Is scripture the infallible Word Of God?

Caino

BANNED
Banned
The Book I read is the Living Word.

The "Big Book" of AA is the Living Word written imperfectly by imperfect men. It communicates the "truth" to the hearts of the spiritually sick. People do indeed find God through that book......but it was written by men and therefore relative.


It would be so wonderful to have the original texts of the Old Testiment books before the priest class redacted the entire history of Israelites from the perspective of the devistating Babylonian captivity.

Jesus didn't come here to reform evolved Judaism, rather he came to reveal the truth of the nature of the Living God. Rather than point out where the Jews thinking was in error, he lived a God revealing life, leaving the "old ideas" of Judaism to die on the vine.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Is scripture the infallible Word Of God?

Let's see...

Robert Pate said:
No, the bible is not a perfect work. This does not take away from it but rather enhances it. None of the men except for Christ were perfect. What makes you think that imperfect men can write a perfect book.

The bible does what it was intended to do, it reveals Christ and his gospel.

Robert Pate said:
The bible is not a perfect book. It was written by men.

The sole purpose of the bible is to be a witness to the work and person of Jesus Christ. If you use it for any other purpose than that you have misused it.

It was never intended to be a book to live by.

The above followed by numerous threads full of bizarre notions gives ample evidence to what becomes of a person who denies the verbal, plenary, inspiration of Scripture.

AMR
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
The word of Elohim is described as living and active. That can only be the case if it is empowered with life and fulfills its purpose in activity.

Hebrews 4:12 KJV

Isaiah 55:11 KJV

To fully comprehend the inspired word it is necessary to have experienced its power. All men are under its power, but not all are saved by its power. To some it is the killing letter.

You really, REALLY, need to come to an understanding of the term "elohim". You butcher it on a weekly basis.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lon

Lon

Well-known member
If the scriptures were inspired, and not the men, the fact that "holy men of God were moved" is moot and we should remove this information from our Bibles as it is apparently unnecessary.

Dictation is the only possibility if the men were not inspired and they need not have been "holy" or "moved" at all, only accurate.


Not dictation, but verbal plenary inspiration.

What is Verbal Plenary Inspiration?

As the article states, it is not dictation, but rather God breathed. The scripture says God moved them along, that's part of it, but it also says the words were "God-breathed." Thus, the work of God was to verbally give infallible, authoritative, divinely given, words.

"How?" wasn't by dictation, but the scriptures themselves make it a certainty and Verbal Plenary Inspiration is the prolific stance Conservative Fundamental Evangelicals adhere to.
 

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
No one cares to look up Ivan panin's works or theomatics to discover scientific proofs that the bible is God breathed. I bothered to learn it and found them true with my calculator. With this proof, the case is closed. You can cry, moan bicker and protest all you while the proofs will always be there.
 

Lon

Well-known member
You mean in my signature? Well, I hasten to add that I didn't invent this acronym. And if you think it is bottom feed, then why don't you try refuting it in the normal manner? Calling it bottom feed doesn't help your case.
I am happy to see Calvinism rates so highly in your mind you need to have it in your sig. I definitely don't have another's systematic theology in mine.

Let me answer that for you:
Well, okay, answer for him, but do you mind interruption so I can correct your mistakes along the way for him and others reading along? Thanks.

You know it because you were brought up to believe that the Bible comprised 66 books. If your parents were Christians, you believed the Bible was from God because they told you and you believed them.
Well, no, I started Catholic, so there were a few more books involved.

If you became a believer as an adult, you believed it because other Christians told you.
And proved it fairly soundly, but that is a bible course I took. These books have a lot of internal authentication. Christ read the scriptures and indeed, had them all memorized. He called them God's Word and used them as infallible.

You believe it because you went to the shops and when you asked for a Bible, that was what you got. Or because someone gave you one for a present and when you opened it, that was what was in it. If the Apocrypha were in it, you wouldn't have known any different. If Thomas A Kempis' The Imitation of Christ was in it, you wouldn't have known any different. If C.S. Lewis' Screwtape Letters was in it, or the Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs, you wouldn't have known any different.
Or the Koran. Answer this: Why 'not' the Koran DR? Why 'not' the Screwtape letters. Your simplistic objection seems simplistic. The class actually did very well at explaining our 66 books. First of all, was Jesus and the Apostles' use of them as well as their preservation. They were always 39 books. The New Testament ones are self-authenticating as well, from both internal evidence, as well as evidence from one to the other. Peter, for instance, tells us "All" of Paul's letters are scripture.

You accept it for one reason only: because you tacitly accept the authority of the church.
:nono: Rather the logical premise that they are 1) self-authenticating as exampled as well as 2) Spiritually authenticating.

It was the church who created the Bible. Make no mistake about this. This is in practice what you believe.
:nono: It is true that they observed what was already authenticating, thus they merely preserved what God inspired.

You did not receive a personal revelation from God that the Bible is made up of 66 books.
Personal, no, self-authenticating? Yes.
And anyone who believes that the Bible (the 66 books) is infallible automatically believes that the church who put it together is also infallible.
Again, preserving verses authoring. They did not author your 66 books.
Because you cannot have one without the other. This is both a logical and a historical necessity.
:nono: Not even in the slightest, any kind of necessity. Did you get to that conclusion by logic? Yes, but when you make a mistake, the mistake isn't logic but you did use logic to make the mistake. Follow? If not, again, this is for posterity to the thread, not to you in particular. You are just wrong, but I don't see a lot of reason to belabor disagreement, but simply to strengthen another's resolve and faith in scriptures. In some ways, you are as based on tradition as a Catholic, which makes some sense here.

Summary: The 66 books are self-authenticating and cross-books authenticating. They are also Spiritually authenticating, in that the same Spirit who breathed them, also indwells the believer and brings the two together.

Above is a link which sums up a book by J.I. Packer and others which most scholars are familiar with and worth a bit of reading for one to familiarize himself/herself with the 66 book canon and why we have it. It is well beyond DR's cursory glance here. -Lon
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
Me being that rarest of creatures ... that being someone who came to his belief about what the Bible says from reading it rather than what I was told about it, I find the various permutations of what others propose it is supposed say endlessly fascinating.

One thing I have noted is that I can generally spot some one who has read the thing for themselves ... it's like we read the same book.

Pun intended.
 

Wick Stick

Well-known member
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... and the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us... this doesn't sound like a book to me.

The Word of God is Jesus, but before incarnation and after ascension. The second part of the trinity (though I bristle at most trinitarian language as it is all imperfect). Scripture contains the collected witness of and about the Word of God.

Is Scripture inspired? Yes. Is Scripture inspiring? Yes. Do either of those things make it infallible? No.

That's where I am, anyway.

Jarrod
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
Not dictation, but verbal plenary inspiration.

What is Verbal Plenary Inspiration?

As the article states, it is not dictation, but rather God breathed. The scripture says God moved them along, that's part of it, but it also says the words were "God-breathed." Thus, the work of God was to verbally give infallible, authoritative, divinely given, words.

"How?" wasn't by dictation, but the scriptures themselves make it a certainty and Verbal Plenary Inspiration is the prolific stance Conservative Fundamental Evangelicals adhere to.

Yes.
And that is exactly my point. Words cannot be breathed into or upon yet that is what most evangelicals mistakenly believe. The doctrine of inspiration is actually outspiration as regarding the words but inspiration with regard to the chosen holy men who were moved by the Spirit.

Is the word "theopneustos", which we believe was in the originals, inspired? Or is it only inspired when surrounded by other words? Can part of a word be inspired? What is the smallest element that can be considered inspired? The "jot" and "tittle"? How many verses could we take out of our Bibles and still call it the inspired Word of God? What about when a word is translated - can it still be said to be inspired?

I would not have a problem if it was called Verbal Plenary Expiration. Why is it such a problem to correct a word that is plainly wrong? God breathed into holy men, not into words. And I hasten to add that the AV never refers to the scriptures as inspired.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Luke 24:25-27 New King James Version (NKJV)

25 Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?”
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

Luke 24:44 New King James Version (NKJV)

44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”

John 14:26 New King James Version (NKJV)

26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
 

Cruciform

New member
Luke 24:25-27 New King James Version (NKJV)

25 Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?”
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

Luke 24:44 New King James Version (NKJV)

44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”

John 14:26 New King James Version (NKJV)

26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
And...?
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Of course. There's absolutely no dispute between Catholics and Protestants on this point.

Then you agree that scripture is the infallible word of God. :thumb: And if it is, why don't you believe that scripture is the final authority. You can not have your cake and eat it too.
 
Top