproot or pull down or destroy, does or does not god know in advance whether or not that nation will in fact repent? And did or did not god know right from the get-go that King Saul would not obey?
 

redfern

Active member
The settled view strikes again.

I presume “the settled view” is referencing some religious philosophy. I’m not much for keeping track of many of the details on which sects differ, so unless that is crucial for me to know, I will let it pass on by.

Free will is redundant. If it's not free, it's not a will.

Then I am not constrained to conform to what god wrote on the parchment? I can in fact open a post to you with a salutation different than the one god said I would use? Maybe god was …….. wrong?
 

Derf

Well-known member
Thank you. Then regarding a nation that god threatens to uproot or pull down or destroy, does or does not god know in advance whether or not that nation will in fact repent? And did or did not god know right from the get-go that King Saul would not obey?
I would say "not"
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
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I presume “the settled view” is referencing some religious philosophy. I’m not much for keeping track of many of the details on which sects differ, so unless that is crucial for me to know, I will let it pass on by.



Then I am not constrained to conform to what god wrote on the parchment? I can in fact open a post to you with a salutation different than the one god said I would use? Maybe god was …….. wrong?
If you don't know anything about God, you shouldn't be inventing stories to argue against His existence.

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Stripe

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Then I am not constrained to conform to what god wrote on the parchment? I can in fact open a post to you with a salutation different than the one god said I would use? Maybe god was …….. wrong?

Did God write it, or did you?

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Stripe

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If you don't want to be bothered by actually reading the scenario, just say so.
I did. It was boring, based on a concept of God you invented. The God of the Bible explains the way of life and death and urges you to choose life.

Now, did you have something on topic, or are we going to have to suffer more of your made-up philosophy?

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redfern

Active member
If you don't know anything about God

I know about god, much like you know about Poseidon and Zeus and Santa Claus. I simply don’t believe he exists.

you shouldn't be inventing stories to argue against His existence.

Read my scenario again carefully. It does not call into question his existence; it only points out that if he has a perfect knowledge of the future, as 6days affirms, then I have no choice but to start my post with what god said I would, else god is wrong.
 

redfern

Active member
I did. It was boring, based on a concept of God you invented. The God of the Bible explains the way of life and death and urges you to choose life.

Now, did you have something on topic, or are we going to have to suffer more of your made-up philosophy?

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OK, you are going to avoid the core issue I pointed out. Feel free to go on your way kicking a can down the road, and put me on ignore.,
 

Stripe

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OK, you are going to avoid the core issue I pointed out. Feel free to go on your way kicking a can down the road, and put me on ignore.,
I didn't ignore it; I asked a question. You refrained from answering, and for good reason. When you answer that question, your challenge falls to pieces.

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Stripe

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And I only put complete retards on ignore. You're only being slightly trollish. :)

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redfern

Active member
I am uncomfortable with some ideas that [MENTION=17583]iouae[/MENTION] (“vowels” to most here) expressed in opposition to Walt Brown. I don’t know if iouae still follows this thread or has moved on. But anyway – JR responded quite well to iouae, and I want to back him in that. Specifically iouae posted:

… Here is the size of what scientists call doomsday or killer meteors...
"
In what could be a major scientific puzzle, the team's new size estimate for the dino-killing meteorite is a mere 2.5 to 3.7 miles (4 to 6 kilometers) across.

The most recent computer models predicted a size of 9 to 12 miles (15 to 19 kilometers) across."
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080410-sea-meteorites.html

So a lump of rock a mere 3 to 12 miles across was able to wipe out the dinosaurs so that none survived.
And these rocks travel at about mach 70.

Yet this pinprick sized rock can cause a mass extinction because of its velocity.

What you and your hydroplate buddy propose is a reverse of a meteor striking earth. Same energy principle.

I don’t know what same energy principle means, but I do know that it would take as much energy to throw a meteor into space as a meteor impacting the earth releases. But a simple analogy shows why that does not mean equal devastation results when incoming as outgoing.

I go deer hunting. Some idiot hunter sees me making my way through a thicket, and sure I am a deer, shoots at me. The bullet hits my shoulder, breaking bones, shredding flesh, and causing me to say some unprintable things to the idiot. A year later, I am back in the woods, and I see that idiot as he is hunting. I raise my rifle to my still sore, but now usable shoulder, and launch my bullet on a perfect path to his rear end.

Last year the bullet was incoming, this year outgoing, both times with equal energy, but the resultant damage to my shoulder was immensely different last year. Equal energy, why not equal damage? The difference is that this year, I supplied the required energy not by decimating my shoulder, but by means of some high-energy powder behind the bullet, and having that energy transferred to the bullet over the length of the 20 inches of barrel before it exited the muzzle. Last year the transfer of energy from the bullet to my shoulder was almost instantaneous, and done at the expense of bones and flesh.

As JR pointed out, Walt’s fountain is kinda like a 60-miles long gun barrel, with a huge supply of energetic SCW acting like gunpowder.
 
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