Is there a true church?

[Prizebeatz1]

What is it about Him that you don't think is literally true?




Why not?

Drink my blood and eat my flesh. The raising of a dead man, etc. These kinds of things are symbolic. I am no longer a Catholic because I no longer subscribe to their interpretation after I experienced my spiritual awakening.

 

[RCLady]

Does any Christian church have 100% true doctrine? Which denomination teaches the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

You call yourself a Catholic and you are asking this question?

The Catholic Church vs. Anti-pope and apostate - Bergoglio

 

[OCTOBER23]

RC LADY, .......................posted all those Satanic Verses.

Thanks for the LAUGH !

 

[glassjester]

You call yourself a Catholic and you are asking this question?

I do call myself a Catholic. I do not disagree with any Catholic doctrine. I am not asking this question to determine my own beliefs, of which I am already aware, and in which I am already firmly grounded. I am asking others about their beliefs.

Is that alright?


I will ask you a similar question. You call yourself a Catholic, and you think you have to like every single thing the pope says, in order for him to be the pope?

 

[Crucible]

@RC Lady

And that's why Protestants believe the Roman Church is not the 'one true church'

The argument is supremely circular, as it is this- 'the RCC is the true church because the RCC says so, and because the RCC says so it must be the true church'.

:freak:

You also have to think about the fact that Bonafice VIII, for example, was back in the time when Catholicism was the only church of the West to be well developed and, as well, was still flexing over the Eastern schism.

Also
John Calvin seemed to believe that if St. Augustine was still around, he would have appealed more so to Reformed belief.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

You call yourself a Catholic and you are asking this question?

The Catholic Church vs. Anti-pope and apostate - Bergoglio

Is this the same Catholic church that insisted the earth was flat and the earth was the center of the solar system?

 

[glassjester]

Is this the same Catholic church that insisted the earth was flat and the earth was the center of the solar system?

You mean they agreed with the scientific consensus of the time? Scandalous.

And when did the Church teach that the Earth is flat?

 

[Nihilo]

Drink my blood and eat my flesh. The raising of a dead man, etc. These kinds of things are symbolic. I am no longer a Catholic because I no longer subscribe to their interpretation after I experienced my spiritual awakening.

'Only thing, is that the raising of this particular dead Man is that He arose as a new, spiritual body, one that we do not yet have, and will not have until our resurrection. It's what it means when the Scripture says that He is "the firstfruits" (1Co15:20)---He wasn't the first to be born, but He was the first to be "re-"born; resurrected, a la, the resurrection, at the end of the age.

Our Lord's already done that. Almost two thousand years ago, and counting. He's got an enormous head start, in other words, on how best to live in our forthcoming new bodies.

I'm not sure you get that, about the Gospel. That He's not "a raised dead man"---he's immortal, as a human.

Plus He's our Maker.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

You mean they agreed with the scientific consensus of the time? Scandalous.

And when did the Church teach that the Earth is flat?

I think people know what I'm trying to say. I'm not going to get into it. Suffice to say the church is not always right. Just because a denomination's interpretation is popular doesn't give them a monopoly on salvation, even though they claim otherwise. Why would a church make such a claim and then discourage people away from the soul, which is the most valuable part of us, and then tell us it's a part of us but we are not a part of it? Where does it say that? When did something else become more important than our own soul? Profit and enterprise are good but not at the cost of our infinite and eternal identity. We can't afford to pretend like it doesn't matter anymore.

Now we have a situation where people are unconsciously trying to compensate for a missing feeling of value, meaning, significance and importance in their lives. There's no amount of anything that is going satisfy this longing to connect with the substance of God in our soul. And we play along with justifying that it's okay to live without knowledge or our infinite and eternal self for fear of making the church wrong? Why is this theme coming up again? Who is going to pay for all of the lives that disconnection from the soul has destroyed? This is not something to take lightly. We can't just talk about it once and think it will go away. We need to have the courage to take a stand against the so-called authorities or humanity is going to continue suffering unnecessarily.

 

[journey]

Those who insist on posting large pictures should put them in spoilers.

They ruin an entire page, making users scroll right and left for each line.

I won't do that, so I just skip the entire page.

 

[chrysostom]

Those who insist on posting large pictures should put them in spoilers.

They ruin an entire page, making users scroll right and left for each line.

I won't do that, so I just skip the entire page.

no problem for me
I turn off graphics
and
put the jerks on ignore
no problem here

 

[glassjester]

Suffice to say the church is not always right. Just because a denomination's interpretation is popular doesn't give them a monopoly on salvation, even though they claim otherwise.

1. Which specific Catholic doctrine or dogma claims that the Church is always right?

2. Please explain what you believe the Catholic Church teaches when you say they claim a "monopoly on salvation."

 

[Prizebeatz1]

1. Which specific Catholic doctrine or dogma claims that the Church is always right?

2. Please explain what you believe the Catholic Church teaches when you say they claim a "monopoly on salvation."

What about the lines in the pictures that say there is no salvation outside the Catholic church? Doesn't that imply they are the one and only true church?

 

[glassjester]

What about the lines in the pictures that say there is no salvation outside the Catholic church? Doesn't that imply they are the one and only true church?

Yes. But that's hardly a controversial claim. Every denomination believes that the doctrines they teach are all true, therefore any varying doctrine taught by another denomination is necessarily false, hence all other churches are not "true."


But what does the Catholic Church actually teach regarding this claim?

Here's a short explanation:
http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means

I realize providing a link to an article is severely frowned upon here, so I'll provide some quotes from it, in order to summarize the main points.

Here is how the Catechism of the Catholic Church begins to address this topic: "How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Reformulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body" (CCC 846).

The first part of the reformulated teaching—"all salvation comes from Christ the Head"—is quite easy for all Christians, even non-Catholics, to understand and embrace. It echoes Jesus’ own words recorded by John: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me" (Jn 14:6). So, Christians unanimously agree on this first part.

When speaking of salvation, Jesus offered more details than just his words quoted above. For example, consider these three verses:

He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)
nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3)
[H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)
Notice that in these three verses Jesus associated salvation with baptism, confession, and the Eucharist, respectively. Catholics recognize that these sacraments are administered through the Church.

We see this in Jesus’ teaching: "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters" (Mt 12:30). Also: "f he [a sinning brother] refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector" (Mt 18:17). Paul warned similarly: "As for a man who is factious, after admonishing him once or twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is perverted and sinful; he is self-condemned" (Ti 3:10-11).

Having said all this, we must recognize that this doctrine is not as far reaching as some imagine it to be. People will sometimes ask, "Does this mean non-Catholics are going to hell?" Not necessarily.

The Church recognizes that God does not condemn those who are innocently ignorant of the truth about his offer of salvation. Regarding the doctrine in question, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (quoting Vatican II document Lumen Gentium, 16) states:

This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation. (CCC 847)

Vatican II document Gaudium Et Spesteaches similarly on the possibility of salvation:

All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way. For, since Christ died for all men, and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery. (22)

This teaching is consistent with Jesus’ own teaching about those who innocently reject him: "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin" (Jn 15:22).

But once a person comes to know the truth, he must embrace it or he will be culpable of rejecting it. We see this in Jesus’ words to the Pharisees: "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, ‘We see,’ your guilt remains" (Jn 9:41).

The whole article is worth the read, for a full explanation. Thanks for being willing to actually discuss the topic. Really.

 

[HisServant]

Yes. But that's hardly a controversial claim. Every denomination believes that the doctrines they teach are all true, therefore any varying doctrine taught by another denomination is necessarily false, hence all other churches are not "true."


But what does the Catholic Church actually teach regarding this claim?

Here's a short explanation:
http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means

I realize providing a link to an article is severely frowned upon here, so I'll provide some quotes from it, in order to summarize the main points.













The whole article is worth the read, for a full explanation. Thanks for being willing to actually discuss the topic. Really.

I never find Roman Catholic propaganda good for the mind or soul.

It's like asking the criminal if he is innocent.... of course they are going to lie.

 

[glassjester]

I never find Roman Catholic propaganda good for the mind or soul.

It's like asking the criminal if he is innocent.... of course they are going to lie.

Your accusation is meaningless.

Care to refute the actual content of the post or article?

 

[HisServant]

Your accusation is meaningless.

Care to refute the actual content of the post or article?

It's self refuting, simply because of who authored it.

Some people just aren't worth the time, which is why God tells us to have NOTHING to do with them.

God has commanded us to have nothing to do with Roman Catholics in any way shape or form, unless they are receptive to the Gospel.

 

[glassjester]

It's self refuting, simply because of who authored it.

The very definition of the ad hominem fallacy. Bravo.

Some people just aren't worth the time, which is why God tells us to have NOTHING to do with them.

Scriptural citation needed. (No personal interpretations please. Just the verse(s) that plainly state your point above)

God has commanded us to have nothing to do with Roman Catholics in any way shape or form, unless they are receptive to the Gospel.

Scriptural citation needed. (No personal interpretations please. Just the verse(s) that plainly state your point above)

 

[HisServant]

The very definition of the ad hominem fallacy. Bravo.




Scriptural citation needed. (No personal interpretations please. Just the verse(s) that plainly state your point above)



Scriptural citation needed. (No personal interpretations please. Just the verse(s) that plainly state your point above)

Romans 16:17-18

Galatians 1:8-9

II John 9-11

I Timothy 6:20-21

For starters

Scripture totally supports the idea of separation from those that teach false doctrines... of which the RCC is the king of kings in that regard.

 

[glassjester]

Romans 16:17-18

Galatians 1:8-9

II John 9-11

I Timothy 6:20-21

For starters

Scripture totally supports the idea of separation from those that teach false doctrines... of which the RCC is the king of kings in that regard.

You have yet to demonstrate the falsehood of any of the doctrines discussed in the article above.

Do you truly not see how circuitous your claim is?


You've said nothing more than...
"I know the Catholic Church is a false church because Catholic doctrine is false.
I know that Catholic doctrine is false because the Catholic Church is a false church."

Round and round the mulberry bush...

Meaningless.