Is John 3:7 for today ?

Derf

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In Acts 10:35 reads , but in every nation // ethnos , the one revering Him is working righteousness is acceptable to Him !!@

and that includes Cornelius !!

dan p
Yes, but Peter didn't understand that the same message that he and the apostles were commissioned to speak to "the people" (Israel), he was now speaking to Cornelius, at God's direction. The same message. The same gospel. It was new that it was to go to the Gentiles, but it wasn't a new message.
 

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Yes, but Peter didn't understand that the same message that he and the apostles were commissioned to speak to "the people" (Israel), he was now speaking to Cornelius, at God's direction. The same message. The same gospel. It was new that it was to go to the Gentiles, but it wasn't a new message.
Not the "same gospel" as Paul was preaching. That gospel was hidden until God gave it to Paul.
 

Derf

Well-known member
Not the "same gospel" as Paul was preaching. That gospel was hidden until God gave it to Paul.
Can you quote scripture that says "until God gave it to Paul"? I submit that it was hid until Paul's time, but obviously Peter was preaching the gospel to Cornelius. He certainly wasn't preaching your 'gospel of the kingdom' to him. And surely you don't think Peter was preaching Paul's gospel. Your gospel of false dichotomies is getting you all confused.
 

Right Divider

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Can you quote scripture that says "until God gave it to Paul"? I submit that it was hid until Paul's time, but obviously Peter was preaching the gospel to Cornelius.
Peter was not preaching the gospel of the grace of God to Cornelius.
He certainly wasn't preaching your 'gospel of the kingdom' to him.
Peter was not preaching the gospel of the grace of God to Cornelius.
And surely you don't think Peter was preaching Paul's gospel. Your gospel of false dichotomies is getting you all confused.
LOL. You're a very confused but funny guy.

Peter did not even know about the gospel of the grace of God until Paul told him about it.

Acts 10:35 (AKJV/PCE)​
(10:35) But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

That is definitely NOT the gospel of the grace of God.
 

Derf

Well-known member
Peter was not preaching the gospel of the grace of God to Cornelius.

Peter was not preaching the gospel of the grace of God to Cornelius.

LOL. You're a very confused but funny guy.

Peter did not even know about the gospel of the grace of God until Paul told him about it.

Acts 10:35 (AKJV/PCE)​
(10:35) But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

That is definitely NOT the gospel of the grace of God.
So what I think you're saying is that we are not to fear God or work righteousness? Is that part of the grace of God? You are saying that we are free to be like this:
"lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than
lovers of God;"?

Or this:
" fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness,... filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, ... whoremonger, "

Or this:
uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts...vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:...men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly,...
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
???
Certainly doing those kind of things is not the gospel of the grace of God, is it?

Maybe you should explain the gospel of the grace of God to me, and how it means we don't need to fear God or work righteousness.
 

Right Divider

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So what I think you're saying is that we are not to fear God or work righteousness?
Not to be "accepted in Him" we don't.
Is that part of the grace of God? You are saying that we are free to be like this:
"lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than
lovers of God;"?
You sound exactly like those that accused Paul of teaching that sin was OK. You're in bad company.
Or this:
" fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness,... filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, ... whoremonger, "

Or this:
uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts...vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:...men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly,...
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
???
Certainly doing those kind of things is not the gospel of the grace of God, is it?

Maybe you should explain the gospel of the grace of God to me, and how it means we don't need to fear God or work righteousness.
I guess that you are also unsaved... If you think that your "works of righteousness" contribute to your salvation.
 

Derf

Well-known member
Not to be "accepted in Him" we don't.

You sound exactly like those that accused Paul of teaching that sin was OK. You're in bad company.

I guess that you are also unsaved... If you think that your "works of righteousness" contribute to your salvation.
That's gotta be the absolute worst explanation of any gospel I've ever heard.

Do you not even listen to Paul?
[Rom 12:1 NKJV] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, [which is] your reasonable service.
[Rom 14:18 NKJV] For he who serves Christ in these things [is] acceptable to God and approved by men
[1Ti 2:3 NKJV] For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior (that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.)
[1Ti 5:4 NKJV] But if any widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show piety at home and to repay their parents; for this is good and acceptable before God.

Those bolded words...you realize that they mean "righteousness" and "fear", right? So Paul tells us that fearing God and working righteousness is acceptable to God, but you're saying we can be acceptable before God without righteousness and fear. Are you sure you're ready to offer a gospel that goes against Paul's?
 

JudgeRightly

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That's gotta be the absolute worst explanation of any gospel I've ever heard.

Do you not even listen to Paul?

Of course we do.

[Rom 12:1 NKJV] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, [which is] your reasonable service.
[Rom 14:18 NKJV] For he who serves Christ in these things [is] acceptable to God and approved by men
[1Ti 2:3 NKJV] For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior (that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.)
[1Ti 5:4 NKJV] But if any widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show piety at home and to repay their parents; for this is good and acceptable before God.

AMEN!

Those bolded words...you realize that they mean "righteousness" and "fear", right? So Paul tells us that fearing God and working righteousness is acceptable to God,

Correct. But that's not what RD was talking about.

To be "accepted in Him" is not talking about "what is acceptable to God."

This is what happens when you just search for a term instead of understanding what exactly is being said.

To be "accepted in Him" is talking about getting saved.

"What is acceptable TO Him" is talking about one's behavior AFTER one is saved, and has no bearing on BEING saved.

but you're saying we can be acceptable before God without righteousness and fear. Are you sure you're ready to offer a gospel that goes against Paul's?

No, he's not.

Just as Paul said:

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

As RD said, you are literally asking what is underlined in the above passage, accusing us of teaching that it's OK to sin, when that's not what we're doing.

It's an EXCELLENT litmus test to see if one is teaching the gospel Paul taught.

What RD had said was that we do not need to DO anything TO BE SAVED ("fearing God and working righteousness"). God alone saves.

Neither faith nor works are meritorious.
 

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That's gotta be the absolute worst explanation of any gospel I've ever heard.
You're starting to sound like Gary K. You are irrational and emotional.
Do you not even listen to Paul?
Yes, I do... you should too.
[Rom 12:1 NKJV] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, [which is] your reasonable service.
This "reasonable service" comes AFTER we get saved.
[Rom 14:18 NKJV] For he who serves Christ in these things [is] acceptable to God and approved by men
[1Ti 2:3 NKJV] For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior (that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.)
Again, those who "serve Christ" do so AFTER they are saved. Or do you think that unbelievers "serve Christ"?
[1Ti 5:4 NKJV] But if any widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show piety at home and to repay their parents; for this is good and acceptable before God.
For the THIRD time, this refers to how SAVED people should behave. It is NOT how they get saved.
Those bolded words...you realize that they mean "righteousness" and "fear", right?
I sure do understand your attempted misdirection.
So Paul tells us that fearing God and working righteousness is acceptable to God, but you're saying we can be acceptable before God without righteousness and fear.
Righteous and fear are NOT requirements to be saved BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH in THIS dispensation.

Peter was NOT preaching the gospel of the grace of God to Cornelius.
Are you sure you're ready to offer a gospel that goes against Paul's?
Lying is a sin Derf. (i.e., false witness).
 

Derf

Well-known member
Of course we do.



AMEN!



Correct. But that's not what RD was talking about.

To be "accepted in Him" is not talking about "what is acceptable to God."

This is what happens when you just search for a term instead of understanding what exactly is being said.

To be "accepted in Him" is talking about getting saved.

"What is acceptable TO Him" is talking about one's behavior AFTER one is saved, and has no bearing on BEING saved.



No, he's not.

Just as Paul said:

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

As RD said, you are literally asking what is underlined in the above passage, accusing us of teaching that it's OK to sin, when that's not what we're doing.

It's an EXCELLENT litmus test to see if one is teaching the gospel Paul taught.

What RD had said was that we do not need to DO anything TO BE SAVED ("fearing God and working righteousness"). God alone saves.

Neither faith nor works are meritorious.
RD responded to a post of mine replying to Dan P, talking about what Peter gave to Cornelius. Nothing I said was intended to say that we must do works of righteousness in order to be saved. That is the gospel of grace that applies to all men, Jew and Gentile. Peter gave that gospel to Cornelius...you can tell because he didn't require them to become circumcised. But he also made a statement that God honors those who fear God and do righteous works (like Cornelius). ANd how did God honor Cornelius' fear of God and righteous works? By telling him how to find someone that would explain how to be saved, which he obviously wasn't already just by his fear of God and righteous works. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but it isn't the end of it.

Luke described a similar situation with Paul and Lydia, who was described as a woman who worshiped God (similar to "feared" God). And God opened her heart to Paul's message. She might have already feared God, but she still needed to hear Paul's message of the gospel of grace.
 

Right Divider

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But he also made a statement that God honors those who fear God and do righteous works (like Cornelius).
How very dishonest of you.

No, it says that God ACCEPTS those that fear Him and worketh righteousness.
ACCEPTS and NOT "honors".

Acts 10:35 (AKJV/PCE)​
(10:35) But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
 

Bright Raven

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It is definitely written to Israel. Genesis through Acts and Hebrews through Revelation are written to Israel. Romans through Philemon are the books written to the Church.
 

Derf

Well-known member
How very dishonest of you.

No, it says that God ACCEPTS those that fear Him and worketh righteousness.
ACCEPTS and NOT "honors".

Acts 10:35 (AKJV/PCE)​
(10:35) But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Same idea. Isn't it an honor to be accepted into the presence of a king, or of God? Plus, it's actually stated here (different translation, but that's the whole idea, that one word might substitute for the other):
Psalm 15:4 NASB20 — A despicable person is despised in his eyes, But he honors those who fear the LORD;

And the next part of the verse says it is valid in Acts, just like it was in Psalms:
He takes an oath to his own detriment, and does not change;
 

Derf

Well-known member
It is definitely written to Israel. Genesis through Acts and Hebrews through Revelation are written to Israel. Romans through Philemon are the books written to the Church.
At least part of Revelation was written to GENTILE churches. It certainly doesn't say "to the angel of the church of Jerusalem..." anywhere.
 

Right Divider

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Same idea. Isn't it an honor to be accepted into the presence of a king, or of God? Plus, it's actually stated here (different translation, but that's the whole idea, that one word might substitute for the other):
Psalm 15:4 NASB20 — A despicable person is despised in his eyes, But he honors those who fear the LORD;

And the next part of the verse says it is valid in Acts, just like it was in Psalms:
He takes an oath to his own detriment, and does not change;
I understand that you cannot tell the difference between Gods various dealings with mankind.
 

JudgeRightly

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At least part of Revelation was written to GENTILE churches. It certainly doesn't say "to the angel of the church of Jerusalem..." anywhere.

I think you'll find that God specifically told Paul to avoid the cities of the churches addressed in Revelation. Took him completely around them.

Jerusalem is not in Asia Minor. The churches in Revelation are.

Coincidence? I think not.
 

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At least part of Revelation was written to GENTILE churches.
No, it's not. Those seven churches in Asia are all Jewish in nature.
It's so easy to see, but some cannot.

Rev 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)​
(2:9) I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 3:9 (AKJV/PCE)​
(3:9) Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.​

Don't forget that John was one of those that agreed to restrict their ministry to the circumcision!

It certainly doesn't say "to the angel of the church of Jerusalem..." anywhere.
So what?

Perhaps you never heard that the twelve tribes were scattered abroad. James 1:1, 1 Peter 1:1
 

Derf

Well-known member
I think you'll find that God specifically told Paul to avoid the cities of the churches addressed in Revelation. Took him completely around them.

Jerusalem is not in Asia Minor. The churches in Revelation are.

Coincidence? I think not.
Paul never went to Ephesus? Are you serious?
 

Derf

Well-known member
No, it's not. Those seven churches in Asia are all Jewish in nature.
Then you're saying Paul backed out of the agreement, since he went to Ephesus.
It's so easy to see, but some cannot.

Rev 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)​
(2:9) I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 3:9 (AKJV/PCE)​
(3:9) Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.​

Don't forget that John was one of those that agreed to restrict their ministry to the circumcision!
Just as Paul agreed to limit his ministry to the Gentiles. Now you're telling me he preached to a Jewish church?
So what?

Perhaps you never heard that the twelve tribes were scattered abroad. James 1:1, 1 Peter 1:1
And Paul shared his gospel with those scattered twelve tribes. Either the agreement was binding on Paul or it wasn't. Which way is it going to be?

Rather the agreement seems to be restricted in geographic territory, with Paul going to Gentile cities (like Ephesus), and the 12 going to Jewish cities (like Jerusalem, Capernaum, Samaria).
 

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Then you're saying Paul backed out of the agreement, since he went to Ephesus.
Nope... you poor confused soul.
Just as Paul agreed to limit his ministry to the Gentiles.
That's NOT what the scripture says.

Read it AGAIN:
Gal 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)​
(2:9) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
The "heathen" includes unbelieving Jews.
Now you're telling me he preached to a Jewish church?
Sometimes Paul went to synagogues and preached to UNBELIEVING Jews.
And Paul shared his gospel with those scattered twelve tribes. Either the agreement was binding on Paul or it wasn't. Which way is it going to be?
Supra
Rather the agreement seems to be restricted in geographic territory,
Nope.
with Paul going to Gentile cities (like Ephesus), and the 12 going to Jewish cities (like Jerusalem, Capernaum, Samaria).
There were Jews and Gentiles in every place on earth.
 
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