Is marital rape scripturally defensible?

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Traditio

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According to the Bible, menstruation is a time that the husband is to avoid sex with his wife.
So, St. Thomas Aquinas would be wrong in saying that it is not a good enough reason.

Correction: According to the Mosaic Law, menstruation is a time at which the husband is to avoid having sexual contact with his wife. Last I checked, we don't live under the Jewish Law.

Menstruation, of course, very well might be a good time at which to avoid sexual contact with one's wife. It might be highly advised to do so. Perhaps even the husband should not even be asking at such a time and perhaps might wish to retract his request when he is informed that it's "that time of the month." Nonetheless, it remains true that it's not a good reason for the wife to say "no."
 

Traditio

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A feminized, revisionist falsehood.

The rib comes from Mesopotamian lore, in which a god was cursed by a goddess.
Imagine that.

1. I wish first to note that the interpretation, so far as I recall, either is from St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas. I could be in error about this, but I don't think that it's a modern interpretation. I am reasonably sure that it's late medieval at the very latest.

2. I think it's utterly wrong to try to interpret the scriptural texts in terms of (false) pagan mythologies. Whatever Moses intended in writing the Torah, he wrote truly.

3. Furthermore, as St. Augustine himself insists, in interpreting the Bible, we should have before our eyes, at all times, the two great commandments of Jesus, and this should be our hermeneutical (intepretative) lens when we read it, always keeping firmly before our minds eye that the reading of the Scriptures should bring us to a greater love for God and neighbor.

In light of 2, we should set the story of woman's production in the greater context of chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis. In the first place, against your view that woman is an evil and curse for man, we should note Genesis 1:26-31: the creation of the human race, and its division into male and female, marks a kind of "high point" for the creation of the sensible cosmos, and God recognizes in His work, and in this primordial division of humanity into man and woman, that His works are good.

We may view Genesis 2 as a kind of exposition and continuation of these verses. Why does God produce the woman from the side of the man? Because He recognizes that it is not good for man to be alone. This may be taken in two senses:

A. Man has a natural ordering to communion with other persons. As Aristotle notes, man is a political animal. He has a natural "openness" to friendship, a natural openness which perfectly is realized in Heaven, wherein the saints enjoy a most perfect friendship with God and with each other...and most hindered in Hell...the damned, though in the presence of Satan and each other, are utterly isolated, affectively speaking, from everyone else. There is no possibility of love, no possibility of friendship in Hell.

A corollary to this: virtue and charity unite; sin and vice isolate.

At any rate, man has a natural openness to friendship...God recognizes that Adam stands in need of friendship. He satisfies this need, naturally speaking, by producing a woman from his side. [Again, the natural friendship enjoyed among men should be seen as a kind of prefigurement of the most perfect friendship enjoyed by the saints in Heaven.]

B. It is not good that man should alone constitute the whole of the human race, i.e., that there should be no women. It is good that the human race should be divided into both men and women. Why? Because male and female are mutually complementary to each other.

To my mind, these comments have considerable import for marriage.
 

elohiym

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For the wife, this means: "I don't feel like it," "I have a headache," "I just washed my hair" and even "I am menstrating (as St. Thomas Aquinas tells us)" aren't good enough reasons to say "no."

"I don't feel like it," means she is not aroused. That is a good enough reason to say no. Why should sex be obligatory when she is not aroused? Is the husband obliged to arouse her first?
 

exminister

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Think of forcing yourself on your wife after she says "NO"

AND THEN CONSIDER

Gal 5:22-23 KJV
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


When doing so are you expressing the fruit of the Spirit?
 

elohiym

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GO, ok doser, and Crucible, is your general idea this......that in marriage your body is no longer your own so rape in marriage is a contradiction and can't exist?
in a Godly marriage, yes

as per scripture

If a husband forces his wife to engage in any sexual act, it follows that he obviously believes his body is his own to what he wants with even if his wife objects.

what scriptural references to rape do you think should apply to a married couple?

The golden rule, for starters (Mt 7:12). Romans 13:1-7 regarding the government's determination that marital rape exists and is criminal. Romans 13:8 et seq regarding marital obligation, i.e. the alleged "marital debt" Trad mentioned. Also, as I pointed out above regarding the co-ownership of the body.
 

elohiym

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if a husband kills his wife, it's not a Godly marriage :duh:

You believe if a husband forces sex on his wife it's not rape and they could have a "Godly marriage" while at the same time believe that if a stranger forced sex on his wife it would be rape.

Never go full retard, dude.

How are you defining an non-Godly marriage?
one that doesn't follow scriptural precepts

A man forcing sex on his wife is violating scriptural precepts.
 

elohiym

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Arthur Brain

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An inconvenience.

A woman crying rape by her husband is just dumb. A sad result of this ridiculous victim complex that women have obtained.

It's as dumb as a man crying rape when refusing sex and his wife forcing it, like when a man comes home from hard labor or in cases where the wife forces forgiveness through entrapping him with sex. It happens, and it's crude, but it's not 'rape'.

You really are a nut. You know absolutely zero about rape, how devastating it can affect someone be it within or outside of a marriage. You're nothing but some ignorant little git who has a hang up with women.

Crank.
 

Rusha

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You really are a nut. You know absolutely zero about rape, how devastating it can affect someone be it within or outside of a marriage. You're nothing but some ignorant little git who has a hang up with women.

Crank.

He definitely has some grudge ...
 

Traditio

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"I don't feel like it," means she is not aroused. That is a good enough reason to say no.

I disagree. That's simply not how debts work. "I won't pay up because I don't feel like paying" isn't good enough.

Why should sex be obligatory when she is not aroused?

That's the nature of the marital obligation. Each party is required to accede to the demand of the other unless grave circumstances intervene.

Do please note, however, that the rule in all of this is charitable love. Perhaps we would do better to consider less the "rights" of each spouse, and consider more the obligations of each, if only they had an attitude of charitable love, self-sacrifice and self-giving.

If the woman had such an attitude, she would realize that "I am not currently prepared for this" is not an excuse, not, at least, if preparations easily might be made.

"You owe me five dollars." "Eh...my wallet's in my pocket...I don't feel like pulling it out..."

The only way that "I am not in the mood" could possibly fly is if this indicates a physical impossibility. For example, in the case of male dysfunction and a bad heart, he easily could say "no."

Is the husband obliged...

Again, "charitable love, self-sacrifice and self-giving." We may add to this "respect and concern for the emotions, well being, etc. of the other."
 

ClimateSanity

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The act of copulation should never be forced. That part is not what is owed. Everything that leads up to that should always be accepted. There is no reason to refuse it. If she objects because you have been a jerk all day and inconsiderate, then that has to be made amends for before a reasonable request can be made. However, if the wife is just tired of the husband and is no longer attracted to him, and doesn't try to make things better, the marriage is over IMO and the husband should have a biblical right to divorce his wife. If there is no specific mention of it in the bible, it seems like it is supported somehow.
 

Traditio

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The act of copulation should never be forced. That part is not what is owed. Everything that leads up to that should always be accepted. There is no reason to refuse it. If she objects because you have been a jerk all day and inconsiderate, then that has to be made amends for before a reasonable request can be made. However, if the wife is just tired of the husband and is no longer attracted to him, and doesn't try to make things better, the marriage is over IMO and the husband should have a biblical right to divorce his wife. If there is no specific mention of it in the bible, it seems like it is supported somehow.

According to the Christian faith, Christian marriage is indissoluble.
 
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