Is God's love unconditional?

[oatmeal]

Along the lines of my previous thread, there are expressions that we seem to accept as true, but can they genuinely be supported by scripture?

One of the popular, maybe mainstream thoughts, is that God's love is unconditional.

If that were true, then we would expect to see the results of God's love universally, without any exceptions.

Is this universality clearly evident?

Are all men saved? Why not?

Have all men come to the knowledge of the truth? Why not?

I Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Clearly, salvation and the knowledge of the truth is not universal.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Many use John 3:16 to support this idea of unconditional love.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

They read "God so loved" as if "so" expresses magnitude. But the Greek word means "in this manner" or "how", not magnitude.

Thus it could read, "God, in this manner, loved the world. "

If we finish reading the verse, we find that we will not perish, but have everlasting life, depending on if we "believeth on him". That is a condition.


What scriptures do you have to discuss on this topic?

 

[Tambora]

Unconditional to me means it is not conditioned upon your status, ie. ethnicity, rank, gender, etc. (neither Jew or gentile, slave or free, male or female, etc.).
For the Lord also loves those that are not believers (the lost) and seeks to bring them unto Himself.

Luke 15
(4) "What man of you, having a hundred sheep and losing one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the grassland and go after the one that was lost until he finds it?
(5) And when he has found it, he places it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
(6) And when he returns to his home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost!'
(7) I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.

 

[Gary K]

Along the lines of my previous thread, there are expressions that we seem to accept as true, but can they genuinely be supported by scripture?

One of the popular, maybe mainstream thoughts, is that God's love is unconditional.

If that were true, then we would expect to see the results of God's love universally, without any exceptions.

Is this universality clearly evident?

Are all men saved? Why not?

Have all men come to the knowledge of the truth? Why not?

I Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Clearly, salvation and the knowledge of the truth is not universal.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Many use John 3:16 to support this idea of unconditional love.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

They read "God so loved" as if "so" expresses magnitude. But the Greek word means "in this manner" or "how", not magnitude.

Thus it could read, "God, in this manner, loved the world. "

If we finish reading the verse, we find that we will not perish, but have everlasting life, depending on if we "believeth on him". That is a condition.


What scriptures do you have to discuss on this topic?

It depends on what definition a person uses of unconditional.

Adjective: unconditional ,ún-kun'di-shu-nul

1. Not modified or restricted by reservations
   - categoric, categorical, flat
   
2. Not contingent; not determined or influenced by someone or something else
   
3. Not conditional
   "unconditional surrender";
   - unconditioned

See also: blunt, brute, crude, independent, stark, unqualified, vested

If a person uses the first meaning of the word no. If we use the second meaning of the word, yes.

God's love for us is not predicated on anyone or anything else. He gives us all the same opportunity for salvation. It's up to us whether or not we choose to accept His offer. We have to be willing to accept His conditions and His conditions are not unreasonable for He is not unjust.

Deuteronomy 32: 3 Because I will publish the name of the Lord: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Psalm 89: 14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.

Proverbs 21: 3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice.

Isaiah 45: 21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Along the lines of my previous thread, there are expressions that we seem to accept as true, but can they genuinely be supported by scripture?

One of the popular, maybe mainstream thoughts, is that God's love is unconditional.

If that were true, then we would expect to see the results of God's love universally, without any exceptions.

Love is the commitment to the good of someone. God is committed to the good of all men, unconditionally.

Is this universality clearly evident?

Yes.

Are all men saved? Why not?

No, because not all men have turned back to God.

Have all men come to the knowledge of the truth? Why not?

No, because most have covered their eyes and ears, and have refused to see and to listen to it.

I Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

"Will" here means "desire."

God DESIRES for all men to be saved. But it doesn't mean that it will happen.

But the one thing that WILL happen, is that all who do not acknowledge Him now will be forced to acknowledge Him as Lord God before they are cast into the Lake of Fire to be separated from Him for the rest of eternity.

Clearly, salvation and the knowledge of the truth is not universal.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Many use John 3:16 to support this idea of unconditional love.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

They read "God so loved" as if "so" expresses magnitude. But the Greek word means "in this manner" or "how", not magnitude.

Thus it could read, "God, in this manner, loved the world. "

If we finish reading the verse, we find that we will not perish, but have everlasting life, depending on if we "believeth on him". That is a condition.

What scriptures do you have to discuss on this topic?

 

[oatmeal]

Unconditional to me means it is not conditioned upon your status, ie. ethnicity, rank, gender, etc. (neither Jew or gentile, slave or free, male or female, etc.).
For the Lord also loves those that are not believers (the lost) and seeks to bring them unto Himself.

Luke 15
(4) "What man of you, having a hundred sheep and losing one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the grassland and go after the one that was lost until he finds it?
(5) And when he has found it, he places it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
(6) And when he returns to his home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost!'
(7) I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.

Thank you. I had not thought of it in that way. To me that is a reasonable viewpoint. You point out that God is not a respector of persons. That is true. God states that clearly. Thank you.

 

[oatmeal]

It depends on what definition a person uses of unconditional.

Adjective: unconditional ,ún-kun'di-shu-nul

1. Not modified or restricted by reservations
   - categoric, categorical, flat
2. Not contingent; not determined or influenced by someone or something else
3. Not conditional
   "unconditional surrender";
   - unconditioned

See also: blunt, brute, crude, independent, stark, unqualified, vested

If a person uses the first meaning of the word no. If we use the second meaning of the word, yes.

God's love for us is not predicated on anyone or anything else. He gives us all the same opportunity for salvation. It's up to us whether or not we choose to accept His offer. We have to be willing to accept His conditions and His conditions are not unreasonable for He is not unjust.

Deuteronomy 32: 3 Because I will publish the name of the Lord: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Psalm 89: 14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.

Proverbs 21: 3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice.

Isaiah 45: 21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Thank you, I appreciate your input and the information you provided

 

[oatmeal]

Love is the commitment to the good of someone. God is committed to the good of all men, unconditionally.



Yes.



No, because not all men have turned back to God.



No, because most have covered their eyes and ears, and have refused to see and to listen to it.



"Will" here means "desire."

God DESIRES for all men to be saved. But it doesn't mean that it will happen.

But the one thing that WILL happen, is that all who do not acknowledge Him now will be forced to acknowledge Him as Lord God before they are cast into the Lake of Fire to be separated from Him for the rest of eternity.

Seems you and I are on the same page. Yes, God is willing and able to his goodness because of His love to all, but not all are willing recipients of God's goodness.

 

[fzappa13]

It is interesting that the majority of those who have a near death experience report feeling an unconditional love when in the presence of God. I think that is probably the only way to describe being in the presence of someone who IS love as John reported. While in the flesh we occasionally exhibit love but we can't really get our heads wrapped around the idea that love is not something you do. It is, in it's fullest manifestation, something you are. If you can ever get there you have solved the riddle that is life.

Be the love you seek.

 

[JudgeRightly]

those who have a near death experience . . .when in the presence of God.

They're called "near death" because they didn't actually die.

And because they didn't actually die, they were never in the presence of God.

.You've been bamboozled, if you believe them when they say they've been in His presence.

If they had ACTUALLY died, if they had actually met God or been in His presence, they wouldn't be around to tell you about their experience.

I think that is probably the only way to describe being in the presence of someone who IS love as John reported. While in the flesh we occasionally exhibit love but we can't really get our heads wrapped around the idea that love is not something you do. It is, in it's fullest manifestation, something you are. If you can ever get there you have solved the riddle that is life.

Be the love you seek.

Supra, re: "love is..."

 

[oatmeal]

It is interesting that the majority of those who have a near death experience report feeling an unconditional love when in the presence of God. I think that is probably the only way to describe being in the presence of someone who IS love as John reported. While in the flesh we occasionally exhibit love but we can't really get our heads wrapped around the idea that love is not something you do. It is, in it's fullest manifestation, something you are. If you can ever get there you have solved the riddle that is life.

Be the love you see

Although feelings are real and we have them because God gave us that capacity. Feelings are not a guarantee of truth. Feelings are not truth, truth is truth.

God's word is truth.

Jhn 17:17

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

 

[fzappa13]

Although feelings are real and we have them because God gave us that capacity. Feelings are not a guarantee of truth. Feelings are not truth, truth is truth.

God's word is truth.

Jhn 17:17

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

As Paul said, we see now as through a glass darkly. That said, our experience here is no doubt for a purpose. I would suggest that to summarily discount the experience of others is to miss what they have to offer. Holding our thoughts and experiences up to the light of scripture is indeed wise. John said God is love and I find no reason to doubt anyone who's experience has born that out.

 

[Bright Raven]

Yes! Prove that it is not.

 

[oatmeal]

As Paul said, we see now as through a glass darkly. That said, our experience here is no doubt for a purpose. I would suggest that to summarily discount the experience of others is to miss what they have to offer. Holding our thoughts and experiences up to the light of scripture is indeed wise. John said God is love and I find no reason to doubt anyone who's experience has born that out.

Yes, that is the approach and method we should take.

 

[Lon]

They're called "near death" because they didn't actually die.

And because they didn't actually die, they were never in the presence of God.

.You've been bamboozled, if you believe them when they say they've been in His presence.

If they had ACTUALLY died, if they had actually met God or been in His presence, they wouldn't be around to tell you about their experience.



Supra, re: "love is..."

Haven't thought about it much, but seems legit "appointed 'once' to die" came to mind reading your response. Any other scriptures in mind on this one? (off topic so ignore if appropriate)

 

[marke]

Unconditional to me means it is not conditioned upon your status, ie. ethnicity, rank, gender, etc. (neither Jew or gentile, slave or free, male or female, etc.).
For the Lord also loves those that are not believers (the lost) and seeks to bring them unto Himself.

Luke 15
(4) "What man of you, having a hundred sheep and losing one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the grassland and go after the one that was lost until he finds it?
(5) And when he has found it, he places it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
(6) And when he returns to his home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost!'
(7) I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.

Salvation is not guaranteed to all which means there are reasons some will be saved and reasons some will not be saved. In that sense we call salvation conditional.

Luke 13:24
Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

 

[Bright Raven]

Salvation is not guaranteed to all which means there are reasons some will be saved and reasons some will not be saved. In that sense we call salvation conditional.

Luke 13:24
Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

The only reason for not being saved is rejection of Jesus Christ,

 

[Derf]

The only reason for not being saved is rejection of Jesus Christ,

Does that mean those who never hear the gospel are saved, because they never rejected Christ?

 

[marke]

Does that mean those who never hear the gospel are saved, because they never rejected Christ?

The Bible indicates that there is not a living soul who does not get enlightment from the Holy Ghost as proof that God is not willing that any should perish.

 

[Derf]

The Bible indicates that there is not a living soul who does not get enlightment from the Holy Ghost as proof that God is not willing that any should perish.

But that makes it seem like there are either some who don't hear the gospel, but are saved anyway, or that there is no such thing as an unreached person.

 

[glorydaz]

The only reason for not being saved is rejection of Jesus Christ,

Indeed, AND His work on the cross.