Is the New Covenant for non Jews?

[clefty]

Wrong. See Romans 5:8.

No covenant was involved.

Show me sin without a covenant...show me His love demonstrated without a covenant...show me a reason to have to die without a Law demanding blood for sin

Without a covenant He was just another Jew killed by Rome...

In fact without a covenant there is NO NEED FOR GRACE

No need for salvation or Saviour

Just a god who did NOT so love the world...that he did not care as well NO COVENANT

 

[clefty]

To God.

God eh?

Bring us closer to which one of the thousands out there....and why?

Why brought near...why does it matter why were we ever separate from this god

Why does he care? why should we?

You have no clue what the gospel is...grace is just your “do what thou whilst”

“Love is all you need” rebellion

 

[clefty]

Brought near by the blood of Christ, not brought near by the covenant.

Why did you leave out the blood?

Why did His grace need blood? Why not just change or abolish the law demanding it and PRESTO! No need to suffer His only begotten...free grace for everybody...come on in no sin at all...yeee haw...

 

[Aaron the Tall]

Clefty, you seem the most outspoken on this, how about you first.

The purpose of the New Covenant: "For this reason, Christ is mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance."

Who has he called?

"even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles...." Rom. 9:24

What is the promised eternal inheritance?

"He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit." Gal 3:14

Who is the promise for?

To Abraham and to his seed. Not seeds = genetic Jews. To his seed = Jesus and all who are in Jesus = Christians. Gal 3:16

 

[clefty]

The purpose of the New Covenant: "For this reason, Christ is mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance."

Who has he called?

"even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles...." Rom. 9:24

What is the promised eternal inheritance?

"He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit." Gal 3:14

Who is the promise for?

To Abraham and to his seed. Not seeds = genetic Jews. To his seed = Jesus and all who are in Jesus = Christians. Gal 3:16

Thanks...was getting hoarse from my caps button being stuck...

 

[musterion]

True yes - that is the ultimate result.

And now "heirs together with Israel."

I know you desperately need it to make your point but the NIV added "with Israel."

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/3-6.htm

 

[musterion]

The purpose of the New Covenant: "For this reason, Christ is mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance."

Who has he called?

"even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles...." Rom. 9:24

What is the promised eternal inheritance?

"He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit." Gal 3:14

Who is the promise for?

To Abraham and to his seed. Not seeds = genetic Jews. To his seed = Jesus and all who are in Jesus = Christians. Gal 3:16

All totally apart from Israel and her covenant.

 

[clefty]

I know you desperately need it to make your point but the NIV added "with Israel."

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/3-6.htm

Is why I prefer “people of God”...Heb 4:9

And best is to actually designate which god...Yah...

So “people of Yah”...

 

[Right Divider]

How much Abrahamic DNA is required to partake in the New Covenant? 50%? 5%?

Fallacious question.

Israel was Abraham's GRANDSON.

The message of John the Baptist, Jesus, and Paul resonate with the message: genetic linkage to Abraham profits nothing.

You've missing some of the points that they were making.

God could make descendants of Abraham out of rocks - which clearly don't have any Abrahamic DNA.

You should learn to understand figures of speech. No wonder the Bible confuses you. It uses a LOT of figures of speech.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Note as well that James assumed and expected the crowding gentiles to continue to hear Moses read to them EVERY SABBATH...

The Gentile believers were never under the law of Moses.

Why do you refuse to believe that?

 

[clefty]

Fallacious question.

Israel was Abraham's GRANDSON.

Actually Jacob the supplanter was Abraham’s grandson...genetically

He was “reborn” spiritually as Israel...the son of another promise from above...

You've missing some of the points that they were making.

yeah like circumcision doesn’t matter and uncircumcision doesn’t matter but keeping His commandments does...

You should learn to understand figures of speech. No wonder the Bible confuses you. It uses a LOT of figures of speech.

I know right?...some even believe conflating physical with spiritual...like bread His actual flesh...a golden calf actually Him...biological Israel still relevant though killing Him annulling their marriage contract...

OR Nailing stone to wood...LOL

 

[clefty]

The Gentile believers were never under the law of Moses.

Why do you refuse to believe that?

“...For the Bible tells me so...”

know that tune?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

“...For the Bible tells me so...”

know that tune?

The Bible says that the Gentiles are not under the law so why do you deny it?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

When the nation of Israel was in covenant relationship with God circumcision was a requirement for the sons of Israel and any uncirumcised male was cut off from that nation:

"This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you...And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant" (Gen.17:10-11,14).​

On the other hand, circumcision profits no one during the Church age, as witnessed by Paul's words here:

"For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love" (Gal.5:6).​

The Scriptures reveal that when the nation of Israel was in a covenant relationship with the LORD the children of Israel were a special people unto Himself:

"For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth" (Deut.7:6).​

On the other hand, during the Church age there are no special people unto the LORD except for believers and in the Body of Christ there is no distinction between the Jews and those of other nationalities:

"And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all" (Col.3:10-11).​

These facts serve to prove that when the LORD's program for Israel is in view then that program cannot be about the Body of Christ because His two different programs are mutually exclusive. In other words, when the Divine plan toward Israel is in effect then the children of Israel are above all people on the face of the earth so therefore it is impossible that at the same time the Divine plan is also toward the Body of Christ where there is no difference between the two.

So the New Covenant which was promised to the house of Jacob and the house of Israel is exclusively in regard to God's program for Israel and has nothing to do with the Body of Christ.

 

[Jacob]

In Jeremiah 31 the new covenant is said to be made specifically with the “house of Israel and the house of Judah.”

How do Christians partake in this covenant? What are you thoughts?

Are Christians "grafted in" to Israel? If so, can a Christian consider him/herself to be a member of the house of Israel and expect all the promises made to Israel?

If you think Christians are partakers of the New Covenant, but still think there are special specific promises that only ethnic Israel is privy to, what is your reasoning?

I don't follow all that you say here, but I can say that you are on to something. The new covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. What is who grafted in to? Can a Christian say that they are of the house of Israel and the house of Judah or the house of Israel or the house of Judah? What about salvation? Can a Gentile be saved? Are converts who worship God now, or those who turn to God from among the Gentiles, no longer Gentiles? Different from a discussion about Jewish converts or converts to Judaism or Israel.

 

[Jacob]

What is the difference between Israel and the Body of Christ if there is one?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What is the difference between Israel and the Body of Christ if there is one?

Did you not read my post? In the Body there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile but when Israel was in covenant relationship with the children of Israel they were a special people unto the LORD, above all people who are on the face of the earth.

 

[Jacob]

Did you not read my post? In the Body there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile but when Israel was in covenant relationship with the children of Israel they were a special people unto the LORD, above all people who are on the face of the earth.

I have gone through the thread but I didn't notice that about any post of yours. What do you mean by saying that Israel was in covenant with the children of Israel? Does not God still have a covenant with the nation of Israel? Would a new covenant replace or add to that? If it is a new covenant who is it for?

 

[clefty]

Did you not read my post? In the Body there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile but when Israel was in covenant relationship with the children of Israel they were a special people unto the LORD, above all people who are on the face of the earth.

lol...most narcissists in a relationship with themselves think themselves special...

 

[clefty]

The Bible says that the Gentiles are not under the law so why do you deny it?

I listed multiple texts that showed gentiles were even under the old law...

Right in the sabbath commandment it is written that the prohibition to work extended to strangers...you know da goyim...the gentiles

If you think believers should not commit adultery or steal or murder or worship false gods etc or even eat meat strangled or with blood in it as per mid acts counseling...then they should also rest from work the seventh day

Under grace IN HIM and spirit led and to love someone AS I HAVE LOVED YOU does indeed fulfill the law as the person doing this is following Him as He walked and lived

Gentiles are to love yes? Like the world does? Or is their love different somehow?

James concluded after the four rules of fellowship were established that the gentiles would continue to hear Moses read in every city on the Sabbath...