Is Jesus God?

[Bright Raven]

Jesus never said that he was God. In fact Jesus said that God was his Father and God the Father spoke from heaven and said that Jesus is his Son.

John 10:36
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Matthew 3:17
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

John 1:1 New International Version (NIV)
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14 New International Version (NIV)
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 8:58 New International Version (NIV)
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

 

[Lon]

Jesus cannot be God if Jesus ascended to his God... Jesus cannot be God if God sent him to be the savior of the world... Jesus cannot be God if God made him Lord and Christ...

Yet John 1:1 and John 20:28 says its so :think: I get this: Unit-Arians always try to 'logic' instead of believe what is in black and white in print. I do understand the 'cannot' yet scripture says 'can' and we have to believe what we cannot grasp, simply because it is scripture. "...was with AND was God..."
it doesn't 'make sense' but it is inescapable.

 

[newbirth61]

Yet John 1:1 and John 20:28 says its so :think: I get this: Unit-Arians always try to 'logic' instead of believe what is in black and white in print. I do understand the 'cannot' yet scripture says 'can' and we have to believe what we cannot grasp, simply because it is scripture. "...was with AND was God..."
it doesn't 'make sense' but it is inescapable.

None of those verses say"Jesus is God" what you are saying is that you understand the scripture to mean that.... which is what you have to say...I have posted verses that are explicit... Jesus is the son of God... Jesus ascended to His God... God said that Jesus is his so...I am not going to argue with what you conclude based on your own understanding...So unless you have a verse that says Jesus is God.. Jesus is the son of God

 

[NWL]

Yet John 1:1 and John 20:28 says its so :think: I get this: Unit-Arians always try to 'logic' instead of believe what is in black and white in print. I do understand the 'cannot' yet scripture says 'can' and we have to believe what we cannot grasp, simply because it is scripture. "...was with AND was God..."
it doesn't 'make sense' but it is inescapable.

What lots of people miss is that most people who are unitarians speak and say things such as "Jesus isn't God" they aren't denying that he is a God/god in some sense since the scripture are clear at times his referred to as a God (Isa 9:6) like many others are referred to as God. When we say "Jesus isn't God" we are referring to him being "the God", namely the one God (1 Cor 8:4-6)as spoken of throughout the Bible, this understandably implied in our speech.

 

[Right Divider]

None of those verses say"Jesus is God" what you are saying is that you understand the scripture to mean that.... which is what you have to say...I have posted verses that are explicit... Jesus is the son of God... Jesus ascended to His God... God said that Jesus is his so...I am not going to argue with what you conclude based on your own understanding...So unless you have a verse that says Jesus is God.. Jesus is the son of God

There is no verse that says that Jesus it not God. Unless you can provide a verse that says that Jesus is not God....

That's your kind of fallacious reasoning.

John describes Jesus as "the Word" that was God. And John also says that the Word was made flesh. That you cannot handle this and must force some other meaning on it is your problem.

 

[7djengo7]

Djengo your posts bore me,

Gnashing your teeth in "boredom", eh.

Here, continue to be "bored", then. Here, again, is you contradicting yourself:

Jesus did not want people to worship him directly.

VS​

We worship Jesus directly,

It must be incredibly "boring" for you to have to remain absolutely silent regarding your contradiction, for you to be completely at a loss for how to try to save face from the embarrassment you've caused yourself by your egregious contradiction.

 

[NWL]

Gnashing your teeth in "boredom", eh.

Here, continue to be "bored", then. Here, again, is you contradicting yourself:

VS​

It must be incredibly "boring" for you to have to remain absolutely silent regarding your contradiction, for you to be completely at a loss for how to try to save face from the embarrassment you've caused yourself by your egregious contradiction.

Once again, try and quote me in full buddy. You ignore the context and my classifications I made in my last and previous replies, yawn... again your post are boring, all your replies are showing is your ability to ignore the points I keep covering. I explained exactly what I meant by my words "Jesus did not want people to worship him directly", it's not my issue if you want to ignore what I said.

 

[Bright Raven]

Once again, try and quote me in full buddy. You ignore the context and my classifications I made in my last and previous replies, yawn... again your post are boring, all your replies are showing is your ability to ignore the points I keep covering. I explained exactly what I meant by my words "Jesus did not want people to worship him directly", it's not my issue if you want to ignore what I said.

Yet Jesus accepted worship. What do you say about that?

 

[NWL]

Yet Jesus accepted worship. What do you say about that?

Any worship that was given to Jesus was to the Father glory and not his own, we can see this by Phil 2:9-11 where we see every knee bending but it does not state it is for Jesus glory but rather the Fathers. This is because as Jesus stated "no one comes to the Fathe expect through me" (John 14:6), thus to bend the knee to the Father we must bend the knee to Jesus, it is not for Jesus glorification though but the Fathers glory, as the verse states.

(Philippians 2:10, 11) "..so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend... and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.."

When you bend the knee to Jesus whose glory is it to according to Phil 2:10,11, Jesus or the Fathers?

Also, what scriptures do you speak of when you say Jesus acccepted worship?

 

[newbirth61]

Yet John 1:1 and John 20:28 says its so :think: I get this: Unit-Arians always try to 'logic' instead of believe what is in black and white in print. I do understand the 'cannot' yet scripture says 'can' and we have to believe what we cannot grasp, simply because it is scripture. "...was with AND was God..."
it doesn't 'make sense' but it is inescapable.

It doesn't make sense because it's nonsense...It makes God a liar... God said that Jesus is his son...it makes Jesus a liar ... Jesus said that God is his father.... Jesus cannot be his own father and God cannot be his own son...It also makes the Apostles liars because they testified that the father sent the son. It makes John a liar because according to you John is saying that Jesus is God in one part of his writing then in another part he is saying that God sent Jesus to be the saviour of the world...

 

[JudgeRightly]

It doesn't make sense because it's nonsense...It makes God a liar... God said that Jesus is his son...it makes Jesus a liar ... Jesus said that God is his father.... Jesus cannot be his own father and God cannot be his own son...It also makes the Apostles liars because they testified that the father sent the son. It makes John a liar because according to you John is saying that Jesus is God in one part of his writing then in another part he is saying that God sent Jesus to be the saviour of the world...

No trinitarian calls Jesus "God the Father."

 

[newbirth61]

There is no verse that says that Jesus it not God. Unless you can provide a verse that says that Jesus is not God....

That's your kind of fallacious reasoning.

John describes Jesus as "the Word" that was God. And John also says that the Word was made flesh. That you cannot handle this and must force some other meaning on it is your problem.

I don't need a verse that says Jesus is not God because Jesus himself said that the father is the only true God...So your argument is not with me... Your argument is with Jesus...John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me

Read it seven times... the only true God sent Jesus...

 

[newbirth61]

No trinitarian calls Jesus "God the Father."

Because Jesus is not God... Plus God didn't call anyone to be a trinitarian... whatever that is it's not of God...

 

[JudgeRightly]

I don't need a verse that says Jesus is not God because Jesus himself said that the father is the only true God...So your argument is not with me... Your argument is with Jesus...

. . .

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

. . .

Read it seven times... the only true God sent Jesus...

Sounds like you need to pay more attention when you read.

It says "the Father is the only true God."

It does not, however, say "ONLY the Father is the (only) true God."

 

[Right Divider]

I don't need a verse that says Jesus is not God because Jesus himself said that the father is the only true God...So your argument is not with me... Your argument is with Jesus...John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

Note what it says and what it does NOT say.

It does NOT say that only the Father is the true God.

No, my argument is not with Jesus. My argument is with your false understanding.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Because Jesus is not God... Plus God didn't call anyone to be a trinitarian... whatever that is it's not of God...

THREE QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE IF THE TRINITY IS BIBLICALLY TRUE OR FALSE. If any one of these questions can be answered 'no,' then the Trinity can be rejected as an unbiblical belief. But if all three can be answered 'yes,' then the concept of the Trinity can be accepted as true. 1. Does the Bible mention three distinct persons? 2. Does the Bible refer to each of these persons as God? 3. Does the Bible teach there is only one God? The answers: 1. Are three distinct persons mentioned? YES. A. The Father (1 John 3:1) B. The Son (1 John 1:3) C. The Holy Spirit (John 14:6; 14:26; 15:26; 16:13-14; Romans 15:30; Ephesians 4:30) 2. Are each of these persons referred to as God? YES. A. God the Father (1 Thessalonians 1:1) B. God the Son (John 1:1; 20:28; Hebrews 1:8-9) C. God the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4) 3. Is there only one God? YES. (see Deuteronomy 4:35-39; Psalm 86:10; Isaiah 45:5; 45:22)

FOR ANYONE WHO REJECTS THE TRINITY AS BIBLICAL:
Please show how the verses provided do not answer in the affirmative all three questions asked.

 

[newbirth61]

John 1:1 New International Version (NIV)
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14 New International Version (NIV)
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 8:58 New International Version (NIV)
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

Nothing there saying Jesus is God... God is not flesh... Jesus said that he came out from God... that does not make him God..In the same way a man's children is considered to come out of his loins... does that make his children him??? You came out of your father's loin ... Are you your father???

 

[newbirth61]

THREE QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE IF THE TRINITY IS BIBLICALLY TRUE OR FALSE. If any one of these questions can be answered 'no,' then the Trinity can be rejected as an unbiblical belief. But if all three can be answered 'yes,' then the concept of the Trinity can be accepted as true. 1. Does the Bible mention three distinct persons? 2. Does the Bible refer to each of these persons as God? 3. Does the Bible teach there is only one God? The answers: 1. Are three distinct persons mentioned? YES. A. The Father (1 John 3:1) B. The Son (1 John 1:3) C. The Holy Spirit (John 14:6; 14:26; 15:26; 16:13-14; Romans 15:30; Ephesians 4:30) 2. Are each of these persons referred to as God? YES. A. God the Father (1 Thessalonians 1:1) B. God the Son (John 1:1; 20:28; Hebrews 1:8-9) C. God the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4) 3. Is there only one God? YES. (see Deuteronomy 4:35-39; Psalm 86:10; Isaiah 45:5; 45:22)

FOR ANYONE WHO REJECTS THE TRINITY AS BIBLICAL:
Please show how the verses provided do not answer in the affirmative all three questions asked.

That is nonsense...to show me that the Trinity is biblically true you have to show me where the scripture says that God is a Trinity... not asking loaded questions. What is a distinct person??? A distinct person is an imaginary construct to support the Trinity. God the Father is a spirit... not a person... unless you are saying that a spirit is a person. The holy Spirit is the spirit of God... not a person... unless you are saying that a spirit is a person. See you have to make the most high God the Father... into a person in order to materialize your Trinity. I am not buying into your nonsense.

 

[Right Divider]

Nothing there saying Jesus is God... God is not flesh... Jesus said that he came out from God... that does not make him God..In the same way a man's children is considered to come out of his loins... does that make his children him??? You came out of your father's loin ... Are you your father???

Fallacious logic is all the rage these days.

No, a son is not his father... but a son has the same NATURE as his father.

The Son of God is God, just like His Father.

 

[newbirth61]

Note what it says and what it does NOT say.

It does NOT say that only the Father is the true God.

No, my argument is not with Jesus. My argument is with your false understanding.

Well since you are going down the what it does not say route...we can close this argument once and for all...It does not say that God is a Trinity...it does not say three distinct persons....It does say the only true God...do you have another only true God apart from the Father???
Please let me know what you understand by "only".. since you have a problem with my understanding of only...