glorydaz
Well-known member
Get over yourself. Lord have mercy. Is this some contest?????
Is Prophecy Being Fulfilled in the Dispensation of Grace?
- Thread starter Right Divider
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Quite so and I wouldn't ask you to. I did some digging and found a pdf of the book. I've posted just reasons 4-6 to give you a flavor of how the book goes....
REASON #4 AND #5
God uses the Seven Feasts of Israel to tie together the 69th and 70th week of Daniel. The 69th and 70th weeks of
Daniel are 1,958 years apart (covering the Church Age).
The 69th week of Daniel ended 6 April 30 A.D. at the closing of Jesus' tomb. The 70th week of Daniel start with
the Day of Atonement 1988 when Antichrist signs the Seven-Year Peace Pact with Israel on 21 Sept. 1988, and
the 70th week of Daniel ends 7 Jewish years later on the Day of Atonement 1995, at the battle of Armageddon, 4
Oct. 1995, thus lasting seven Jewish years. (Note: The next paragraph is extremely important.)
Lunar dates of the last three Feasts of Israel for the years 1988 through 1995 provide the beginning and ending
dates for the count of days given by God in Ezekiel, Daniel, and Revelation and verify beyond any reasonable
doubt that from the Day of Atonement 1988 through the Day of Atonement 1995 is the 70th week of Daniel.
(This single fact is the unchallengeable proof that this book is correct and true.)
Since the faithful Christian is never appointed to wrath, then the Rapture of the Church must be before the Day
of Atonement 1988, 21 Sept. 1988. The faithful Christian might have to endure Satan's wrath as Job did, or
endure the wrath of man every day, but the faithful Christians never have to endure the wrath of Lamb, Jesus
(see Rev. 6:16-17)
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Because the 70th week of Daniel starts 21 Sept. 1988 (the Day of Atonement 1988), the Rapture of the Church
must preced the Peace Pact signing between Antichrist and Israel. Thus we look at Rosh-Hash-Ana 1988 which
is ten days earlier than Peace Pact signing date, 21 Sept.1988.
REASON #6
One of the Seven Feast of Israel given in Lev. 23, it looks as if God gave the first three Feast of Israel to Jesus,
the next two Feasts of Israel to the Church, and the last two Feasts of Israel to the Jew.
The first feasts-Passover, Jesus died; Unleavened Bread, Jesus lay buried; and on Firstfruits, Jesus arose from
the dead in the first resurrection of permanence.
Then the Church was given the next two Feasts of Israel – the Christian was born on Pentecost or Shavout, the
fourth Feast of Israel, when the Holy Spirit arrived to indwell the living believer; Acts 2:2-4 and the Church
departs earth at the Rapture on the Fifth Feast of Israel, the Feast of Trumpets (called Rosh-Hash-Ana) in 1988,
Rev. 4:1 thus the Church arrives on earth on the fourth Feast of Israel when he who restraineth is taken out of the
way (II Thess. 2:7).
Then the last two Feast of Israel were given to Israel and the Jew – in 1988 on the Day of Atonement (the sixth
Feast of Israel, called Yom Kippur), Antichrist signs the Seven-Year Peace Pact with Israel starting the 70th week
of Daniel for seven Jewish years, at which time God again deals with Israel as the promised people of God, and,
on the Feast of Tabernacles, 9 Oct. 1995, (five days after Armageddon), Israel recognizes Jesus as their Messiah
whom they crucified 2,000 years ago (see Zech. 12:10-14).
Thus the Church Age began on the Fourth Feast of Israel (Pentecost), 28 May 30 AD and ends on the fifth
Feast of Israel (Trumphets or Rosh-Hash-Ana), Sept. 1988.
That is all quoted verbatim with spelling errors left intact. I picked those three because they're brief enough that people are likely to actually read them on this forum.As a sort of precursor to the 88 Reasons book, Mr. Whisenant wrote another book called "On Borrowed Time" which he asks his readers to read first before reading the 88 Reasons. In "On Borrowed Time", he wrote the following....
THE BIBLE'S MYSTERY UNRAVELLED
The major prophecies of all the Old and New Testaments prophets have now been put together. Each prophecy
verifies all other prophecies. All the verse in the book of Revelation now have the dates of occurrence assigned
by Scripture. We now know which seven years will be the Tribulation. Every major event of the Tribulation is
known, as well as the dates on which these events will occur. We know the exact day that the Millennium begins
and ends, as well as the dates of the events in between. These events were never restricted from our knowledge,
but only the day and hour of our Lord's return for the Church, and that event was limited only to the day and
hour, and not the week, month or year.
“Surely the sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants the prophets.” (Amos 3:7)
The complete story was told to the prophets, but it took 14 years for a man to put it together. God used the dates
of the last three Feasts of Israel in the years 1988 through 1995 to begin and end
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the counts of days given in the Old and New Testament books of Ezekiel, Daniel and Revelation. The lunar dates
of the last three Feasts of Israel, will only fit 1988 through 1995. At no other time in history or the future will
these Bible counts fit. This is unfakeable and undeniable proof that the 70th week of Daniel, called the Seven-
Year Tribulation, starts in 1988. (Emphasis in the original!)
Now, why am I posting all of this? Well, because I haven't ever encountered anyone who firmly believed that we were definitely in the end times who did not think in almost identical terms as what Mr. Whisenant presents in his writings. Not verbatim, certainly, but of a kind, where the details (dates and such) are debated or dismissed outright but the overall kind of thinking is accepted and endorsed and used. I hear similar kinds of things to this day. Dr. David Jeremiah and Jonathan Cahn are two modern evangelists that you hear similar things from, and what I'm asking you to do is to examine the thought process behind why you're so convinced that prophecy is being fulfilled in modern times and if those thoughts are even a little bit in resonance with what I've posted above, well, let's just say, please don't sell your house or start giving away your retirement money just yet, as so many did in 1988 (not that I think you're about to do that!).
Here’s a very brief and rather incomplete list of major historical periods when people believed the end times were imminent:
- Early Christianity (1st Century): Many early Christians believed Jesus would return within their lifetimes, based on interpretations of His teachings (e.g., Matthew 24:34). The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD heightened these expectations.
- Medieval Period (1000 AD): The approach of the year 1000 saw widespread apocalyptic fears in Europe, fueled by biblical numerology and a sense that the millennium marked a turning point in God's plan.
- The Black Death (1347–1351): The bubonic plague, which killed millions, led many to interpret the pandemic as a sign of divine judgment and the end of the world.
- The Reformation (16th Century): Apocalyptic rhetoric was common among Protestant Reformers like Martin Luther, who identified the Papacy with the Antichrist and saw the upheaval of the church as a prelude to Christ’s return.
- The Great Disappointment (1844): Followers of William Miller (Millerites) believed Christ would return on October 22, 1844. When this failed, it became known as the Great Disappointment, though it led to the development of Adventist movements.
- World Wars (20th Century): Both World War I and World War II were seen by many as fulfilling apocalyptic prophecies due to unprecedented global destruction and the rise of totalitarian regimes.
- The Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey, sold millions of copies and was highly influential, especially among evangelical Christians. It contributed to the rise of the "Christian Right" in the United States and helped establish a popular culture of end-times speculation and caused many to believe that that the 1980s could be the time when many of the prophesied events (such as the return of Christ) would occur, based on a specific reading of Bible passages like the book of Revelation and Daniel. Lindsey argued that the establishment of Israel in 1948 was a key sign of the approaching fulfillment of end-time prophecies.
- 88 Reason the Rapture Will Be in 1988 by by Edgar C. Whisenant, playing to some significant degree off of Hal Lindsey's books, caused lots of believing Christians to liquidated their assets, sell their homes, and leave their jobs in preparation for the rapture, only to be sorely disappointed at sunset on the 13th of September, 1988, the end of the 36 hour period of time known as Rosh Ha Shana when Whisenant predicted the rapture would occure.
- Y2K (1999–2000): The turn of the millennium, coupled with fears of technological collapse, led some to predict catastrophic events and the potential for apocalyptic fulfillment.
- Modern Times (21st Century): Events like 9/11, climate change, and pandemics (e.g., COVID-19) have revived apocalyptic anxieties, often framed within biblical prophecy or cultural fears about global collapse.
glorydaz
Well-known member
No, even the world can see the signs. This is not rocket science. It’s so obvious even the ungodly are seeing. They’re asking what in the world is going on, and we, dear brethren, are to be spreading the word. How can the world look to the God of Abraham when believers are refusing to speak up and support Israel. Even denying that the present nation is the Israel of God. It’s a sad state of affairs when the ungodly see what the church, including some members of the body of Christ simply poo poo it.
1 Corinthians 11:1 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.
It is not an exaggeration to say the every single generation that has existed for the last 2000 years has "seen the signs", glorydaz and every single one of them has been wrong, mostly for the same reasons, by the way.
It may well be but isn't a logical necessity. Now, if a BIG bunch of Israelis start becoming Messianic, you'll have a stronger argument and if temple worship and burnt offerings are started back up, then you'd really have a much better argument but shy of either of those things, a political entity with the name "Israel" could exist for a millennia or more without causing a bit of harm to biblical prophecy.
"Poo pooing" it is too strong, at least in regards to what I'm saying. I meant it when I said that we might be in the end times. There's no question that each day that dawns draws us closer and closer to His coming, but biblically the only clue we have been given as to its timing is Romans 11 - "when the fullness of the Gentiles has come in." The only prophesy having to do with the modern church is that of the rapture which is the next thing on the list and so there isn't anything prophesied about Israel that believers today are going to be around to witness.
glorydaz
Well-known member
2 )Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.No one? look on the internet.
Right Divider
Body part
Yet future... what's your point?
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glorydaz
Well-known member
My point is the future is fast approaching, which is what, dear brother I have been saying all along.
glorydaz
Well-known member
That’s right and it seems like that baby will never come, but it’s coming. We are not of the night that it will overtake us. We can see the water is about to break. Just saying, and Paul did tell us to watch. Jesus told us to watch. Are we just supposed to ignore this incredible and unbelievable Increase in knowledge? Are we supposed to ignore the fact that Israel is the fig tree this generation is to watch for. Let’s pretend like the earth isn’t groaning and wrong is being called right…..not like ever before. Ever. I’ve had babies. I know the signs.
Ah yes, the temple. It is being prepared even with the red heifers. They have it ready. The only thing they wait for now is a peace treaty that gives them authority To build it. just because a particular prophecy is only partly accomplished, doesn’t mean it isn’t being fulfilled as we speak.
We’re witnessing the regathering of Israel back to their land. We’re witnessing the nations turning against Israel. And for what reason? God has decreed it will happen. “I would not have you ignorant, brethren…
glorydaz
Well-known member
1 Thess. 5:1-6
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
Right Divider
Body part
No, you've been claiming fulfilled prophecies.
We can all agree on future fulfillment.
glorydaz
Well-known member
The Jews returned to their land. Fulfilled. The land has blossomed. Fulfilled. The fig tree is there for us to see and we are that generation. Are we raptured yet? No, but we are not children of darkness. Just look. That is all I’ve said from the very beginning of this conversation. You just don’t want to give an inch. Admit it.
Again, they do not have all their land back.
Their land includes everything between the river of Egypt, the Nile, and the great river, the Euphrates. (Genesis 15:18)
Currently, the modern nation called Israel only occupies a small portion of that land.
So no, NOT fulfilled.
Saying it doesn't make it so.
I don't understand this response. I did not use the phrase, "no one" in that post and the scripture passage is quoted without any commentary as to just how it is you are applying it or why. In any case, if Zechariah 12:2-3 hasn't already been fulfilled then it isn't going to be fulfilled before God turns back again to Israel after the time of the Gentiles comes to a close, meaning after the rapture has occurred and the tribulation has begun.
These signs you are suggesting have been seen by every generation of believers for the last 2000 years and they almost always have been making the same error that you're making which is directly related to the fact that Jesus DID NOT tell us to watch, He told ISRAEL to watch. You are not a member of Israel, glorydaz, you just aren't and none of the signs you are looking for can even possibly happen before God turns back again to Israel (Romans 11).
Maybe the are and maybe they aren't. I remember like it was yesterday preachers on TBN making the exact same claim in the 1980s! Four decades ago!
It also doesn't mean that it is.
Said by some Christian somewhere probably every single day since 1948.
They've never had to turn, Glorydaz.
There was never any need for God to predestine anyone to hate Israel. All it took was for Abraham to have several sons, for God to choose Jacob over Esau and for God to grow nations from all of these half-brothers and rival twins. In short, all it took was for God to separate Israel from all it neighbors and single it out as His nation. Pride and jealousy did the rest. Which is not to say, by the way, that there is no spiritual aspect to why Israel is so hated, but merely that God isn't up there actively creating the Hitlers and Saddam Hussseins of the world.
Right Divider
Body part
@glorydaz You seem to think that the judgment of the "sheep and the goats" will have only goats.
Matt 25:31-33 (AKJV/PCE)
(25:31) ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: (25:32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: (25:33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Right Divider
Body part
That's an interesting one, isn't it?
Note that it's still Paul that we are to imitate.
The question here is HOW is Paul imitating Christ?