Is the Law meant as a way of being "saved" or getting to heaven?

Ben Masada

New member
Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God. (That's the NT in a nutshell.)

We only live twice. (That's the OT in a nutshell.)

Flesh and blood, Biblically speaking, means mortal, mortal man; the one who cannot live forever. Opposite to God Who is eternal in His Kingdom. Can you provide a quote to evidence your assumption that we live twice? What I have is that once dead, no one will ever rise from the grave. (II Samuel 12:23; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9; Psalm 49:12,20)That's classic evidence that we live once only.
 

Ben Masada

New member
His kingdom is his family.

Yes Jamie, I agree with you on that one. The Kingdom of God is His family whose children are the People of Israel acknowledged by the Almighty Himself as: "Israel is My Son; let My Son go that he may serve Me." (Exodus 4:22,23)
 

chair

Well-known member
Please, read Psalm 119. There are many verses in that Psalm with the same logical guarantee of verse 93. "I will never neglect Your precepts, for You have preserved my life through them." If the Lord has preserved our life through the observance of the Law, it is only obvious that we have achieved salvation from all sorts of life troubles as a result of obedience of God's Law. To have our life preserved is the same as to have it saved.

This is not the Christian concept of being "saved".
 

chair

Well-known member
Genesis 2:17 for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.

Now do you see?

I see, but apparently not what you see. The threat is death, plain and simple. You are going to say "yes, but Adam didn't die a physical death! Therefor God meant 'spiritual death'." Or maybe "there was no physical death until Adam ate that fruit" - which one is it?

But the verse doesn't say any of that.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
I see, but apparently not what you see. The threat is death, plain and simple. You are going to say "yes, but Adam didn't die a physical death! Therefor God meant 'spiritual death'." Or maybe "there was no physical death until Adam ate that fruit" - which one is it?

But the verse doesn't say any of that.

surely die ... מ֥וֹת תָּמֽוּת׃

Surely is Strong's 4191 & die is Strong's 4191.

What is your interpretation?
 

chair

Well-known member
surely die ... מ֥וֹת תָּמֽוּת׃

Surely is Strong's 4191 & die is Strong's 4191.

What is your interpretation?

The verse says that he will die. just plain death. It is a fact that Adam did not die afterwards, despite the threat. But the threat was death, and it was a concept that Adam was familiar with.
 

chair

Well-known member
The law is made to restrain us and punish us if we go past its lines. Unfortunately all sin requires blood. This is why I often am confused at jewish people who pray for forgiveness. They don't have a messiah (Jesus) who is their sacrifice yet they live their lives without sacrifice. It's the same as living lawless in my eyes.

Christians sometimes insist that "sin requires blood". It is true that some sacrifices are for sin, but many are not. And if "sin requires blood"- then the claim of Jesus as the ultimate blood sacrifice rings hollow. Why have God's son die, when a few more sheep in teh Temple will suffice?


There are several cases in the Bible when God forgives as a result of prayer. Ever read the Book of Jonah?
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The verse says that he will die. just plain death. It is a fact that Adam did not die afterwards, despite the threat. But the threat was death, and it was a concept that Adam was familiar with.

And he did, but God didn't stutter. There is physical which anyone can do and there is spiritual death which requires the rejection of Jesus Christ.
 

Ben Masada

New member
The law is made to restrain us and punish us if we go past its lines. Unfortunately all sin requires blood. This is why I often am confused at jewish people who pray for forgiveness. They don't have a messiah (Jesus) who is their sacrifice yet they live their lives without sacrifice. It's the same as living lawless in my eyes.

The Law was made neither to restrain nor to punish us but to show us what we have done. What restrains us is our Freewill if we make good use of it and what punishes us are the "magistrates" or the consequences of our transgressions as in the law of cause & effect.

It is not simply praying for forgiveness that forgiveness comes. We must set things right with HaShem so that our sins, from scarlet red become as white as snow through repentance and return to the obedience of God's Law. (Isaiah 1:18,19)

We spent 70 years in Babylon without a Temple and sacrifices; at the end of that time, our sins that had caused that exile had been expiated without a single sacrifice. (Dan. 9:24) it means that sacrifices never had the role to forgive sins. Sacrifices were added by Moses only to make the exodus easier to happen. The truth of the matter is that HaShem never commanded that sacrifices be part of the religion of Israel. (Jeremiah 7:22)

Last but not least, Jesus could have never been a sacrifice for our sins because he knew that it would be against the Prophets of the Most High to die for the sins of another. (Ezekiel 12:3,20)
 
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