Is the Bible the only sacred texts and why or why not.

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
freedom from jealous gods................

freedom from jealous gods................

You go against the written Word of God.

You don't like the scriptures of the Holy Bible.

The Holy Bible says that God is a jealous God.

That is about Godly jealousy.

You might promote homosexual marriages and claim you are not jealous of your spouse being with another; but how dare you compare your perverted love to God's love.

I understand how a human quality or trait could be ascribed to 'God', since we are made in his image, but sometimes it seems we are making 'God' in our own image, by some subterfuge of 'mirror psychology', but that kinda comes with the territory ;)

I'm criticizing the 'god' of the OT being far too 'jealous' for his own good perhaps, which further questions the 'goodness' of said deity as being a 'lesser god' or 'demiurge', somewhat imperfect, capricious, self-possessed,..... while a more perfect all-transcendent 'God' reigns as the The Universal Father of all, who is beyond name and form, the 'God' Jesus came to reveal to break man free from the domain of the demiurge or lesser gods, demons, etc. This is more of a Marcionite and Gnostic view, nuanced in various ways, but a fun theory to explore :)
 

popsthebuilder

New member
90 Verses That Say: Jesus is Not God Nor the Literal Son of God

90 Verses says: Jesus is not God

Compiled by Adenino Otari

All four Gospels record Jesus as saying, “Blessed are the peace-makers; they will be called sons of God.”

The word ‘son’ cannot be accepted literally because in the Bible, God apparently addresses many of his chosen servants as ‘son’ and ‘sons.’ The Hebrews believed God is One, and had neither wife nor children in any literal sense. Therefore, it is obvious the expression ‘son of God’ merely meant ‘Servant of God’; one who, because of faithful service, was close and dear to God as a son is to his father.

Christians who came from a Greek or Roman background, later misused this term. In their heritage, ‘son of God’ signified an incarnation of a god or someone born of a physical union between male and female gods. This can be seen in Acts 14: 11-13, where we read that when Paul and Barnabas preached in a city of Turkey, pagans claimed they were gods incarnate. They called Barnabas the Roman god Zeus, and Paul the Roman god Hermes.

Furthermore, the New Testament Greek word translated as ‘son’ are ‘pias’ and ‘paida’ which mean ‘servant,’ or ‘son in the sense of servant.’ These are translated to ‘son’ in reference to Jesus and ‘servant’ in reference to all others in some translations of the Bible. So, consistent with other verses, Jesus was merely saying that he is God’s servant.

Additional problems with Trinity

To a christian, God had to take human form to understand temptation and human suffering, but the concept is not based on any clear words of Jesus. In contrast, God does not need to be tempted and suffer in order to be able to understand and forgive man’s sins, for He is the all knowing Creator of man. This is expressed in the verse:

‘And the Lord said: ‘I have surely seen the affliction of My people that are in Egypt, and I have heard their cry because of their taskmasters; for I know their pains.’ (Exodus 3:7)

God forgave sin before Jesus’ appearance, and He continues to forgive without any assistance. When a believer sins, he may come before God in sincere repentance to receive forgiveness. Indeed, the offer to humble oneself before God and be saved is made to all humankind.

‘And there is no God else beside Me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside Me. Look to Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is none else.’ (Isaiah 45:21-22, Jonah 3:5-10)

Biblically, people can receive forgiveness of sins through sincere repentance sought directly from God. This is true at all times and in all places. There has never been a need for the so-called inter cessionary role Jesus plays in attaining atonement. The facts speak for themselves. There is no truth to the Christian belief that Jesus died for our sins and salvation is only through Jesus. What about the salvation of people before Jesus? Jesus’ death brings neither atonement from sin, nor is it in any way a fulfillment of biblical prophecy.

Christians claim that in the birth of Jesus, there occurred the miracle of the incarnation of God in the form of a human being. To say that God became truly a human being invites a number of questions. Let us ask the following about the man-God Jesus. What happened to his foreskin after his circumcision (Luke 2:21)?

Did it ascend to heaven, or did it decompose as with any human piece of flesh? During his lifetime what happened to his hair, nails, and blood shed from wounds? Did the cells of his body die as in ordinary human beings? If his body did not function in a truly human way, he could not be truly human as well as truly God. Yet, if his body functioned exactly in a human way, this would nullify any claim to divinity. It would be impossible for any part of God, even if incarnate, to decompose in any way and still be considered God. The everlasting, one God, in whole or in part, does not die, disintegrate, or decompose: ‘For I the Lord do not change.’ (Malachi 3:6)

Did Jesus’ flesh dwell in safety after his death?

Unless Jesus’ body never underwent ‘decay’ during his lifetime he could not be God, but if it did not undergo ‘decay’ then he was not truly human.

Bible says that God is not man

‘God is not a man’ (Numbers 23:19)

‘For I am God, and not man’ (Hosea 11:9)

Jesus is called a man many times in the Bible

‘a man who has told you the truth’ (John 8:40)

‘Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.’ (Acts 2:22)

‘He will judge the world in righteousness through a man whom He has appointed’ (Acts 17:31)

‘the man Christ Jesus’ (Tim. 2:5)

The Bible says that God is not a son of man

‘God is not a man nor a son of man’ (Numbers 23:19)

The Bible often calls Jesus ‘a son of man’ or ‘the son of man.’

‘so will the son of man be’ (Matthew 12:40)

‘For the son of man is going to come’ (Matthew 16:27)

‘until they see the son of man coming in His kingdom.’ (Matthew 28)

‘But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority’ (Mark 2:10)

‘because he is the son of man’ (John 5:27)

In the Hebrew scriptures, the ‘son of man’ is also used many times speaking of people (Job 25:6; Psalm 80:17; 144:3; Ezekiel 2:1; 2:3; 2:6-8; 3:1-3).Since God would not contradict Himself by first saying He is not the son of a man, then becoming a human being who was called ‘the son of man’, he would not have done so. Remember God is not the author of confusion. Also, human beings, including Jesus, are called ‘son of man’ specifically to distinguish them from God, who is not a ‘son of man’ according to the Bible.

The Bible says that Jesus denied he is God

Jesus spoke to a man who had called him ‘good,’ asking him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.’ (Luke 18:19)

And he said to him, ‘Why are you asking me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.’ (Matthew 19:17)

Jesus did not teach people that he was God

If Jesus had been telling people that he was God, he would have complimented the man. Instead, Jesus rebuked him, denying he was good, that is, Jesus denied he was God.

The Bible says that God is greater than Jesus

‘My Father is greater than I’ (John 14:28)

‘My father is greater than all.’ (John 10:29)

Jesus can not be God if God is greater than him. The Christian belief that the Father and son are equal is in direct contrast to the clear words from Jesus.

Jesus never instructed his disciples to worship him

‘When you pray, say Our Father which art in heaven.’ (Luke 11:2)

‘In that day, you shall ask me nothing. Whatsoever you ask of the Father in my name.’ (John 16:23)

‘The hour cometh and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him.’ (John 4:23)

If Jesus was God, he would have sought worship for himself

Since he didn’t, instead he sought worship for God in the heavens, therefore, he was not God.

Jesus worshipped the only true God

‘that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.’ (John 17:3)

‘he continued all night in prayer to God.’ (Luke 6:12)

‘Just as the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve’ (Matthew 20:28)

How did Jesus pray to God?

‘he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father’ (Matthew 26:39)

‘During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.’ (Hebrews 5:7)

Who was Jesus praying to when he fell on his face?

Was Jesus crying in tears to himself pleading to be saved from death? No man, sane or insane, prays to himself! Surely the answer must be a resounding ‘No.’ Jesus was praying to ‘the only true God.’ Jesus was the servant of the One Who sent him. Can there be a clearer proof that Jesus was not God?

The Quran confirms that Jesus called for the worship of the Only True God:

“It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.” (Quran 3:51)

Disciples did not believe Jesus was God

The Acts of the Apostles in the Bible details the activity of the disciples over a period of thirty years after Jesus was raised to heaven. Throughout this period, they never referred to Jesus as God. For instance Peter stood up with the eleven disciples and addressed a crowd saying:

‘Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.’ (Acts 2:22)

For Peter, Jesus was a servant of God (Confirmed In Matthew 12:18)

‘The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.’ (Acts 3:13)

‘God raised up his servant’ (Acts 3:26)

When faced by opposition from the authorities, Peter said

‘We must obey God rather than men! The God of our fathers raised Jesus’ (Acts 5:29-30)

The disciples prayed to God just as they were commanded by Jesus in Luke 11:2, and considered Jesus to be God’s servant.

‘they raised their voices together in prayer to God. ‘Sovereign Lord,’ they said, ‘you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.’ (Acts 4:24)

‘your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.’ (Acts 4:27)

‘of Your holy servant Jesus.’ (Acts 4:30)

‘I am indeed a servant of God.’ (Quran 19:30)

The Bible says that Jesus was God’s servant

‘Behold, My servant, whom I have chosen, in whom My soul is well pleased.’ (Matt 12:18) Since Jesus is God’s servant, Jesus can not be God.

The Bible says that Jesus could not do anything by himself

‘The son can do nothing by himself; he can only do what he sees his Father doing.’ (John 5:19)

‘I can of mine own self do nothing.’ (John 5:30)

The Bible says that Jesus did not consider himself equal with God

and that God performed miracles through Jesus & Jesus was limited in what he could do:

‘But when the crowds saw this, they were awestruck, and glorified God, who had given such authority to men.’ (Matt. 9:8)

‘a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst.’ (Acts 2:22)

‘he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.’ (Acts 10:38)

If Christ was God, the Bible would simply say that Jesus did the miracles himself without making reference to God. The fact that it was God supplying the power for the miracles shows that God is greater than Jesus.

Also, Jesus was limited in performing miracles

One time when Jesus tried to heal a blind man, the man was not healed after the first attempt, and Jesus had to try a second time (Mark 8:22-26).

Once a woman was healed of her incurable bleeding. The woman came up behind him and touched his cloak, and she was immediately healed. But Jesus had no idea who touched him:

‘At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, ‘Who touched my clothes?’ (Mark 5:30)

‘He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them.’ (Mark 6:5)

Quite obviously, someone with such limitations can not be God. The power of miracles was not within Jesus.

The Bible says that at times of weakness angels strengthened Jesus

God ,however, does not need to be strengthened. Human need to be strengthened; God does not because God is All-Powerful. If Jesus had to be strengthened, he must not be God.

‘An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him – in the garden of Gethsemane’ (Luke 22:43)

‘Then the devil left him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him’ (Mark. 1:13)

‘And he was in the wilderness forty days being tempted by Satan; and he was with the wild beasts, and the angels were ministering to him.’ (Mark 1:13)

The Bible says that Jesus wanted God’s will to be done

‘not my will but Yours be done.’ (Luke 22:42)

‘I do not seek my own will, but the will of Him who sent me.’ (John 5:30)

‘For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me.’ (John 6:38)

Are some members of the coequal Trinity subservient, and less than equal, to other members? Even though they have different wills (‘I do not seek my own will’), do they obey without question the others’ commands (‘the will of Him who sent me’)? Jesus admits to subordinating his own distinct will, yet according to the Trinitarian doctrine they should all have the same will. Should one of the triune partners have to forgo his own will in favor of the will of another member of the Trinity? Should not they all have the exact same will?

The Bible says Jesus regarded himself and God as two

‘I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father.’ (John 8:17-18:)

‘Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.’ (John 14:1)

If Jesus was God, He would have not have regarded God’s testimony as separate from his own.

The Bible says that Jesus is subordinate to God

‘Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.’ (1 Corinthians 11:3)

‘When he has done this, then the son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.’ (1 Corinthians 15:28)

Bible says that Jesus grew in wisdom & learning

But God is All Wise & does not need to learn: Jesus grew in wisdom, but God is all wise ‘Great is our Lord and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite.’ (Psalms 147:5)

‘And Jesus increased in wisdom.’ (Luke 2:52)

God does not need to learn, but Jesus learned: ‘Although he was a son, he learned obedience’ (Heb. 5:8)

Jesus had limited knowledge, but god’s knowledge is infinite. Since Jesus did not know, he was not all-knowing, and therefore, he cannot be the God whose knowledge is all-encompassing.

‘No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the son, but only the Father.’ (Mark 13:32)

Bible says that Jesus was tempted, but God cannot be tempted

’tempted in every way – just as we are’ (Heb. 4:15)

‘for God cannot be tempted by evil’ (James 1:13)

Since God can not be tempted, but Jesus was, therefore, Jesus was not God.

Bible says that Jesus’ teachings were from God, not from himself

‘So Jesus answered them and said, ‘My teaching is not mine, but His who sent me.’ (John 7:16)

Jesus could not have said this if he were God because the doctrine would have been his.

Bible says that Jesus died, but God cannot die

The Bible teaches that Jesus died. God cannot die. Romans 1:23 and other verses say that God is immortal. Immortal means, ‘not subject to death.’ This term applies only to God.

Bible says that Jesus lived because of God

‘I live because of the Father.’ (John 6:57)

Jesus cannot be God because he depended on God for his own existence.

Bible says that Jesus’ powers were given to him

‘All power is given unto me.’ (Matt 28:18)

God is all-powerful, no one gives God His powers, otherwise He would not be God because He would be weak. Therefore, Jesus could not be God.

Bible says that Jesus was taught & commanded by God

‘As my Father hath taught me, I speak these things,’ (John 8:28)

‘The Father, who sent me, he gave me a commandment.’ (John 12:49)

‘I have kept my Father’s commandments.’ (John 15:10)

No one can teach God, otherwise God cannot be All-Knowing and would owe His teacher. Since Jesus was taught and commanded by God, Jesus cannot be God himself. The teacher and the student, the commander and the commanded are not one.

Bible says that God made Jesus ‘Lord’!

‘God has made this Jesus both Lord and Christ.’ (Acts 2:36)

‘Lord’ is used in many ways in the Bible, and others beside God and Jesus are called ‘Lord.’ For example:

1) property owners (Matt. 20:8)

2) heads of households (Mark 13:35)

3) slave owners (Matt. 10:24)

4) husbands (1 Pet. 3:6)

5) a son called his father Lord (Matt. 21:30)

6) the Roman Emperor was called Lord (Acts 25:26)

7) Roman authorities were called Lord (Matt. 27:63)

‘Lord’ is not the same as ‘God.’ ‘Lord’ (the Greek word is kurios) is a masculine title of respect and nobility used many times in the Bible. If Jesus was God, then for the Bible to say he was ‘made’ Lord would make no sense.

Bible says that Jesus was lower than angels

‘But we do see him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus.’ (Hebrews 2:9)

God, the Creator of angels, can not be lower than His own creation, but Jesus was. Therefore, Jesus was not God.

Bible says that Jesus called the Father ‘my God’

‘My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?’ (Matt. 27:46)

‘I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.’ (John 20:17)

‘the temple of my God the name of my God the city of my God comes down out of heaven from my God.’ (Rev. 3:12)

Jesus did not think of himself as God, instead Jesus’ God is the same as ours.

Bible says that God cannot be seen

But Jesus was seen by others ‘no man has seen God at any time.’ (John 1:18)

Bible says twice that Jesus was accused of being God

But he denied it: According to the Bible, on only two instances the Jews opposed Jesus on the basis that he pretended to be God or equal with God. Had Jesus, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, claimed to be God, he is likely to have been opposed on this basis more frequently.

Because in these two instances, when charged, in the one case, with making himself God, and in the other, with making himself equal with God, he denied the charges. In reply to the charge of being an equal with God, he says immediately:

‘The son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do’; and directly after ‘I can of mine own self do nothing.’ (John 5:19, 30)

In answer to the charge of making himself God, he appeals to the Jews in substance thus: Your own Scriptures call Moses a god, and your magistrates gods; I am surely not inferior to them, yet I did not call myself God, but only the ‘son’ of God (John 10:34-36).

This is unlikely to have been Jesus’ actual response. Hastings in ‘The Dictionary of the Bible’ says, ‘Whether Jesus used it of himself is doubtful.’ Grolier’s encyclopedia, under the heading ‘Jesus Christ,’ says, ‘it is uncertain whether the Father/Son language (Mark 18:32; Matt. 11:25-27 Par.; John Passim) goes back to Jesus himself.’ A University of Richmond professor, Dr. Robert Alley, after considerable research into newly found ancient documents concludes that:

‘The (Biblical) passages where Jesus talks about the Son of God are later additions. what the church said about him. Such a claim of deity for himself would not have been consistent with his entire lifestyle as we can reconstruct. For the first three decades after Jesus’ death Christianity continued as a sect within Judaism. The first three decades of the existence of the church were within the synagogue. That would have been beyond belief if they (the followers) had boldly proclaimed the deity of Jesus.’

Assuming Jesus did say that he was ‘son’ of God. What did it mean? We first need to know the language of his people, the language of the Jews to whom he was speaking.

The Bible says God had many ‘sons’

First, most people think there are no other verses that contradict or give equal divine sonship to other persons in the Old or New Testament.

For Jesus to be called son of God, does not make him a true son of God, other wise Adam, Jacob, Ephraim and many more should also be considered as been sons of God as such they should be worshiped too according to such method.

Adam: ‘Adam, which was the son of God.’ (Luke 3:38)

Jacob is God’s son and firstborn: ‘Israel is my son, even my firstborn.’ (Exodus 4:22)

Solomon: ‘I will be his father, and he shall be my son.’ (2 Samuel 7:13-14)

Ephraim: ‘for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.’ (Jeremiah 31:9)

Is God’s firstborn, common people are called the sons of God: ‘Ye are the children of the Lord your God’ (Deuteronomy 14:1)



Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 

God's Truth

New member
.....
First, most people think there are no other verses that contradict or give equal divine sonship to other persons in the Old or New Testament.

For Jesus to be called son of God, does not make him a true son of God, other wise Adam, Jacob, Ephraim and many more should also be considered as been sons of God as such they should be worshiped too according to such method.

Adam: ‘Adam, which was the son of God.’ (Luke 3:38)

Jacob is God’s son and firstborn: ‘Israel is my son, even my firstborn.’ (Exodus 4:22)

Solomon: ‘I will be his father, and he shall be my son.’ (2 Samuel 7:13-14)

Ephraim: ‘for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.’ (Jeremiah 31:9)

Is God’s firstborn, common people are called the sons of God: ‘Ye are the children of the Lord your God’ (Deuteronomy 14:1)



Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

This is an evil attempt to draw suspicion and mistrust to the Holy Bible.

I have already given scriptures that say Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.


Editing to shorten the post from Pop's that I quoted, and to add this note: Hi Pops, I didn't realize how long that post was of yours, and I figure that is why you are not here for awhile.
 
Last edited:

God's Truth

New member
I understand how a human quality or trait could be ascribed to 'God', since we are made in his image, but sometimes it seems we are making 'God' in our own image, by some subterfuge of 'mirror psychology', but that kinda comes with the territory ;)

I'm criticizing the 'god' of the OT being far too 'jealous' for his own good perhaps, which further questions the 'goodness' of said deity as being a 'lesser god' or 'demiurge', somewhat imperfect, capricious, self-possessed,..... while a more perfect all-transcendent 'God' reigns as the The Universal Father of all, who is beyond name and form, the 'God' Jesus came to reveal to break man free from the domain of the demiurge or lesser gods, demons, etc. This is more of a Marcionite and Gnostic view, nuanced in various ways, but a fun theory to explore :)

Nonsense.

There is Godly jealously that is good and right.

Your lifestyle is being revealed.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Nonsense.

There is Godly jealously that is good and right.

Your lifestyle is being revealed.

A god claiming to be jealous puts that god in the frame of human jealousy, unbefitting a true God, who is fully Self-sustained, complete and whole unto himself, as true Deity. True Deity does not suffer such a psychology, being already One and All. Universal Deity is also not subject to human monopolies or religious traditions, but makes his light shine unto all, as the undifferentiated Source of all.

If you want to define God as 'jealous' you'll have to explain it within a given context and description. Deity transcends such de-scriptions, unless we bring God down into human terms, proclivities and characteristics. Granted God includes all qualities and attributes, but also is without them.

Finally you'll find Jesus not quoting anything about God being 'jealous'. He is love, yes...but far greater than our conceptions thereof.
 

Zeke

Well-known member
I believe in the teachings of Bible, to include Jesus, the 12 Apostles and Paul not the traditions of the RCC. Where you got that from I have no idea.

You believe the foundational pillars erected by Rome, they gave you the human sacrifice motif Psalms 40:6, so you can pretend your not a sibling but the doctrines essentials were built on Rome's councils that presented ancient allegory Proverbs 1:6 as history so you are her offspring, making a glass darkly for you to build whatever you want on that foundation.

The abortion of primal wisdom in Christian scriptures is easily traceable through the developments of history to its perceptible causes. It came as a result of the decay of esoteric study from the third century forward, and the concomitant ignorance as to the specialized methodology employed by the ancients in sacred writing. In archaic times knowledge was put forth in strange language indeed. It was not written in plain terms to be most directly apprehended. It was embodied in a form that would at once conceal and reveal its meaning, for it was meant to be grasped by one group of people, the initiated, and missed by another, .. 3 .. the uninstructed. Therefore it was worked over into forms of a cryptic symbolism, for the interpretation of which certain keys were requisite. It was elaborated into myth, allegory, parable, fable, legend, astrological depiction and even numerological figurations. Paul declares the Abraham story in the Old Testament to be an allegory. The most intelligent parties in the Christian Church for some two and a half centuries took the entire Bible as allegory. Many schools, sects and brotherhoods, both before and after the beginning of the Christian era studied biblical writings as parables of man's spiritual life. Notable among these groups were the Essenes, about whom we take this sentence from the Encyclopedia Britannica in the article under their name: "The sacred books were preserved and read with great reverence, though not without an allegorical interpretation." A mass of further evidence could be adduced to confirm the claims in this respect. This recondite methodology of the ancient scriptural poets has caught and deceived modern scholarship. For when taken as factual occurrence and objective history, the "fabulous representation" of ancient books appears ridiculous, in spite of the fact that zealous pietism from the third century forward strove to make its conversion of myth into history as plausible and possible. Modern estimate of ancient intelligence has been based on the view that the writers of the old books believed in their myths as veridical fact! Do we not have the secret here of the moderns' mean opinion of ancient intelligence? It has been assumed that antiquity was so childish as to believe its own myths! But the childishness is all on our part, for such a baseless ascription. These seers and sages of an early age were more deeply instructed in the profound truths of our life than we yet are! But they consigned their wisdom to books--when it was entrusted to writing at all--under the forms of a disguise. And not in sixteen centuries has the western mind been astute enough to penetrate this veil and unmask the marvels of truth and knowledge lying beneath. Right here is found the reason why Christian theology has failed to solve the cabalistic enigma of the meaning of its own doctrinal material. For it approached ancient archaic literature with a preconception of its arrant inferiority, which precluded the imputation to it of merit or profundity. Nor did it rest until it had reduced the body of arcane writing to veritable nonsense, forcing upon the myths and upon their subtle devisers an alleged sense that was a frightful travesty of their true but hidden connotation. And it is easily demonstrable that certain weird manifestations cropping out in the life of medieval Christendom, and having repercussions down to this present, were engendered as the outcome of the general obfuscation of western mentality by the perversion of its heritage of spiritual wisdom to a jargon of incomprehensible theological absurdity. .. 4 ..Alvin Boyd Kuhn.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
You believe the foundational pillars erected by Rome, they gave you the human sacrifice motif Psalms 40:6, so you can pretend your not a sibling but the doctrines essentials were built on Rome's councils that presented ancient allegory Proverbs 1:6 as history so you are her offspring, making a glass darkly for you to build whatever you want on that foundation.

The abortion of primal wisdom in Christian scriptures is easily traceable through the developments of history to its perceptible causes. It came as a result of the decay of esoteric study from the third century forward, and the concomitant ignorance as to the specialized methodology employed by the ancients in sacred writing. In archaic times knowledge was put forth in strange language indeed. It was not written in plain terms to be most directly apprehended. It was embodied in a form that would at once conceal and reveal its meaning, for it was meant to be grasped by one group of people, the initiated, and missed by another, .. 3 .. the uninstructed. Therefore it was worked over into forms of a cryptic symbolism, for the interpretation of which certain keys were requisite. It was elaborated into myth, allegory, parable, fable, legend, astrological depiction and even numerological figurations. Paul declares the Abraham story in the Old Testament to be an allegory. The most intelligent parties in the Christian Church for some two and a half centuries took the entire Bible as allegory. Many schools, sects and brotherhoods, both before and after the beginning of the Christian era studied biblical writings as parables of man's spiritual life. Notable among these groups were the Essenes, about whom we take this sentence from the Encyclopedia Britannica in the article under their name: "The sacred books were preserved and read with great reverence, though not without an allegorical interpretation." A mass of further evidence could be adduced to confirm the claims in this respect. This recondite methodology of the ancient scriptural poets has caught and deceived modern scholarship. For when taken as factual occurrence and objective history, the "fabulous representation" of ancient books appears ridiculous, in spite of the fact that zealous pietism from the third century forward strove to make its conversion of myth into history as plausible and possible. Modern estimate of ancient intelligence has been based on the view that the writers of the old books believed in their myths as veridical fact! Do we not have the secret here of the moderns' mean opinion of ancient intelligence? It has been assumed that antiquity was so childish as to believe its own myths! But the childishness is all on our part, for such a baseless ascription. These seers and sages of an early age were more deeply instructed in the profound truths of our life than we yet are! But they consigned their wisdom to books--when it was entrusted to writing at all--under the forms of a disguise. And not in sixteen centuries has the western mind been astute enough to penetrate this veil and unmask the marvels of truth and knowledge lying beneath. Right here is found the reason why Christian theology has failed to solve the cabalistic enigma of the meaning of its own doctrinal material. For it approached ancient archaic literature with a preconception of its arrant inferiority, which precluded the imputation to it of merit or profundity. Nor did it rest until it had reduced the body of arcane writing to veritable nonsense, forcing upon the myths and upon their subtle devisers an alleged sense that was a frightful travesty of their true but hidden connotation. And it is easily demonstrable that certain weird manifestations cropping out in the life of medieval Christendom, and having repercussions down to this present, were engendered as the outcome of the general obfuscation of western mentality by the perversion of its heritage of spiritual wisdom to a jargon of incomprehensible theological absurdity. .. 4 ..Alvin Boyd Kuhn.

No I don't. I believe in salvation by grace through faith. Who are you to make any such assertion? No one!
 

Zeke

Well-known member
No I don't. I believe in salvation by grace through faith. Who are you to make any such assertion? No one!

So you don't believe Jesus died on the cross as a sacrifice for those sins you believed were an inheritance from adam? no literal wood cross or blood that came from Rome that made that inward process a historical one? Iam someone trying prick that conscience to wake you up to who you really are the offspring of the heavenly Father not a child of Roman theology that has shed blood wherever it went on this planet with zealous support even though you can't see the ties that bind you with her you most certainly are.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
So you don't believe Jesus died on the cross as a sacrifice for those sins you believed were an inheritance from adam? no literal wood cross or blood that came from Rome that made that inward process a historical one? Iam someone trying prick that conscience to wake you up to who you really are the offspring of the heavenly Father not a child of Roman theology that has shed blood wherever it went on this planet with zealous support even though you can't see the ties that bind you with her you most certainly are.

Are you a Christian and if so, what denomination?
 

Zeke

Well-known member
Are you a Christian and if so, what denomination?

Same as Christ since the foundation of this world, no outward label can box that energy Acts 17:24-26, we are called to be all things to all people exoteric religion has nothing to do with it, they only block the way Matt 23:13 to awakening to the light that comes in all flesh John 1:9, Jesus being a pattern of that motif found in every culture since time began.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Same as Christ since the foundation of this world, no outward label can box that energy Acts 17:24-26, we are called to be all things to all people exoteric religion has nothing to do with it, they only block the way Matt 23:13 to awakening to the light that comes in all flesh John 1:9, Jesus being a pattern of that motif found in every culture since time began.

Interesting but it does not show where you foundation lies.
 

Zeke

Well-known member
Interesting but it does not show where you foundation lies.

Galatians 4:1 refers to man's divine inheritance, enslaved to exoteric dogmas of fear to hide the divine side of man represented by Christ/light in all men, the diversion from that foundational aspect is the fault of historic Roman theology that burned and murdered those who followed the ancient path that knew the kingdom and temple of the spirit was in man. The conditional love of the god of a blood sacrifice shows its not our Spiritual Father who judges no man.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Allegory, analogy and pattern..........

Allegory, analogy and pattern..........

Spoiler


The abortion of primal wisdom in Christian scriptures is easily traceable through the developments of history to its perceptible causes. It came as a result of the decay of esoteric study from the third century forward, and the concomitant ignorance as to the specialized methodology employed by the ancients in sacred writing. In archaic times knowledge was put forth in strange language indeed. It was not written in plain terms to be most directly apprehended. It was embodied in a form that would at once conceal and reveal its meaning, for it was meant to be grasped by one group of people, the initiated, and missed by another, .. 3 .. the uninstructed. Therefore it was worked over into forms of a cryptic symbolism, for the interpretation of which certain keys were requisite. It was elaborated into myth, allegory, parable, fable, legend, astrological depiction and even numerological figurations. Paul declares the Abraham story in the Old Testament to be an allegory. The most intelligent parties in the Christian Church for some two and a half centuries took the entire Bible as allegory. Many schools, sects and brotherhoods, both before and after the beginning of the Christian era studied biblical writings as parables of man's spiritual life. Notable among these groups were the Essenes, about whom we take this sentence from the Encyclopedia Britannica in the article under their name: "The sacred books were preserved and read with great reverence, though not without an allegorical interpretation." A mass of further evidence could be adduced to confirm the claims in this respect. This recondite methodology of the ancient scriptural poets has caught and deceived modern scholarship. For when taken as factual occurrence and objective history, the "fabulous representation" of ancient books appears ridiculous, in spite of the fact that zealous pietism from the third century forward strove to make its conversion of myth into history as plausible and possible. Modern estimate of ancient intelligence has been based on the view that the writers of the old books believed in their myths as veridical fact! Do we not have the secret here of the moderns' mean opinion of ancient intelligence? It has been assumed that antiquity was so childish as to believe its own myths! But the childishness is all on our part, for such a baseless ascription. These seers and sages of an early age were more deeply instructed in the profound truths of our life than we yet are! But they consigned their wisdom to books--when it was entrusted to writing at all--under the forms of a disguise. And not in sixteen centuries has the western mind been astute enough to penetrate this veil and unmask the marvels of truth and knowledge lying beneath. Right here is found the reason why Christian theology has failed to solve the cabalistic enigma of the meaning of its own doctrinal material. For it approached ancient archaic literature with a preconception of its arrant inferiority, which precluded the imputation to it of merit or profundity. Nor did it rest until it had reduced the body of arcane writing to veritable nonsense, forcing upon the myths and upon their subtle devisers an alleged sense that was a frightful travesty of their true but hidden connotation. And it is easily demonstrable that certain weird manifestations cropping out in the life of medieval Christendom, and having repercussions down to this present, were engendered as the outcome of the general obfuscation of western mentality by the perversion of its heritage of spiritual wisdom to a jargon of incomprehensible theological absurdity. .. 4 ..Alvin Boyd Kuhn.

Spot on quote from Alvin Boyd Kuhn. Kuhn has many written works, at least a few on the esoteric meanings within 'scripture'. As a theosophist he naturally had a predisposition and appreciation for universal principles, science and the ancient wisdom teachings whose golden thread weaves thru the tapestry of all enlightened or inspired schools and traditions. From one universal fount originates all streams.

Kuhn also writes:

The Western world has too long and fatuously labored under the delusion that a pious and devout disposition fulfills the whole requirement of true religion. Ancient sagacity knew that piety without intelligence, or religion without philosophy, was insufficient and dangerous. It knew that general good intent was not safe from aberrancy, folly and fanaticism unless it was directed by the highest powers and resources of the mind. And the mind itself had to be fortified with specific knowledge of the nature of the cosmos and of man and the relation between the two.

Following the dictum of the sage, Hermes Trismegistus, that "the vice of a soul is ignorance, the virtue of a soul is knowledge," the scriptures of old inculcated the precept that with all man’s getting he must first get wisdom and understanding. These were related to his well-being as health to his navel and marrow to his bones, and would alone give him a crown of eternal life. They were pronounced more precious than all the things that he could desire. The council of Illuminati therefore laid down their systems of cosmology and anthropology, which have become by immemorial tradition the Bibles of humanity, universally reverenced.

In them were given the ordinances of life, the constitution of the cosmos, the laws governing both nature and mind. They still constitute the Magna Carta of all human action guided by intelligence. For they were the first Institutes embodying the Principia and Fundamenta of all moral behavior, the only true chart and compass to guide human effort in a line of harmony with an overshadowing divine plan of evolution for the Cosmos.

The corruption and final loss of the basic meaning of these scriptures has been, in the whole of time, the greatest tragedy in human history.

- Kuhn, The Lost Light

AN INTERPRETATION OF ANCIENT SCRIPTURES

---------------

All sacred writings in their core principles and values are the same, only the names, characters, personalities, forms, language-symbols, glyphs, stories.....differ in their descriptions in their own time and cultural-contexts. Truth itself by nature is universal. The descriptions may differ, but not the essence.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Interesting but it does not show where you foundation lies.

Only Absolute Reality itself is foundational, while all else being either true to it or a distortion thereof has its existence by relation or non-relation to it. The one foundation allows all to exist, true or false.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
We are the Christ of God.........his body

We are the Christ of God.........his body

90 Verses That Say: Jesus is Not God Nor the Literal Son of God

<------snip------>

A noble effort pops, but you might know way too long a quote ( perhaps accidental?). You may also know we have tons of threads on whether Jesus is God or the Son of God within the field of Unitarian vs. Trinitarian discussions, spin it as you wish. I often come from a more Unitarian perspective for debate and practicality, while my Christology is quite cosmic :)

In any case, even Paul in much of his writing does NOT equate Christ as God, while he is indeed a celestial personality, a divine Son, archangel, luminary, aeon, savior-redeemer, apostle, prophet and messenger of God. There is no reason, purpose or justification otherwise to make this Jesus into 'God Almighty' beyond metaphysical gymnastics, doctrinal assumption or creative Christology, but one can entertain or believe anything they wish.

All that is essential is recognizing Jesus as the Agent of God, and we by this understanding, apply the knowledge interpreting it rightly in spiritual life and religious study, to bear the fruit of a christened life, for Jesus is but the first fruit and prototype of all sons of God, the archetypal pattern for man.
 

God's Truth

New member
A noble effort pops, but you might know way too long a quote ( perhaps accidental?). You may also know we have tons of threads on whether Jesus is God or the Son of God within the field of Unitarian vs. Trinitarian discussions, spin it as you wish. I often come from a more Unitarian perspective for debate and practicality, while my Christology is quite cosmic :)

In any case, even Paul in much of his writing does NOT equate Christ as God, while he is indeed a celestial personality, a divine Son, archangel, luminary, aeon, savior-redeemer, apostle, prophet and messenger of God. There is no reason, purpose or justification otherwise to make this Jesus into 'God Almighty' beyond metaphysical gymnastics, doctrinal assumption or creative Christology, but one can entertain or believe anything they wish.

All that is essential is recognizing Jesus as the Agent of God, and we by this understanding, apply the knowledge interpreting it rightly in spiritual life and religious study, to bear the fruit of a christened life, for Jesus is but the first fruit and prototype of all sons of God, the archetypal pattern for man.

Paul says plainly that Jesus is God.


GOD is our Savior


Jude 1:25 to the only God our Savior be glory,

Jesus is our God and Savior:

Titus 2:13 King James Bible
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
 

Zeke

Well-known member
Spot on quote from Alvin Boyd Kuhn. Kuhn has many written works, at least a few on the esoteric meanings within 'scripture'. As a theosophist he naturally had a predisposition and appreciation for universal principles, science and the ancient wisdom teachings whose golden thread weaves thru the tapestry of all enlightened or inspired schools and traditions. From one universal fount originates all streams.

Kuhn also writes:



- Kuhn, The Lost Light

AN INTERPRETATION OF ANCIENT SCRIPTURES

---------------

All sacred writings in their core principles and values are the same, only the names, characters, personalities, forms, language-symbols, glyphs, stories.....differ in their descriptions in their own time and cultural-contexts. Truth itself by nature is universal. The descriptions may differ, but not the essence.

Kuhn is a hidden jewel among many thorns.
 
Top