SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
the pope is infallible
he isn't when he speaks ex cathedra?
the pope is infallible
Like i said wolves in sheep's clothing
The best way to discover the beliefs of the dead is to study their writings. Both Brooke Foss Westcott and Fenton John Anthony Hort wrote extensively. Here are some of their beliefs, as revealed by their own writings:
I'll leave you with this, its about a couple of wolves in sheep's clothing that were allowed to doctor the scriptures.
People are now saying that the Authorized King James Bible is wrong because they have believed the scholarship of these two blaspheming infidels. You will read their words for yourself in this article.
Westcott and Hort's Greek New Testament is the "source text" for many of today's modern Bible translations. These men were hereticks. [The personal letters of Hort and Westcott sound like the letters of men of the Jesuit order (that is, if you know the Roman Catholic Jesuits. If you are a Christian, I highly suggest that you read the The Deception Series. Not only will you know more about the Jesuits and their activities, you will become more acquainted with yourself, the problems with the visible church, Revelation 17, and these end times.)
Again, Westcott and Hort's Greek New Testament is the "source text" for today's modern Bible versions. Let us examine what Westcott and Hort actually believed.
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/hort.htm
everready
Like i said wolves in sheep's clothing
The best way to discover the beliefs of the dead is to study their writings. Both Brooke Foss Westcott and Fenton John Anthony Hort wrote extensively. Here are some of their beliefs, as revealed by their own writings:
Did not believe in the miracles of the Bible - Westcott in 1847: "1 never read an account of a miracle but I seem instinctively to feel its improbability and discover some want of evidence in the account of it."
Did not believe in the infallibility of the scriptures. - Westcott to Hort in 1860: "1 reject the word infallibility of Holy Scripture overwhelming." Hort to Lightfoot in 1860: "If you make a decided conviction of the absolute infallibility of the N. T., I fear I could not join you, even if you were willing to forget your fears about the origin of the Gospels."
Did not believe in the supernatural creation - Hort to Westcott in 1860: "... Have you read Darwin? How I should like to talk with you about it! In spite of difficulties, I am inclined to think it unanswerable. In any case, it is a treat to read such a book. " Hort to Ellerton in 1860 "But the book which has most engaged me is Darwin. Whatever may be thought of it, it is a book that one is proud to be contemporary with. I must work out and examine the argument more in detail, but at present my feeling is strong that the theory is unanswerable."
Did not believe in the efficacy (power) of the atonement - Hort: "The fact is, I do not see how God's justice can be satisfies without every man 's suffering in his own person the full penalty for his sins."
Westcott and Hort were clearly Anti-protestant (pro-Catholic sympathizers) Hort: "I think I mentioned to you before Campbell's book on the Atonement, which is invaluable as far as it goes; but unluckily he know nothing except Protestant theology."
Believed in the necessity of purgatory - Hort to Ellerton: "But the idea of purgation, of cleansing as by fire seems to me inseparable from what the Bible teaches us of the Divine chastisements..."
Believed in the communist system - Westcott: "I suppose I am a communist by nature." Hort: "I cannot say that I see much as yet to soften my deep hatred for democracy in all its forms." Hort: "I cannot at present see any objection to a limit being placed by the State upon the amount of property which any one person may possess ... I would say that the co-operative principle is a better and a mightier than the competitive principle."
Believed in prayers for the dead - Westcott: "We agreed unanimously that we are, as things are now, forbidden to pray for the dead apart from the whole church in our public services. No restriction is placed upon private devotions (to pray for the dead)."
The Roman Catholic system has greatly profited from the money paid for saying Mass for loved ones that have died.
Believed in the worship of Mary - Hort: "I am very far from pretending to understand completely the ever renewed vitality of Mariolatry. ...I have been persuaded for many years that Mary-worship and Jesus-worship' have very much in common in their causes and their results." (Westcott compelled his wife Sarah Louisa to take the name Mary in addition to her given name.)
Believed in the sacraments (sacrifices) Hort: "Still we dare not forsake the Sacraments, or God will forsake us."
Believed in baptismal regeneration - Westcott: "By birth he may, if he will, truly live here; by baptism he may if he will, truly live forever. ... I do think we have no right to exclaim against the idea of the commencement of a spiritual life, conditionally from Baptism, any more than we have to deny the commencement of a moral life from birth." Hort: "We maintain 'Baptismal Regeneration ' as the most important of doctrines ...the pure Romish view seems to me nearer, and more likely to lead to the truth than the Evangelical."
Acknowledged their heretical positions - Hort to Ellerton: "Possibly you have not heard that I have become Harold Browne's Examining Chaplain. I have only seen him two or three times in my life, not at all intimately, and was amazed when he made the proposal, in the kindest terms. I wrote to warn him that I was not safe or traditional in my theology, and that I could not give up association with heretics and such like. Westcott to Lightfoot: "It is strange, but all the questionable doctrines which I have ever maintained are in it (a particular book lacking the fundamentals)."
http://scatteredchristians.org/WescottHort.html
everready
i don't see this as a game, maybe to Westcott & Hort it was a game.
Westcott & Hort
Did not believe in a literal heaven.
Did not believe in the literal second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ
Did not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ's literal 1,000-year reign on earth.
Did not believe in the reality of angels.
Denied the Trinity's oneness.
Doubted the soul's existence apart from the body.
Did not believe in a literal Devil.
It is hard to imagine, after reading what these two men believed, how any Christian that espouses the fundamentals of the faith could align himself with the likes of these two characters. However, every person choosing a modern version over the King James Bible does just that. He aligns himself with two men who despised the very things that mos Christians hold sacred. Their influence can be seen directly in the revision of 1881 and indirectly in every modern version since that time.
The King James Bible New Testament comes from the Majority Text (that is, from those manuscripts that agree with each other and are most prevalent.) Unlike the translators of 1611, Westcott and Hort rejected the Majority Text and relied heavily on the Alexandrian manuscripts which included the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus manuscripts. These two men regarded the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus as authoritative, yet these two manuscripts disagree with each other over 3,000 times in the Gospels alone. These two manuscripts have greatly influenced every modern version on the market today and form the basis for 99% of them.
http://scatteredchristians.org/WescottHort.html
everready
Humbug! Westcott and Hort were ordained ministers of God. David Stewart is simply regurgitating the same old lies that all KJV-Onlyists spout and the Westcott-Hort Text is NOT the source for all modern versions; we have moved on, unlike some, since the 1850s.
It is hard to imagine, after reading what these two men believed, how any Christian that espouses the fundamentals of the faith could align himself with the likes of these two characters. However, every person choosing a modern version over the King James Bible does just that. He aligns himself with two men who despised the very things that mos Christians hold sacred.
Every single one of these is taken out of context and deliberately, in some cases, manipulated to make Westcott & Hort seem to say something that they were not.
I recognize a lot of them are taken out of context. Just waiting for the "Westcott and Hort were spiritualists that held seances" charge to come up.
Sounds like the both of you are Jesuit trained.
everready
he isn't when he speaks ex cathedra?
Ah, KJV-onlyism; a heresy which equates what bible you use with whether or not you are an heir to salvation. You attack translators, you attack those who use other bibles. You ignore what I have said and prefer your own interpretation of my words. You are a dog in the manger, you will not yourself eat and you prevent others from eating as well.
For the THIRD TIME, every English translation by reputable scholars is the Word of God. How much clearer do I need to be?
What do you do about King James' homosexuality? Look the other way? The man that commissioned the King James Bible was gay.
Humbug! Westcott and Hort were ordained ministers of God. David Stewart is simply regurgitating the same old lies that all KJV-Onlyists spout and the Westcott-Hort Text is NOT the source for all modern versions; we have moved on, unlike some, since the 1850s.
Do you mean scholars like the closet Lesbian who wrote the introduction to the NIV?For the THIRD TIME, every English translation by reputable scholars is the Word of God. How much clearer do I need to be?
"[Virginia Mollenkott writes] 'I worked on the NIV during the entire time it was being translated and reviewed, although I was never free to attend the summer sessions even when I was invited to do so. Elisabeth Elliot and I were the Stylistic Consultants: our job was simply to make sure the translation would communicate clearly to modern American readers, and that the style was as smooth and understandable as possible. I was never removed, sacked, or made redundant from my work on the NIV; if I were, my name would not have appeared on the list sent out by the IBS. It was Dr. Edwin Palmer, who lived near my college, who invited me to work on the NIV. He had heard me speak and respected my integrity and my knowledge. So far as I know, nobody including Dr. Palmer suspected that I was lesbian while I was working on the NIV; it was information I kept private at that time. ' http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/woudstra.htm |
I'm not. I went to an IFB KJVO Baptist church in my youth. Believe me, I've heard all the arguments about the King James Bible being the only accurate and true Bible translated into English, how the Critical Text is "corrupt", how Westcott and Hort were heretics, etc. etc. I would use these arguments until I did the research and found them mistaken and unreliable, sometimes downright lies.
I now prefer the NIV (the Not Inspired Version, as they used to call it at my old church.)
So, what do you do about King James' homosexuality?
What about the obfuscation of homosexuality in the KJV at 1 Cor. 6:9?
In any event, I have enjoyed reading your post in this thread.