ECT Is "Original sin" Seen by Others as Intrinsic Potential or latent in Creation as Evil

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
And shut your trap, Shugart, re, your humanist conclusion, and false dichotomy, that because children are born with a sin nature, they will be sent to hell by God, if they are killed prior to knowing the good news. That is your accusative spin, twisted humanist thinking, the same kind of dung, that othetr moronds brail like a ja, when they scream. "What about those in the far reaches of....blah blah blah who have no access to the bible, no info on God, and His Christ!!!!!! God sends them to hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!wha wha wha!!! He is a tyrant!!!!!He is not fair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


No, unlike you, I assume that He is holy, just, righteous, fair, and we are not, and does have a just provision, for those, including the "little ones"(another thread)/ You, on the other hand, do not, and think," Well, if this is true,babies are going to hell," w/o considering the whole of scripture, where the LORD God does make provisions, as there is no need to change the book, to fit your humanist thinking, and your doctrine, posting a few verses in isolation, and spinning verses such as Genesis 5:3 KJV, and countless others. Bow to the book, not what you think it should say.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
No, we have Adam's genes, post fall...

Adam was created "very good" and his body did not change when he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That is why we read that the Lord Jesus was made like His brethren "in all things":

"Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people" (Heb.2:17; KJV).​

"For this reason he had to be made like them,fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people"
(Heb.2:17; NIV).​

"Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people" (Heb.2:17; NASB).​

You must think that all of these translations are in error, including the KJV.

Or you must think that the Lord Jesus was made with a vile body.

Which one, sonny boy? You can't have it both ways!

Bow to the book, not what you think it should say.

In "all things," sonny boy. Not just "some things" which you think it should say.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Adam was created "very good" and his body did not change when he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That is why we read that the Lord Jesus was made like His brethren "in all things":

Adam was created mortal so he could die.

Mortals are subject to error and deception.

Adam was created very good but his actions were not good.

Adam died. So will you.

You're hung up on King James English.

Take a look at a KJV dictionary and see what vile meant in the KJV context.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Adam was created very good but his actions were not good.

Why would that change his physical body?

Take a look at a KJV dictionary and see what vile meant in the KJV context.

KJV Dictionary: "Base; mean; worthless; despicable."

David didn't think that his body fell within any of those categories, as evidenced by his words here:

"For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well" (Ps.139:13-14).​
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Adam's eyes were opened when he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Gen.3:7) and he also received a knowledge of good and evil (Gen.3:22).

He went from a state of innocence to one of having a conscience.

Are you thinking God was not aware Adam would sin?

Are you thinking God did not know Satan was in the garden?

Are you thinking God did not know Satan was a deceiver?

Are you thinking Adam was deceived by Satan?

Just what are you thinking?
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Adam was created "very good" and his body did not change when he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That is why we read that the Lord Jesus was made like His brethren "in all things":

"Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people" (Heb.2:17; KJV).​

"For this reason he had to be made like them,fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people"
(Heb.2:17; NIV).​

"Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people" (Heb.2:17; NASB).​

You must think that all of these translations are in error, including the KJV.

Or you must think that the Lord Jesus was made with a vile body.

Which one, sonny boy? You can't have it both ways!



In "all things," sonny boy. Not just "some things" which you think it should say.

No, you must think God was in error when He said he made Adam/Eve in His image and likeness, not "born" as we are, who are born of Adam's post fall image and likeness, and we are "by nature children of wrath." And Eccl 7:29 KJV is referring to Adam, not us, and you must think "upright" means "without sin," thus you assert that the virgin birth/conception was quite irrelevant.


Jerry's admission, again, that he is not a bible believer,once again is demonstrated, i.e., his doctrine determines what the bible should say; if it does not, he either:

-corrects a particular version, usually the KJB, or..

-finds another version, or stack of versions, that say what will "prove" his doctrine, or...

-deletes/add words to versions, usually from his stack of alleged "scholars."

Jerry S:Here is an error filled version, and I will compare it, with a mess of other error filled versions, to come up with perfection.


It's called anti-thinking.


Thus, he is not a bible believer, as correcting any "the bible" presupposes an authority over it, as he rejects the scripture's testimony that it is to correct him, he is not to correct bit, he rejects that he is to submit to the very words, not submit the book to his correction, to make it support/validate/agree with what he believes, and, he rejects the command that, if he does not "get" a particular verse/passage, it is he who is wrong, that needs correction, not the book, as the LORD God deserves "the benefit of the doubt," it is he, the bihble corrector, that is to go back, and survey the book, meditate on it, study it, until he "gets it." But leave the book alone. This is consistent with his humanism approach, that the lost/atheists employ, i.e., I do not understand how God could use fallible human beings, to initially provide His objective words(which, by definition, are w/o error), and subsequently preserve them, w/o error. So, he did not. (fill in the blank with the concept of hell, raising the dead..............)

This is how bible correctors, like this used car salesman Jerry S, "operate," to "prove" anything they want.That is his MO, 'shtick" on TOL.

I apologize to all of TOL for, once again, engaging this bible corrector Jerry S.,in debates, as I forgot his tactics, and let my better judgment to ignore this poser, "back seat" to my thinking that he could be persuaded. I was wrong. Bible correctors, like Jerry S., cannot be corrected, as they are "experts" on correcting the LORD God, as revealed in His book, a quite uncorrectable book/LORD God, by the tactics I explained above, and any attempts to teach them, in their "unteachable spirit," is akin to rearranging the deck chairs, on the SS Titanic.

Have at it, old man, have fun correcting the book, as you can "prove" anything.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Jerry's admission, again, that he is not a bible believer,once again is demonstrated, i.e., his doctrine determines what the bible should say; if it does not, he either:

-corrects a particular version, usually the KJB, or..

Sonny boy, why don't you believe the KJV at Hebrews 2:17 where we read that the Lord Jesus was made like His brethren "in all things"?

According to you it was only some things but not all things. Are you saying that that translation in the KJV is in error?

If your answer is "no" then please tell me why you do not believe that the Lord Jesus was made like His brethren IN ALL THINGS since that is what we read in KJB.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Sonny boy, why don't you believe the KJV at Hebrews 2:17 where we read that the Lord Jesus was made like His brethren "in all things"?

According to you it was only some things but not all things. Are you saying that that translation in the KJV is in error?

If your answer is "no" then please tell me why you do not believe that the Lord Jesus was made like His brethren IN ALL THINGS since that is what we read in KJB.

Slower-reread my post: I do not debate bible correctors, old man; I only attempt to persuade, dispute with bible believers.


Which word did you not understand? You'll probably correct my post. Have at it, bible corrector.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Slower-reread my post: I do not debate bible correctors, old man; I only attempt to persuade, dispute with bible believers.

From your non-answer I can only conclude that you think that the KJV is in error because it says that "in all things" the Lord Jesus was made like His brethren.

You still assert that He was made like His brethren in only some things but not all things, sonny boy?
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
From your non-answer I can only conclude that you think that the KJV is in error because it says that "in all things" the Lord Jesus was made like His brethren.

You still assert that He was made like His brethren in only some things but not all things, sonny boy?

Slower-reread my post: I do not debate bible correctors/mystics/agnostics, old man; I only attempt to persuade, dispute with bible believers.


Which word did you not understand? You'll probably correct my post. Have at it, bible corrector.

And I'd kindly appreciate it, bible corrector/mystic/agnostic, if you'd provide me the verses that require I answer any/all questions posed, as you ask every member on TOL, in deceit, especially from bible correctors/mystics/agnostics, such as yourself, as I've asked you for over 3 years.


You have not, and will not, as you know I will pick you apart, bible corrector/mystic/agnostic.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
I told you exactly what I am thinking.

Do you deny that after eating of the forbidden tree that the eyes of both Adam and Eve were opened and they had a knowledge of good and evil?

Was Adam deceived or did he know what he was doing?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
You have not, and will not, as you know I will pick you apart, bible corrector/mystic/agnostic.

Only in your dreams, sonny boy.

I am still waiting for you to tell me why anyone should believe that people are created with corrupt bodies since the Scriptures tell us that the Lord Jesus was made like His brethren "in all things."

johnny boy will believe the Bible ONLY if the words "in all things" mean the same thing as the words "in some things."
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Only in your dreams, sonny boy.

Then kindly, bible corrector/mystic/agnostic, if provide me the verses that require I answer any/all questions posed, as you ask every member on TOL, in deceit, especially from bible correctors/mystics/agnostics, such as yourself, as I've asked you for over 3 years.


You have not, and will not, as you know I will pick you apart, bible corrector/mystic/agnostic.


As I predicted-you will not.


I am still waiting for you to tell me why anyone should believe that people are created with corrupt bodies since the Scriptures tell us that the Lord Jesus was made like His brethren "in all things."

johnny boy will believe the Bible ONLY if the words "in all things" mean the same thing as the words "in some things."


Real tough guy, are you weak old man, with that "johnny boy" comment. Feel better about your manhood, do you old man? I've seen "pics" of you, on a few sites, from which you've been banned, and it is quite comical in your "johhny boy" comment, as you look quite the sissy, with no hair, and a weak/no chin, weasel, frail looking appearance-quite the "gay, happy" type, aren't you? Try working out to improve your quite wimpy, Wally Cox appearance, Mr. Peepers, Jr.


Jerry's admission, again, that he is not a bible believer,once again is demonstrated, i.e., his doctrine determines what the bible should say; if it does not, he either:

-corrects a particular version, usually the KJB, or..

-finds another version, or stack of versions, that say what will "prove" his doctrine, or...

-deletes/add words to versions, usually from his stack of alleged "scholars."

Jerry S:Here is an error filled version, and I will compare it, with a mess of other error filled versions, to come up with perfection.


It's called anti-thinking.


Thus, he is not a bible believer, as correcting any "the bible" presupposes an authority over it, as he rejects the scripture's testimony that it is to correct him, he is not to correct bit, he rejects that he is to submit to the very words, not submit the book to his correction, to make it support/validate/agree with what he believes, and, he rejects the command that, if he does not "get" a particular verse/passage, it is he who is wrong, that needs correction, not the book, as the LORD God deserves "the benefit of the doubt," it is he, the bihble corrector, that is to go back, and survey the book, meditate on it, study it, until he "gets it." But leave the book alone. This is consistent with his humanism approach, that the lost/atheists employ, i.e., I do not understand how God could use fallible human beings, to initially provide His objective words(which, by definition, are w/o error), and subsequently preserve them, w/o error. So, he did not. (fill in the blank with the concept of hell, raising the dead..............)

This is how bible correctors, like this used car salesman Jerry S, "operate," to "prove" anything they want.That is his MO, 'shtick" on TOL.

I apologize to all of TOL for, once again, engaging this bible corrector Jerry S.,in debates, as I forgot his tactics, and let my better judgment to ignore this poser, "back seat" to my thinking that he could be persuaded. I was wrong. Bible correctors, like Jerry S., cannot be corrected, as they are "experts" on correcting the LORD God, as revealed in His book, a quite uncorrectable book/LORD God, by the tactics I explained above, and any attempts to teach them, in their "unteachable spirit," is akin to rearranging the deck chairs, on the SS Titanic.

Slower-reread my post: I do not debate bible correctors/mystics/agnostics, old man; I only attempt to persuade, dispute with bible believers.That excludes you. Dig? Which word did you not understand?

You'll probably correct my post. Have at it, bible corrector.



Have at it, old man, have fun correcting the book, as you can "prove" anything.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Only in your dreams, sonny boy.

I am still waiting for you to tell me why anyone should believe that people are created with corrupt bodies since the Scriptures tell us that the Lord Jesus was made like His brethren "in all things."

johnny boy will believe the Bible ONLY if the words "in all things" mean the same thing as the words "in some things."
Slower still:
I do not debate bible correctors/mystics/agnostics, old man, such as yourself; I only attempt to persuade, dispute with bible believers.
 
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