Is Jesus God?

[keypurr]

1 John 4:2
(Bishops) Hereby shall ye knowe the spirite of God: Euery spirite that confesseth that Iesus Christe is come in the fleshe, is of God:
(ESV) By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
(ESV+) By this you know the Spirit of God: R25every spirit that confesses that R26Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
(Geneva) Hereby shall ye know the Spirit of God, Euery spirit which confesseth that Iesus Christ is come in the flesh, is of God.
(GNB) This is how you will be able to know whether it is God's Spirit: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus Christ came as a human being has the Spirit who comes from God.
(ISV) This is how you can recognize God's Spirit: Every spirit who acknowledges that Jesus the Messiah has become human—and remains so—is from God.
(KJV) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:1 John 4:2
(Bishops) Hereby shall ye knowe the spirite of God: Euery spirite that confesseth that Iesus Christe is come in the fleshe, is of God:
(ESV) By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
(ESV+) By this you know the Spirit of God: R25every spirit that confesses that R26Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
(Geneva) Hereby shall ye know the Spirit of God, Euery spirit which confesseth that Iesus Christ is come in the flesh, is of God.
(GNB) This is how you will be able to know whether it is God's Spirit: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus Christ came as a human being has the Spirit who comes from God.
(ISV) This is how you can recognize God's Spirit: Every spirit who acknowledges that Jesus the Messiah has become human—and remains so—is from God.
(KJV) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Is that all you got JR?

Heb 1:1 God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners,
Heb 1:2 hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 having become by so much better than the angels, as he hath inherited a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee? and again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son?
Heb 1:6 And when he again bringeth in the firstborn into the world he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels winds, And his ministers a flame a fire:
Heb 1:8 but of the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee With the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of thy hands:
Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou continuest: And they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Heb 1:12 And as a mantle shalt thou roll them up, As a garment, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, And thy years shall not fail.
Heb 1:13 But of which of the angels hath he said at any time, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies the footstool of thy feet?
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to do service for the sake of them that shall inherit salvation?

Phi 2:5 Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phi 2:6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Phi 2:7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;
Phi 2:8 and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross.
Phi 2:9 Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name;
Phi 2:10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth,
Phi 2:11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Jo 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Jam 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.



Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loveth us, and loosed us from our sins by his blood;
Rev 1:6 and he made us to be a kingdom, to be priests unto his God and Father; to him be the glory and the dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Joh 14:23 TWO, not ONE

(ASV) Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

(DRB) Jesus answered and said to him: If any one love me, he will keep my word. And my Father will love him and we will come to him and will make our abode with him.

(GNB) Jesus answered him, "Those who love me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and my Father and I will come to them and live with them.

(KJVR) Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Joh 14:1 "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. Joh 14:1 "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.

Joh 17:21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Joh 17:21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,
1Co 15:24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
1Co 15:27 For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Mat 20:20 Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came to Jesus with her sons, bowing down and making a request of Him.
c

The Holy Bible, New International Version.

Eph 1:17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom n and revelation, so that you may know him better. NIV

Ro 15:5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus,
Ro 15:6 so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. NIV

Rev 1:5. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
Rev 1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father —to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. NIV

Mar 10:18 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

Luk 18:19 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

Joh 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

Joh 17:11 "I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.

Joh 17:21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, And the Most High God their Redeemer.

1 John 4:2
(Bishops) Hereby shall ye knowe the spirite of God: Euery spirite that confesseth that Iesus Christe is come in the fleshe, is of God:
(ESV) By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
(ESV+) By this you know the Spirit of God: R25every spirit that confesses that R26Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
(Geneva) Hereby shall ye know the Spirit of God, Euery spirit which confesseth that Iesus Christ is come in the flesh, is of God.
(GNB) This is how you will be able to know whether it is God's Spirit: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus Christ came as a human being has the Spirit who comes from God.
(ISV) This is how you can recognize God's Spirit: Every spirit who acknowledges that Jesus the Messiah has become human—and remains so—is from God.
(KJV) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:1 John 4:2
(Bishops) Hereby shall ye knowe the spirite of God: Euery spirite that confesseth that Iesus Christe is come in the fleshe, is of God:
(ESV) By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
(ESV+) By this you know the Spirit of God: R25every spirit that confesses that R26Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
(Geneva) Hereby shall ye know the Spirit of God, Euery spirit which confesseth that Iesus Christ is come in the flesh, is of God.
(GNB) This is how you will be able to know whether it is God's Spirit: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus Christ came as a human being has the Spirit who comes from God.
(ISV) This is how you can recognize God's Spirit: Every spirit who acknowledges that Jesus the Messiah has become human—and remains so—is from God.
(KJV) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Prooftexting does nothing to support your position Keypurr. Because of your paradigm of beliefs, you will continue to remain unable to know the truth.

 

[keypurr]

More words from scripture for you JR

saiah 45:5 – "I am the LORD (YHWH) and there is no other, there is no God besides me."
This is pretty simple. YHWH is the ONLY God. So far, so good.
Exodus 3:15 – "Thus shall you say to the Israelites: The LORD (YHWH), the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, has sent me to you."
Okay, the God of your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the LORD (YHWH).
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob = YHWH.
"Yet for us there is one God, the Father" (Corinthians 8:6).
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 1:3).Does this verse imply that Jesus is the God of Abraham etc.? Of course not! Just read it. The God of Abraham glorified who? Himself? No! He glorified his servant Jesus. This is not difficult. Jesus is obviously not the God of Abraham etc. He is the God of Abraham’s SERVANT. Who is the God of Abraham? YHWH. And YHWH is who? The ONLY God. So Jesus is not God? Of course not. He is God’s anointed.
Acts 10:38 – "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power. He went about doing good and healing all oppressed by the devil, for God was with him."
Who anointed Jesus? It doesn’t say the Father anointed Jesus, it says GOD. You can obviously see that Jesus is not the God that anointed him. If I said, "The king anointed Bob," would you think that it meant that Bob is the king? Of course not. Jesus is the servant whom God anointed to do his will. That is the whole purpose of anointing someone, to give them the wisdom and power that they will need in order to serve God. Does it make sense to you that God would anoint God with God? Let’s look at a Messianic prophecy in the Old Testament.
Isaiah 61:1 – "The spirit of the Lord God is upon me, because the LORD (YHWH) has anointed me."
By reading this verse it is plainly clear that the person who is being anointed is not YHWH. YHWH is anointing this individual. Now watch how Jesus uses this verse to refer to himself. Jesus uses this verse to say that he is the one that the Scripture spoke about. That he is the one whom YHWH has anointed. Who is YHWH by the way? That’s right, the ONLY God.
Luke 4:18-21 – "He (Jesus) unrolled the scroll and found the passage where it was written: ‘The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me,’…He (Jesus) said to them, ‘Today this Scripture passage is fulfilled in your hearing."
Okay now, don’t panic, this is simple. Look at Isaiah 61:1, YHWH anoints someone other than YHWH. Jesus in Luke claims that he is that person whom YHWH has anointed. Next!
1 Cor. 8:6 – "Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom all things are and for whom we exist, and one Lord (This Lord is not a translation of YHWH, it is kyrios i.e. master, king etc.) Jesus Christ."
It doesn’t get any easier than this. Who is the one God? The FATHER! That’s it, period! The Father is the only one who is considered God. Jesus is our Lord (master, king). You will always see that the only one who is referred to as God is the Father. From the passage above, do you honestly read that and come away with the fact that Jesus is the one God? It is obvious that the one Lord is not the one God. Only the Father is God. It never says, "Peace from God the Father and God the Son." Why not? Didn’t the Apostles know that the Son is God? Not even close! Now get comfortable, and look at the following:
1 Cor. 1:3 – "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Cor. 1:2 – "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
Philippians 1:2 – "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
1 Thessalonians 1:1 – "To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
1 Thessalonians 3:13 – "To be blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus."
2 Thessalonians 1:2 – "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Thessalonians 2:16 – "May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who has loved us."
Philippians 4:20 – To our God and Father, glory for ever and ever. Amen."
Collosians 1:2 – "Peace from God our Father."
Ephesians 4:6 – "One God and Father of all."
James1:1 – "James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ."
1 Timothy 1:2 – "Peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord."
2 Timothy 1:2 – "Peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord."
Titus 1:4 – "Peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our savior."
Philemon vv. 3 – "Peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
Galatians 1:3 "Peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
So who is the ONLY one who is referred to as God? That’s right, the Father. There is no way that in these sentences you can come out with the idea that Jesus is God. They always say, "peace from God AND, I repeat, AND the Lord Jesus Christ." They are separate individuals. Jesus Christ is not considered by any stretch of the imagination, "God" by these authors. If I said,
"Peace from John our president and the chief of staff Mike."
"Peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." (for comparison)
Is there anyway that you would read the verse above and come away thinking that Mike, the chief of staff is the president? No way! But wait, it gets even better.
In these next verses, Jesus, who Trinitarians claim is fully God at ALL times, has a God. How
1 Peter 1:3 – "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Cor. 1:3 – "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Cor. 11:31 – "The God and Father of the Lord Jesus knows, he who is blessed forever, that I do not lie."
Revelation 1:6 – "Who has made us into a kingdom, priests for his God and Father."
Ephesians 1:3 – "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Ephesians 1:17 – "That the God of our Lord, the Father of glory."
Wow! The Apostles must have drunk a little too much wine when they wrote this. Don’t they know that Jesus is God? How can God have a God? He can’t. That’s why when I ask this question to pastors the only answer they can give me is that it’s a mystery. Do you know how naïve and gullible that sounds?
These verses above are not profound theological statements. They are for the most part just greetings. No one has ever disputed these verses. Just read them! Then read them again! Then yell them at the top of your lungs because "Yes!" You too have been duped by this false, non-Biblical, contradictory and incomprehensible mumbo jumbo passed on as the Trinity.
The Messiah is supposed to have a God because he needs to be anointed by God in order to do wonders and signs on behalf of God. Let’s look at Micah 5:3 which is a Messianic prophecy:
Micah 5:3 – "He shall stand firm and shepherd his flock by the strength of the LORD (YHWH), in the majestic name of the LORD, HIS GOD."
The Christ will have a God? Yes! Who will it be? Look at the verse above, YHWH. Does Jesus know that he is supposed to have a God? Of course he knows! Look below, these verses are all Jesus speaking:
John 20:17 - "I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."
Matthew 27:46 - "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
Revelation 3:12 - "Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God."
Revelation 3:2 - "For I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God."
So Jesus did know that he has a God. As sure as bees buzz. Jesus really needed his God in order to resurrect.
Hebrews 13:20 – "May the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep by the blood of the eternal covenant."
Acts 5:30 – "The God of our ancestors raised Jesus."
Who raised the great shepherd from the dead? The God of peace, the God of our ancestors (which we covered earlier). The Trinitarian alternative is that God raised himself from the dead. But how can God raise himself if he is dead. Then God was not really dead. For that matter, how can you kill God?
If you buy this Trinitarian explanation, than you deserve to be a Trinitarian.

 

[keypurr]

You replied to Right Divider, not me.

Your right, my mistake. Thank you.

 

[keypurr]

Does Jesus have a God?
OLD TESTAMENT MESSIANIC PROPHESIES

Psalm 89:26-28 – "He (the Messiah) shall say of me. "You are my father, my God, my rock, my savior". And I will make him the firstborn."

Micah 5:3-4 – "He (the Messiah) shall stand firm and shepherd his flock by the strength of the LORD, in the Majestic name of the LORD, his God."

Psalm 22:10-11 – "To you I was committed at birth. From my mother’s womb you are my God."

Deu 18:15 "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your countrymen, you shall listen to him. Deu 18:18 'I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen like you, and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.

Moses taught God was coming in a man, not as a man!

(John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

Jesus heard from who?

Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Joh 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

"God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ… has blessed us… in Christ. He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself” (Eph.1:3-5).

"Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has caused us to be born-again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3).

"To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen" (Jude 25).

Mark 5: 7And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God?

Luke 8: 28When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high?

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.(miracles)

2Jo 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

"God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has blessed us in Christ. He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself" (Eph.1:3-5).

"To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen" (Jude 25).

"Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which god performed through him in your midst" (Acts 2:22).

Paul tell us in 1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through (dia) whom we exist.

1 Corinthians :6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him

NEW TESTAMENT

Jesus Speaking:
John 20:17 – "I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."

Matthew 27:46 – "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"

Revelation 3:12 – "Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of [b my God[/b]. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God."

Revelation 3:2 – "for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God."

Paul:
Ephesians 1:3 – "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Ephesians 1:17 – "I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father..."

2 Corinthians 1:3 – "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

2 Corinthians 11:31 – "The God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ knows, He who is blessed forever, that I do not lie."

Romans 15:6 – "that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Peter:
1 Peter 1:3 – "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

John:
Revelation 1:6 – "To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, who has made us into a kingdom, priests for his God and Father."

"Now this is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ"
(John 17:3).

 

[Bright Raven]

Titus 2:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

2 Peter 1:1 King James Version (KJV)
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Granville Sharp (1735–1813) was an English political reformer, slavery abolitionist, and Greek language scholar known for his contributions regarding the translation of New Testament Greek as it relates to the divinity of Christ. Sharp believed strongly in the deity of Christ and studied the New Testament in its original language to more ably prove Christ’s deity. The Granville Sharp Rule was first noted in 1798 in his book Remarks on the Uses of the Definitive Article in the Greek Text of the New Testament: Containing Many New Proofs of the Divinity of Christ, from Passages Which Are Wrongly Translated in the Common English Version.

The actual rule of Granville Sharp is concerned with the use of definite articles and copulative conjunctions in the New Testament. Copulative conjunctions (also called additive conjunctions) are words that join other words and indicate the relation of additional information. In English, we have one definite article, the; some copulative conjunctions are and, moreover, and also.

The Granville Sharp Rule states, “When the copulative kai connects two nouns of the same case, [viz. nouns (either substantive or adjective, or participles) of personal description, respecting office, dignity, affinity, or connexion, and attributes, properties, or qualities, good or ill], if the article ho, or any of its cases, precedes the first of the said nouns or participles, and is not repeated before the second noun or participle, the latter always relates to the same person that is expressed or described by the first noun or participle” (Remarks on the Uses of the Definitive Article, 3).

In simpler terms, the Granville Sharp Rule says that when two singular common nouns are used to describe a person, and those two nouns are joined by an additive conjunction, and the definite article precedes the first noun but not the second, then both nouns refer to the same person. This principle of semantics holds true in all languages. For example, consider this sentence:

We met with the owner and the curator of the museum, Mr. Holton.

In the preceding sentence, the definite article the is used twice, before both owner and curator. The curator is obviously Mr. Holton, but the owner could be a different person. Did we meet with one or two people? Is Mr. Holton the owner of the museum as well as the curator? The grammatical construction leaves the question open. However, the following sentence removes the ambiguity:

We met with the owner and curator of the museum, Mr. Holton.

In the second example, the definite article the is only used once, before the first noun. This means that the two nouns, joined by and, are both in apposition to the name of the person. In other words, Mr. Holton is both owner and curator. The Granville Sharp Rule makes it clear that we are referring to the same individual.

Two of the New Testament verses associated with the Granville Sharp Rule are Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1. The KJV translates Titus 2:13 as, “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” In the original Greek, the words for “God” and “Savior” are joined by kai, and the definite article ho is only used once, preceding “God”; according to the Granville Sharp Rule, both God and Savior must refer to the same person, namely, Jesus Christ. The NASB 1977 renders the verse more literally: “Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.”

Similarly, 2 Peter 1:1 refers to “our God and Savior Jesus Christ.” Following Granville Sharp’s rule, Jesus Christ is clearly identified as both “God” and “Savior,” another example of the Bible’s teaching of the deity of Christ. The grammatical construction of the Greek makes it plain: definite article + singular noun + copulative conjunction + singular noun = the same person.

Though the Granville Sharp Rule may seem arcane, the concept has an important impact regarding Bible translation and our understanding of the nature of Christ. The New Testament passages where this rule applies highlight the deity of Jesus Christ. He is more than the Messiah; He is God. (From gotquestions.org)

 

[nikolai_42]

Just curious....do the non-Trinitarians here think the Trinitarians are guilty of idolatry for worshipping Jesus (in light of Exodus 20:3, for example). If not, why not?


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Bright Raven,

2 Peter 1:1 King James Version (KJV): Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Similarly, 2 Peter 1:1 refers to “our God and Savior Jesus Christ.” Following Granville Sharp’s rule, Jesus Christ is clearly identified as both “God” and “Savior,” another example of the Bible’s teaching of the deity of Christ. The grammatical construction of the Greek makes it plain: definite article + singular noun + copulative conjunction + singular noun = the same person.

Though the Granville Sharp Rule may seem arcane, the concept has an important impact regarding Bible translation and our understanding of the nature of Christ. The New Testament passages where this rule applies highlight the deity of Jesus Christ. He is more than the Messiah; He is God. (From gotquestions.org)

1 Peter 1:1–4 (KJV): 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
Despite your suggestion of the meaning of 2 Peter 1:1 based upon the Granville Sharp Rule, do you believe that the same writer Peter in 2 Peter 1:1-4 is teaching the Trinity?

Kind regards,
Trevor

 

[betsy123]

More words from scripture for you JR

Isaiah 45:5 – "I am the LORD (YHWH)

and there is no other, there is no God besides me."
This is pretty simple. YHWH is the ONLY God. So far, so good.

Being the only God, isn't the only message in that verse.
He's clarifying two things.
God also says He's the Lord! And, there is no other Lord!

That's quite clear! YHWH says there is no other Lord!

And yet, that title "Lord," is often used by Jesus.
Why would Jesus identify Himself as Lord, if God says there is no other Lord but Him (YHWH)?

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 1:3).

Does this verse imply that Jesus is the God of Abraham etc.?

Yes.
Jesus is also called The Lord.
Jesus is God of Abraham, in human form.

So, when God says, "I am The Lord" - He's saying, "I'm also Jesus Christ!"



Just stop and think for a minute here:

If you believe what you try to promote -
you're actually saying that Jesus oversteps His boundaries and tries to usurp the role of God - embellishing His status!
Your argument makes Jesus into a false teacher. That, He is capable of lying.
Your argument makes Jesus lose credibility!
Since the whole New Testament is about Jesus Christ - that would make the New Testament unreliable!
Surely you don't mean that.
Therefore, the rest of your argument falls flat.



Btw, thanks for this. It's another evidence to be added to Jesus is God Himself.

 

[NWL]

Just curious....do the non-Trinitarians here think the Trinitarians are guilty of idolatry for worshipping Jesus (in light of Exodus 20:3, for example). If not, why not?


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Jesus is the perfect image of God so it certainly isn't idolatry, however, you are robbing the one God, namely the Father (1 Cor 8:4-6) of worship since you're meant to be directing your worship to him and him alone (John 4:24) through Jesus. What you are instead doing is worshiping Jesus on an equal level with the Father which is false worship.

True worshippers will worship the Father, no mention of Jesus - "..[Jesus said] Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks..” (John 4:23)

True worshippers worship the Father alone.

 

[NWL]

God says He's also the Lord! And, there is no other Lord!
That's quite clear! YHWH says there is no other Lord!
And yet, that title "Lord," is often used by Jesus.
Why would Jesus identify Himself as Lord, if God says there is no other Lord but Him (YHWH)

God being called LORD (capitals) in the old testament is different from Jesus calling himself Lord (un-capitalized) in the new testament. "LORD" in the OT refers to the name YHWH/Yahweh, whereas "Lord" in the new testament simply means Lord and does not refer to the divine name YHWH.

Thus your question you ask "Why would Jesus identify Himself as Lord, if God says there is no other Lord but Him" doesn't make any sense since Jesus never identified himself as LORD/YHWH (capitals) but rather simply a lord.
(Isaiah 45:5-7) I am Jehovah, and there is no one else. There is no God except me.

(Isaiah 45:5-7) "..I am YHWH/Yahweh, and there is no one else. There is no God except me.."

(Ephesians 1:3) "..Praised be the God and Father of our Lord(Kyriou) Jesus Christ.."

Kyriou = "Lord" in Greek
YHWH = Gods name in Hebrew, YHWH does not mean "LORD" in any sense.

LORD in capitals should not be in any translations as it confuses people and is not a translation for God name, it was put in place to hide the name of almighty God YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah.

Yes.
Jesus is also called The Lord.
Jesus is God of Abraham, in human form.

So, when God says, "I am The Lord" - He's saying, "I'm also Jesus Christ!"

Btw, thanks for this. It's another evidence to be added to Jesus is God Himself.

See my above. You need to do research of the divine name (LORD/YHWH/Jehovah) and meaning of "LORD" in the old testamnet comapred to the usage of the word "lord" in the new testament.

 

[oatmeal]

Back at ya!
I provided scripture. You deny what it says. Simple as that.

That is your uninformed opinion

 

[oatmeal]

When you say "namely, God Himself", are you referring to God the Father?

The Father is "the God" His son, Jesus, the anointed one, (anointed by God, Acts 10:38, 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.)is not God nor is he "God the Son", Jesus is the son of God, who in relationship to his only begotten son, the adopted sons of the nation of Israel and the born again sons of this age of grace is rightfully called Father.

 

[MennoSota]

That is your uninformed opinion

That is the Bibles statement. Accept it or reject it. Your eternity is on the line.

 

[oatmeal]

You choose to try to uphold your false, anti-Scriptural presupposition of unitarianism over caring about understanding what Scripture says. Thus, you're a hypocrite.

What I find so sad is that there is no scripture, genuine scripture, that aupports the pagan ideology of the true God being triune.

If you have been on this site for any length of time you have been shown that all your so called evidence is been twisted adulterated or falsified

That is not my problem. When Jesus Christ returns and you see a human, not God, that will be quite a shock to you

God is everywhere present, God does not have to come back for He is already here, Jesus is at the right hand of the throne of God, thus Jesus is not here.

That difference alone makes clear that God alone is God and Jesus, His son, is not God

 

[betsy123]

God being called LORD (capitals) in the old testament is different from Jesus calling himself Lord (un-capitalized) in the new testament. "LORD" in the OT refers to the name YHWH/Yahweh, whereas "Lord" in the new testament simply means Lord and does not refer to the divine name YHWH.



LORD in capitals should not be in any translations as it confuses people and is not a translation for God name, it was put in place to hide the name of almighty God YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah.



See my above. You need to do research of the divine name (LORD/YHWH/Jehovah) and meaning of "LORD" in the old testamnet comapred to the usage of the word "lord" in the new testament.

Baloney!
As far as I know, Isaiah is from the Old Testament!

No such thing as difference between LORD and Lord!

Look at all the "Lord" on this verse below - are they all capitalized? Actually, none of them are!


Furthermore - God also says He is the ONLY SAVIOR!
Well? Isn't "Savior" also the name of Jesus?


Isaiah 45

The Lord, the Only Savior

18 For thus says the Lord,
Who created the heavens,
Who is God,
Who formed the earth and made it,
Who has established it,
Who did not create it in vain,
Who formed it to be inhabited:
“I am the Lord, and there is no other.

21 Tell and bring forth your case;
Yes, let them take counsel together.
Who has declared this from ancient time?
Who has told it from that time?
Have not I, the Lord?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A just God and a Savior;
There is none besides Me.


You and others who don't believe God and Jesus are One and the Same - you folks make Jesus look bad. Like, He's a wannabe - equating Himself with God! Really.

 

[susanblange]

Jesus is Satan's counterfeit messiah, Lucifer. The name means "morning star" and that is who Jesus claims to be. Revelation 22:16. Jesus is coming back, he's been kicked out of Heaven and reincarnated. Isaiah 14:12. He will be the leader of the "sons of darkness". He died "the deaths of the uncircumcised". Ezekiel 28:10. This time he will die by bursting into flames. Ezekiel 28:18-19.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Jesus is Satan's counterfeit messiah, Lucifer. The name means "morning star" and that is who Jesus claims to be. Revelation 22:16. Jesus is coming back, he's been kicked out of Heaven and reincarnated. Isaiah 14:12. He will be the leader of the "sons of darkness". He died "the deaths of the uncircumcised". Ezekiel 28:10. This time he will die by bursting into flames. Ezekiel 28:18-19.

Stop with the blasphemy.

You're on a mainline Christian forum, and the Trinity is a mainline Christian belief.

You are welcome to discuss your beliefs, but making blatant blasphemous assertions such as this will result in you being banned.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings betsy123,

No such thing as difference between LORD and Lord!
You and others who don't believe God and Jesus are One and the Same - you folks make Jesus look bad.

I suggest that you have a brief consideration of Psalm 110:1 and the way it is quoted and expounded in the NT. Even the KJV distinguishes between “LORD” Hebrew word Yahweh and “Lord” Hebrew word Adon in Psalm 110:1 by printing the first in capitals and the second as capital and lower case.
Psalm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

I will give one significant example, but there are many others.
Acts 2:29–36 (KJV): 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
I doubt that many Trinitarians expositors will agree with your bold statements concerning “LORD” and “Lord”, but from my experience I have not seen a clear explanation by a Trinitarian concerning Psalm 110:1.

Kind regards,
Trevor

 

[betsy123]

Greetings betsy123, I suggest that you have a brief consideration of Psalm 110:1 and the way it is quoted and expounded in the NT. Even the KJV distinguishes between “LORD” Hebrew word Yahweh and “Lord” Hebrew word Adon in Psalm 110:1 by printing the first in capitals and the second as capital and lower case.
Psalm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

I will give one significant example, but there are many others.
Acts 2:29–36 (KJV): 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Kind regards,
Trevor

It isn't only about believing that God and Jesus are One and the Same.
For God's own reason, it is important for us too, to see Jesus (being human), as the Son of God. That distinction is also being made clear. Why both? Who can really explain?
We don't know the mind of God.

I doubt that many Trinitarians expositors will agree with your bold statements concerning “LORD” and “Lord”, but from my experience I have not seen a clear explanation by a Trinitarian concerning Psalm 110:1.

In Psalm 110:1, David speaks about David's God (LORD) and David's Jewish Messiah (Christ),
his Lord.
There is that distinction of the human Messiah.
The Messiah is called the "Son of David" (physically descended from his line), but clearly much more than just a son. The Messiah is also David's Lord.
Thus, the difference between LORD and Lord.
In this verse, David is talking about GOD, and the human Messiah (his Lord).

Btw, that point is also emphasized in your Acts 2 verse above.
"..... that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh,"


There is a distinction. God (LORD), and the human Messiah (David's Lord).

What does it mean that “the Lord said to my Lord”?

The clause the LORD says to my Lord contains two different Hebrew words for “lord” in the original. The first word is Yahweh, the Hebrew covenant name for God. The second is adoni, meaning “lord” or “master.” So, in Psalm 110:1, David writes this: “Yahweh says to my Adoni. . . .” To better understand Jesus’ use of Psalm 110:1, we’ll look at the identity of each “Lord” separately.

The first “Lord” in “the LORD says to my Lord” is the eternal God of the universe, the Great I AM who revealed Himself to Moses in Exodus 3. This self-existent, omnipotent God speaks in Psalm 110 to someone else who is also David’s “Lord.”

The second “Lord” in “the LORD says to my Lord” is the Messiah, or the Christ.

In Matthew 22:44, Jesus unmistakably identifies the second “Lord” of Psalm 110:1 as the Messiah, and the Pharisees all agree that, yes, David was speaking of the Messiah. When David wrote, “The LORD says to my Lord,” he distinctly said that the Messiah (or the Christ) was his lord and master—his Adoni.

A common title for the Messiah in Jesus’ day was “Son of David,” based on the fact that the Messiah would be the descendant of David who would inherit the throne and fulfill the Davidic Covenant (see 2 Samuel 7).

https://www.gotquestions.org/Lord-said-to-my-Lord.html



I'm curious:
How would a non-Trinitarian tackle the numerous times Jesus had used the very same title given to God, and vice versa?

Please refer to the thread in Exclusively Theology section - Jesus is God Himself.

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?133025-JESUS-IS-GOD-HIMSELF


Like the very last entry to that thread - can you explain this?


The following are MONOTHEISTIC Statement(s) given by GOD(Old Testament) and JESUS (New Testament), showing that they are One and The Same..


It's about THE SHEPHERD.

Ezekiel 34
God, the True Shepherd

John 10
Jesus the True Shepherd


Both are claiming the title TRUE Shepherd. There can only be one true Shepherd.

If they're not One and the Same - one of them has got to be wrong - and, that
poses a huge problem. It directly hits the credibility of the Scriptures.
How can we believe the Bible?

Please, give your view on this.