Is Prophecy Being Fulfilled in the Dispensation of Grace?

[Bladerunner]

Keep reading:

This came upon my bell, thought I would give a different thought.

Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 21:32-33 - New King James Version

Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

www.biblegateway.com

Guess what? Hardly any of the things Jesus spoke about happened. Heaven and earth did not pass away.

Jerusalem still stands, last I checked.

Many interpret that Jesus is speaking of the generation of the people He is talking to...As a generation is 20 years, this is not very likely since many are present young to old more than one generation. What He is speaking of is a future generation that see the majority of Mat 24 happen. This generation, I and many believe started on May 14, 1948. The day Israel proclaimed themselves the State of Israel. The first Jewish state in some 2,000 years. twenty years from 1948 is 1968 representing the generation that will see the majority of things Mat 24 has to offer. As a person has 80 years to live according to the Bible with some living far longer but the majority within the 80 years. Accordingly, this generation will die out in 2028 to 2048. So far this generation as seen all the prophecies that are fulfilled upto the present day prophecies about the middle east. There is not much time left.

 

[JudgeRightly]

What He is speaking of is a future generation

Saying it doesn't make it so!

that see all of Mat 24 happen. This generation, I and many believe started on May 14, 1948. The day Israel proclaimed themselves the State of Israel. The first Jewish state in some 2,000 years. twenty years from 1948 is 1968 represent the generation that will see all things that Mat 24 has to offer. As a person has 80 years to live according to the Bible with some living far longer but the majority within the 80 years. Accordingly, this generation will die out in 2028 to 2048. So far this generation as seen all the prophecies that are fulfilled upto the present day prophecies about the middle east. There is not much time left.

What a load of nonsense!

It doesn't even deserve a detailed response!

Jesus wasn't lying when He said THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS AWAY!

He meant EXACTLY what He said!

But when circumstances change, God can no longer do that which He said He would do!

He literally tells us this in Jeremiah!

The current nation called "Israel" has very little, if anything, to do with ANY AND ALL of the prophecies in the Bible, because THE NATION OF ISRAEL HAS BEEN CUT OFF!

Go read Romans 9-11. It's all about Israel's current status!

 

[Bladerunner]

So again. What hidden agenda?

More likely Matt. 10:23 is talking about the temple being destroyed in 70 AD. He returned in judgment then, didn’t He?

the mystery was Jesus....hidden from the beginning yet told in the first word of Gen 1:1.."in the Beginning". If one looks carefully, one can see Jesus on every page of the OT.

 

[glorydaz]

Keep reading:

Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 21:32-33 - New King James Version

Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

www.biblegateway.com

Guess what? Hardly any of the things Jesus spoke about happened. Heaven and earth did not pass away.

Jerusalem still stands, last I checked.

You know that Jesus often spoke of more than one time or place during the same speech? Take for instance tear this down and in three days build it up again. I believe we’re seeing that here, just as it is in Matthew 24.

 

[glorydaz]

Saying it doesn't make it so!



What a load of nonsense!

It doesn't even deserve a detailed response!

Jesus wasn't lying when He said THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS AWAY!

He meant EXACTLY what He said!

But when circumstances change, God can no longer do that which He said He would do!

He literally tells us this in Jeremiah!

The current nation called "Israel" has very little, if anything, to do with ANY AND ALL of the prophecies in the Bible, because THE NATION OF ISRAEL HAS BEEN CUT OFF!

Go read Romans 9-11. It's all about Israel's current status!

Jesus wasn’t lying. He was speaking of the generation that sees the fig tree blooming will not pass away.

I am amazed that you refuse to believe the Israel today is the same nation spoken of in the Bible. If that were so, we would have read about some false Israel in the Bible. The Israel today is exactly like the Israel we read about in the Bible. Until you admit that, you’ll be stuck accusing others of speaking nonsense.

 

[glorydaz]

the mystery was Jesus....hidden from the beginning yet told in the first word of Gen 1:1.."in the Beginning". If one looks carefully, one can see Jesus on every page of the OT.

Indeed, and He was Prophet, Priest, and King. Just like when Nebuchadnezzar was His servant with the destruction of the first Temple, Rome was His servant in 70 AD. It had to happen because the Jews had rejected their Messiah. And it doesn’t require God to change His plans.

 

[glorydaz]

Go read Romans 9-11. It's all about Israel's current status!

Paul tells us blindness in part has happened to Israel, NOT that Israel has ceased to exist. The Bible tells us they were scattered and gathered, and their land would bloom. All this before they stand on their feet and are filled with the spirit. We see the dry bones, but they are there today, and we’re watching them being surrounded on every side. All this is in the Book, and you can ignore it until the cows come home, but you’d still be wrong.

 

[Right Divider]

Paul tells us blindness in part has happened to Israel, NOT that Israel has ceased to exist.

If Israel never ceased to exist, what happened in 1948?

When God restores the kingdom to Israel, that will be permanent.

 

[Bladerunner]

Indeed, and He was Prophet, Priest, and King. Just like when Nebuchadnezzar was His servant with the destruction of the first Temple, Rome was His servant in 70 AD. It had to happen because the Jews had rejected their Messiah. And it doesn’t require God to change His plans.

as another said on this forum, God is in control, always.

 

[Bladerunner]

Saying it doesn't make it so!

we can go down the list and compare them from 70 AD to today...

What a load of nonsense!

I said it was my belief, It is not doctrine but it is there in black and white.

It doesn't even deserve a detailed response!

Jesus wasn't lying when He said THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS AWAY!

My statements did not make Him a Liar!

He meant EXACTLY what He said!

Yes, and He said what He meant.

But when circumstances change, God can no longer do that which He said He would do!

He literally tells us this in Jeremiah!

From the way I read the Bible, God has no problem continuing or completing any of His plan(s)-both of them

The current nation called "Israel" has very little, if anything, to do with ANY AND ALL of the prophecies in the Bible, because THE NATION OF ISRAEL HAS BEEN CUT OFF!

from what part of Jeremiah did you get that. there are alot of "cut off" in that book?

Go read Romans 9-11. It's all about Israel's current status!

First let me say that if you look at Romans, chapters 9 through 11, you will see Israel's past, present and future in that order. the current status of Israel is they have been blinded by GOD. In addition, by destroying their temple, they have no way to relieve themselves of their sins, thus the Oral Tanach. This will not change until the "fullness of the gentiles" which will be after the Battle of Amageddon. The millennium to follow will see Israel ruling the world with Jesus sitting on the Throne of David.

thanks for the conversation.

 

[JudgeRightly]

we can go down the list and compare them from 70 AD to today...

I said it was my belief, It is not doctrine but it is there in black and white.

Your belief is nonsense!

My statements did not make Him a Liar!

Did Jesus mean "this generation," speaking of the generation that was present when He said "this generation," when He said "this generation shall not pass away until..."?

Because that's not "a future generation," which is what you are trying to say He meant. Which does, in fact, make Him a liar.

Or do you really think that Jesus would keep John the Beloved alive for thousands of years?

Yes, and He said what He meant.

From the way I read the Bible, God has no problem continuing or completing any of His plan(s)-both of them

Then why would God say something like this?:

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! - Matthew 23:37

The Bible is RIFE with accounts of Israel refusing to obey God, and as a result, God being unable to do that which He said He would do!

from what part of Jeremiah did you get that. there are alot of "cut off" in that book?

Jeremiah 18.

It's the story of the potter and the clay!

First let me say that if you look at Romans, chapters 9 through 11, you will see Israel's past, present and future in that order. The current status of Israel is they have been blinded by GOD.

Not only blinded, but they have FALLEN!

In addition, by destroying their temple, they have no way to relieve themselves of their sins, thus the Oral Tanach.

This is called begging the question.

Again, the temple was meant to be destroyed during the Time of Jacob's trouble. Which was supposed to have have been started AT PENTECOST!

Meaning 7 years, probably less, until Christ's return!

Not 35 years! And CERTAINLY NOT THOUSANDS OF YEARS!

So something happened prior to Christ's return that prevented Him from returning.

For that, look at Acts 7-9.

Jesus came looking for fruit from Israel for three years, and then gave the Holy Spirit a year to dig around and fertilize, and they STILL bore no fruit.

So, God cut them off. They do not have any current special status as "God's chosen people." They are as the Gentiles.

This will not change until the "fullness of the gentiles" which will be after the Battle of Amageddon. The millennium to follow will see Israel ruling the world with Jesus sitting on the Throne of David.

None of which involves the Body of Christ!

 

[glorydaz]

as another said on this forum, God is in control, always.

And He knows the end from the beginning.

 

[glorydaz]

Your belief is nonsense!



Did Jesus mean "this generation," speaking of the generation that was present when He said "this generation," when He said "this generation shall not pass away until..."?

Because that's not "a future generation," which is what you are trying to say He meant. Which does, in fact, make Him a liar.

Actually, He said the generation that sees the fig tree (the nation of Israel) grow branches and begin to bloom (showing life - that nation born in a day according to the prophets). That generation that SEES those things. Not the generation that was alive at that time.

Or do you really think that Jesus would keep John the Beloved alive for thousands of years?



Then why would God say something like this?:

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! - Matthew 23:37

The Bible is RIFE with accounts of Israel refusing to obey God, and as a result, God being unable to do that which He said He would do!



Jeremiah 18.

It's the story of the potter and the clay!



Not only blinded, but they have FALLEN!

God says the sun, moon, and stars will fail before Israel ceases to be a nation. They have always been a nation in God’s eyes. They were scattered, fallen down, but never have they been out of God’s sight or out of the race.

This is called begging the question.

Again, the temple was meant to be destroyed during the Time of Jacob's trouble. Which was supposed to have have been started AT PENTECOST!

Meaning 7 years, probably less, until Christ's return!

Not 35 years! And CERTAINLY NOT THOUSANDS OF YEARS!

So something happened prior to Christ's return that prevented Him from returning.

For that, look at Acts 7-9.

Jesus came looking for fruit from Israel for three years, and then gave the Holy Spirit a year to dig around and fertilize, and they STILL bore no fruit.

So, God cut them off. They do not have any current special status as "God's chosen people." They are as the Gentiles.



None of which involves the Body of Christ!

Ah, this is where Mid-Acts slips on their blinders, no offense intended.

 

[glorydaz]

If Israel never ceased to exist, what happened in 1948?

When God restores the kingdom to Israel, that will be permanent.

The nation never failed to exist in God’s eyes, only in the eyes of man. Thus they were born as a nation in man’s eyes.

Isaiah 66 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Yes the kingdom of Israel will be permanent, but the nation of Israel is at this moment being squeezed. We see it, and Ezekiel 34-36 should be a study on here.

 

[JudgeRightly]

And He knows the end from the beginning.

No.

He DECLARES the end from the beginning.

As in, He declares the end, from the beginning.

Actually, He said the generation that sees the fig tree (the nation of Israel) grow branches and begin to bloom (showing life - that nation born in a day according to the prophets). That generation that SEES those things.

“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see all these things, know that [e]it is near—at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. - Matthew 24:32-34

It says nothing about "that generation."

He is speaking privately to His disciples. (cf verse 3)

"So you also, when YOU (His disciples) see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, (meaning, PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT I'M ABOUT TO TELL YOU) this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."

He says "THIS generation."
He says "when YOU see all these things."

There just isn't any reason to think He's talking about some future generation.

Not the generation that was alive at that time.

Again, even if that was true (and it isn't) you still have to deal with the fact that Jesus said "If I will that he (John the Beloved) remains, what is it to you?"

You still have to deal with "you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes."

You still have to deal with the fact that thousands of people sold all their possessions and shared all things in common, expecting Christ to return within their lifetimes!

"Not the generation that was alive at that time" simply does not make any sense!

God says the sun, moon, and stars will fail before Israel ceases to be a nation. They have always been a nation in God’s eyes. They were scattered, fallen down, but never have they been out of God’s sight or out of the race.

Go read Romans 9-11.

Ah, this is where Mid-Acts slips on their blinders, no offense intended.

I'm literally quoting scriptures, and interpreting scripture in light of scripture, and you're accusing me of "slipping on blinders"?

Get a grip, GD!

 

[Clete]

Saying it does not make it so. You should know that.

I've never made any claim to the contrary. If there is something you want clarification on ask me. I guarantee you that I not only am able to answer it but and willing to do so.

We aren’t Israel, but we aren’t blind to what has been going on with Israel. If you can’t see prophecy is being fulfilled as we speak then I can’t convince you otherwise.

Of course you can! All you have to do is answer the question that has repeatedly asked and which you have mostly refused to answer.

WHICH SPECIFIC PROPHESIES ARE BEING FULFILLED?

Israel is the fig tree, and the first thing that had to happen was the Jews returning to their land. That is not just some pretend Israel. They are dry bones, not yet filled with the Spirit. But, You can think what you want.

I didn't say it was pretend and I acknowledged that the creation of the nation wasn't trivial (post #93) but that doesn't make it a fulfillment of any prophecy.

 

[Right Divider]

The nation never failed to exist in God’s eyes, only in the eyes of man. Thus they were born as a nation in man’s eyes.

So the prophecy was that they would "be born as a nation in man’s eyes"?

Isaiah 66 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

I'm still waiting for some proof of fulfillment, besides just your claim.

Yes the kingdom of Israel will be permanent, but the nation of Israel is at this moment being squeezed. We see it, and Ezekiel 34-36 should be a study on here.

Is there also a "squeezing" prophecy?

 

[glorydaz]

No.

He DECLARES the end from the beginning.

As in, He declares the end, from the beginning.

He would never declare something He didn’t know. God declares what He knows. Six one half dozen another.

“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see all these things, know that [e]it is near—at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. - Matthew 24:32-34

It says nothing about "that generation."

He is speaking privately to His disciples. (cf verse 3)

"So you also, when YOU (His disciples) see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, (meaning, PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT I'M ABOUT TO TELL YOU) this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."

He says "THIS generation."
He says "when YOU see all these things."

There just isn't any reason to think He's talking about some future generation.

Jesus was prophesying about the future and His use of the parable is for that future generation that would see these things. At times, Jesus spoke of the near fulfillment that would happen in 70 AD. You have to remember that the fig tree was barren, and the Jews were once again going to be dispersed. Of course they would be scattered for nearly 2000 years, and countless prophets spoke of that. Therefore, when He speaks of the generation that sees those signs regarding Israel growing branches and budding out can only be seen by that future generation.

Again, even if that was true (and it isn't) you still have to deal with the fact that Jesus said "If I will that he (John the Beloved) remains, what is it to you?"

You still have to deal with "you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes."

You still have to deal with the fact that thousands of people sold all their possessions and shared all things in common, expecting Christ to return within their lifetimes!

"Not the generation that was alive at that time" simply does not make any sense!



Go read Romans 9-11

yep, I’m no stranger

I'm literally quoting scriptures, and interpreting scripture in light of scripture, and you're accusing me of "slipping on blinders"?

Get a grip, GD!

I have a pretty good grip already. Saying mid acts folks wear some blinders shouldn’t be taken personally. It’s merely something I’ve realized over time, that the focus is too narrow.

 

[glorydaz]

I've never made any claim to the contrary. If there is something you want clarification on ask me. I guarantee you that I not only am able to answer it but and willing to do so.


Of course you can! All you have to do is answer the question that has repeatedly asked and which you have mostly refused to answer.

WHICH SPECIFIC PROPHESIES ARE BEING FULFILLED?


I didn't say it was pretend and I acknowledged that the creation of the nation wasn't trivial (post #93) but that doesn't make it a fulfillment of any prophecy.

Isaiah 66:8
All throughout Ezekiel. Ez. 37:21-22 especially this one gathered into one nation. The problem with Ezekiel is that he says a lot of first this and then that. He is a wonderful study and well worth looking into.

Personally, I like this…He even says He does it for His own name’s sake.

Ezek. 37: 7 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame. 8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come. 9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown: 10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:

 

[glorydaz]

So the prophecy was that they would "be born as a nation in man’s eyes"?

I was making it as simple as I could. Answer me this…
God said they would never cease being a nation. He said the sun the moon and the starts would cease first. So, when the prophets speak of a nation being born in a day, what do you think? Clearly that is speaking of Israel being recognized among the nations.

I'm still waiting for some proof of fulfillment, besides just your claim.

It isn’t my claim. They exist and everyone seems to understand they are Jews except you guys. Why is that, do you think? I’m pretty sure I know. it’s quite maddening.

Is there also a "squeezing" prophecy?