Is the Bible the only sacred texts and why or why not.

[popsthebuilder]

Both teach the swoon theory, meaning Jesus didn't die on the cross, he just fainted.
You can provide "what ifs" all day, that doesn't make the Quran or the other writing inspired by God.

The Spirit of GOD has never and will never die.

The Holy Temple can be destroyed and raised back up though.

Do you know the difference?

One is the vessel which GOD fills for HIS purpose; the other is what said vessel is filled with; such being the Spirit of GOD.

The Quran expressly states that Jesus was given the Word by GOD, that He is the way, the rock the word, the judge, the Messiah, the perfect messenger of GOD and more.



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[popsthebuilder]

Both teach the swoon theory, meaning Jesus didn't die on the cross, he just fainted.
You can provide "what ifs" all day, that doesn't make the Quran or the other writing inspired by God.

You can make baseless assertions all day without ever reading the book you are making assertions about; but it will never mean anything as it is just hot air.

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[MennoSota]

Show how the Quran speaks against Christ or Jesus or Messiah. Show where it says Christ /Messiah isn't the way.

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I don't need to. You are attempting to manipulate what is discussed.
The Quran does not say that Jesus is God, but Jesus himself says he is God. The Quran tells its readers that Jesus is just a man. Therefore the Quran contradicts what Jesus says about himself. Either the Bible is correct or the Quran is correct, but they aren't both correct.
Since the history of Muhammed's visions is filled with him being demon possessed and wanting to kill himself, I choose the Bible as authoritative and thus the Quran is a demon inspired unholy book...just like the book of mormon.

 

[MennoSota]

You can make baseless assertions all day without ever reading the book you are making assertions about; but it will never mean anything as it is just hot air.

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Pops, we have discussed this on another site. I have read the Quran and some of the supposed hadith. The only thing baseless here is your claim that the Quran is a holy and sacred book.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I don't need to. You are attempting to manipulate what is discussed.
The Quran does not say that Jesus is God, but Jesus himself says he is God. The Quran tells its readers that Jesus is just a man. Therefore the Quran contradicts what Jesus says about himself. Either the Bible is correct or the Quran is correct, but they aren't both correct.
Since the history of Muhammed's visions is filled with him being demon possessed and wanting to kill himself, I choose the Bible as authoritative and thus the Quran is a demon inspired unholy book...just like the book of mormon.

Revelation 3: 12. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.



(Oops)

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[popsthebuilder]

Pops, we have discussed this on another site. I have read the Quran and some of the supposed hadith. The only thing baseless here is your claim that the Quran is a holy and sacred book.

The Hadith are not the topic nor is the Quran alone. Many can and do read. Few comprehend, or are even capable of reading without preconceived bias.

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[JudgeRightly]

The Spirit of GOD has never and will never die.

The Holy Temple can be destroyed and raised back up though.

Do you know the difference?

One is the vessel which GOD fills for HIS purpose; the other is what said vessel is filled with; such being the Spirit of GOD.

The Quran expressly states that Jesus was given the Word by GOD, that He is the way, the rock the word, the judge, the Messiah, the perfect messenger of GOD and more.

Your probleem, Pops, is that you equate "death" to "annihilation."

They are not the same, nor does death mean that one ceases to exist.

Death is simply separation.

Physical death? Separation of body and soul/spirit.

Spiritual death? Separation of man and God.

You build up a case against those who say Jesus was God by using this improper definition of death. It's a straw man. When we say Jesus (who is God) died, WE DON'T MEAN that He ceased to exist. We mean that God the Son was separated from His human body, AND from the Father and the Holy Ghost, the other two Persons of the Triune Godhead.

Another problem of yours is that you're interpreting the Bible through the lens of the Quran, instead of letting the Bible interpret itself. You also interpret the Quran through the lens of the Bible. You will never find truth that way.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Your probleem, Pops, is that you equate "death" to "annihilation."

They are not the same, nor does death mean that one ceases to exist.

Death is simply separation.

Physical death? Separation of body and soul/spirit.

Spiritual death? Separation of man and God.

You build up a case against those who say Jesus was God by using this improper definition of death. It's a straw man. When we say Jesus (who is God) died, WE DON'T MEAN that He ceased to exist. We mean that God the Son was separated from His human body, AND from the Father and the Holy Ghost, the other two Persons of the Triune Godhead.

Another problem of yours is that you're interpreting the Bible through the lens of the Quran, instead of letting the Bible interpret itself. You also interpret the Quran through the lens of the Bible. You will never find truth that way.

Assumption on both counts friend.

I neither conflate physical death with spiritual death as one must so to say Jesus died, nor do I use the quran to understand the Bible.


Simply more posturing and wishful thinking on your part; like when you wished I didn't know the difference in spirit and the SPIRIT.


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[JudgeRightly]

Assumption on both counts friend.

I neither conflate physical death with spiritual death as one must so to say Jesus died, nor do I use the quran to understand the Bible.

Simply more posturing and wishful thinking on your part; like when you wished I didn't know the difference in spirit and the SPIRIT.

I didn't say you conflate physical and spiritual death with each other. I said you conflate "death" with "annihilation," ie, ceasing to exist.

Please pay attention.

Death is separation, not annihilation.

There are two kinds of death, NEITHER of which are annihilation.

Physical death (again, not "ceasing to exist") is separation of body and soul/spirit.

Spiritual death (again, not "ceasing to exist") is separation of man and God.

Jesus suffered BOTH physical and spiritual death. You seem to think that that would mean that he ceased to exist, and then based on that, you make the straw man against our position that God can't "die", as if if He died, He would cease to exist, AND WE BOTH AGREE THAT IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR GOD TO CEASE TO EXIST. But as I said, that's a straw man against my position, because it's not our argument.

As for your using the Quran, yes, you do. The reason you don't recognize it is that you've grown used to accepting the Quran as truth.

Jesus is the Truth, the Quran denies things that Jesus said and did in the Bible, and therefore the Quran is not truth, and can be rejected.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I didn't say you conflate physical and spiritual death with each other. I said you conflate "death" with "annihilation," ie, ceasing to exist.

Please pay attention.

Death is separation, not annihilation.

There are two kinds of death, NEITHER of which are annihilation.

Physical death (again, not "ceasing to exist") is separation of body and soul/spirit.

Spiritual death (again, not "ceasing to exist") is separation of man and God.

Jesus suffered BOTH physical and spiritual death. You seem to think that that would mean that he ceased to exist, and then based on that, you make the straw man against our position that God can't "die", as if if He died, He would cease to exist, AND WE BOTH AGREE THAT IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR GOD TO CEASE TO EXIST. But as I said, that's a straw man against my position, because it's not our argument.

As for your using the Quran, yes, you do. The reason you don't recognize it is that you've grown used to accepting the Quran as truth.

Jesus is the Truth, the Quran denies things that Jesus said and did in the Bible, and therefore the Quran is not truth, and can be rejected.

I disagree.

Spiritual death is eternal destruction/ annihilation.

Care for scriptural references?

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[popsthebuilder]

I didn't say you conflate physical and spiritual death with each other. I said you conflate "death" with "annihilation," ie, ceasing to exist.

Please pay attention.

Death is separation, not annihilation.

There are two kinds of death, NEITHER of which are annihilation.

Physical death (again, not "ceasing to exist") is separation of body and soul/spirit.

Spiritual death (again, not "ceasing to exist") is separation of man and God.

Jesus suffered BOTH physical and spiritual death. You seem to think that that would mean that he ceased to exist, and then based on that, you make the straw man against our position that God can't "die", as if if He died, He would cease to exist, AND WE BOTH AGREE THAT IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR GOD TO CEASE TO EXIST. But as I said, that's a straw man against my position, because it's not our argument.

As for your using the Quran, yes, you do. The reason you don't recognize it is that you've grown used to accepting the Quran as truth.

Jesus is the Truth, the Quran denies things that Jesus said and did in the Bible, and therefore the Quran is not truth, and can be rejected.

What does the Quran deny that Jesus taught and did?

Be specific.

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[popsthebuilder]

Pops, we have discussed this on another site. I have read the Quran and some of the supposed hadith. The only thing baseless here is your claim that the Quran is a holy and sacred book.

Email me please and let me know it is you. I would like to speak privately to you and cannot send or receive pm.

My email is popsthebuilder@gmail.com



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[MennoSota]

Email me please and let me know it is you. I would like to speak privately to you and cannot send or receive pm.

My email is popsthebuilder@gmail.com



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It is me. I won't be emailing you. Public forum is the best place to speak with you.

 

[popsthebuilder]

It is me. I won't be emailing you. Public forum is the best place to speak with you.

Suit yourself. I will not be divulging intended info here as per rules of forum.

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[popsthebuilder]

Both teach the swoon theory, meaning Jesus didn't die on the cross, he just fainted.
You can provide "what ifs" all day, that doesn't make the Quran or the other writing inspired by God.

Quran indeed teaches resurrection and the gathering of all at judgement. All will be raised up.

The Quran does not teach that the man Jesus did not die physically upon the crucifix.

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[MennoSota]

Suit yourself. I will not be divulging intended info here as per rules of forum.

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That's fine, pops. We discuss the topic. In this case, I have stated that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except via Jesus.
That's an exclusive path. No Muslim can follow that path without declaring that Jesus is God, the Redeemer whose atoning sacrifice pardons those whom God wills to pardon.
Can you say that Jesus is God, pops? Say those exact words, pops. "Jesus is God." Go ahead. I know you well enough that you will side-step around it and not declare to this community that Jesus is God. But...I give you the opportunity to declare that Jesus is God.
Will you...can you state that Jesus is God?

 

[Idolater]

Quran indeed teaches resurrection and the gathering of all at judgement. All will be raised up.

The Quran does not teach that the man Jesus did not die physically upon the crucifix.

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So Islam believes in Christ's Resurrection?

If they do (I don't think they do), then they are just another type of Protestant Christian, like the Mormons and Bahai.

 

[MennoSota]

Quran indeed teaches resurrection and the gathering of all at judgement. All will be raised up.

The Quran does not teach that the man Jesus did not die physically upon the crucifix.

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Hmmm...then I guess you disagree with every Imam within the Sunni and Shiite sect of Islam.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Quran indeed teaches resurrection and the gathering of all at judgement. All will be raised up.

The Quran does not teach that the man Jesus did not die physically upon the crucifix.

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Uh, yes it does, Pops, as we've discussed before.

4:157 And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
4:158 Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

I disagree.

Spiritual death is eternal destruction/ annihilation.

Care for scriptural references?

How about the entire Bible that says existence after death?

What does the Quran deny that Jesus taught and did?

Be specific.

That Jesus was crucified on the Cross and was buried, spent three days in the grave, and rose again on the third day.

 

[popsthebuilder]

That's fine, pops. We discuss the topic. In this case, I have stated that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except via Jesus.
That's an exclusive path. No Muslim can follow that path without declaring that Jesus is God, the Redeemer whose atoning sacrifice pardons those whom God wills to pardon.
Can you say that Jesus is God, pops? Say those exact words, pops. "Jesus is God." Go ahead. I know you well enough that you will side-step around it and not declare to this community that Jesus is God. But...I give you the opportunity to declare that Jesus is God.
Will you...can you state that Jesus is God?

CHRIST is GOD.

Jesus was the manifestation of GOD; the image of GOD. He was GOD'S Christ. His Spirit which is GOD lives within us, as we make the temporal body and blocks of the Holy Temple of GOD.

you should know well by now that I do not and will not conflate the temporal with the eternal.

Did Jesus ever teach us to conflate the material with the spiritual?



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