Is God Truly All Powerful?

[Lighthouse]

Good greif man, I didn't ask for a recital. And no, frankly, I don't think it sounded about right at all. Many of the right words are there but nothing of the substance, the heart of it. This might as well have been a recital of the third paragraph of the 7th chapter from 'War and Peace'. Memorization or intellectual agreement is not what makes a Christian.

Let me ask again in a different way and maybe we can make better progress.

Do you now or have you ever believed....

• that God created the universe and everything in it?
  
• that this same creator became a man like one of us yet without sin?
  
• that Jesus is that man?
  
• that you are an evil sinner and deserve to be punished by God for your sin?
  
• that Jesus suffered and died in order to take the punishment you deserve upon Himself?
  
• that God raised Jesus from the dead?

Any person who answers "no" to any one of these questions, as asked, IS NOT A CHRISTIAN and is not saved and never was, period.

On the other hand, if you ever did believe these things and truly accepted what Jesus did at Calvary as payment for your own sin, then not only were you saved and given eternal life but you are saved and have eternal life.

Which group are you in?

Resting in Him,
Clete

I have to disagree with you here, Clete.

Belief is not faith. And Cal had no faith. And I am about to show that.

 

[Caledvwlch]

I have to disagree with you here, Clete.

Belief is not faith. And Cal had no faith. And I am about to show that.

This is going to be AWESOME.

 

[godrulz]

I have to disagree with you here, Clete.

Belief is not faith. And Cal had no faith. And I am about to show that.

You must define belief vs faith. Both words are used prominently in the NT in a positive way. Belief can also mean mere head knowledge (devil). The context determines the use, not just the word by itself.

e.g. John 3:16 uses 'believe' not 'faith' as necessary for salvation.

Cal may have had mere intellectual belief. This falls short of the full meaning of faith. Belief is a part of saving faith, but not the only necessary component (remember the Latin theologians: notitia, assensus, and fiducia).

 

[Lighthouse]

Um... I'm sure we've been over this before, but I like Granite's take: Since I don't believe anybody can have a relationship with Christ, then no, I didn't.

Exactly.

You never had a relationship with Christ. You were never in Christ, so, by the Biblical definition, you were never a Christian.

Thank you.

:bow:

 

[Caledvwlch]

:bow:

I appreciate the gesture.

 

[Lighthouse]

You must define belief vs faith. Both words are used prominently in the NT in a positive way. Belief can also mean mere head knowledge (devil). The context determines the use, not just the word by itself.

e.g. John 3:16 uses 'believe' not 'faith' as necessary for salvation.

Cal may have had mere intellectual belief. This falls short of the full meaning of faith. Belief is a part of saving faith, but not the only necessary component (remember the Latin theologians: notitia, assensus, and fiducia).

You know what I meant, and Clete will when he reads it. I was going to post that last night, but I got disconnected, and had to be somewhere, so I didn't have time to reconnect and get it done.

 

[Lighthouse]

I appreciate the gesture.

Do you agree with what I said? That according to the Biblical definition of Christian, you never were one?

 

[Caledvwlch]

Do you agree with what I said? That according to the Biblical definition of Christian, you never were one?

Sure. According to some interpretations of the Biblical definition, I never was a Christian, because God's saving grace couldn't possibly be inneffectual, therefore I must not have been saved to begin with. To this I say... EFF that. I was a Christian with all the warm and fuzzies you're supposed to have.

 

[God_Is_Truth]

Sure. According to some interpretations of the Biblical definition, I never was a Christian, because God's saving grace couldn't possibly be inneffectual, therefore I must not have been saved to begin with. To this I say... EFF that. I was a Christian with all the warm and fuzzies you're supposed to have.

why did you leave?

 

[Caledvwlch]

why did you leave?

Oy... it's a long story, and hardly on topic.

 

[God_Is_Truth]

Oy... it's a long story, and hardly on topic.

PM?

 

[Caledvwlch]

PM?

Thanks, but I really don't feel like going over it right now. I'm sure there'll be plenty of opportunities in the future, as long as neither one of us gets banned.

 

[Lighthouse]

Sure. According to some interpretations of the Biblical definition, I never was a Christian, because God's saving grace couldn't possibly be inneffectual, therefore I must not have been saved to begin with. To this I say... EFF that. I was a Christian with all the warm and fuzzies you're supposed to have.

When did I say that His grace was ineffectual? His grace is effectual for all eternity, once it is applied. But it cannot be applied wihtout faith in Christ, because that is the stipulation God placed. You say that there is no Christ, and by that token you never had faith in Him. Therefore His grace was never applied to you. You were never a Christian.

 

[Caledvwlch]

When did I say that His grace was ineffectual? His grace is effectual for all eternity, once it is applied. But it cannot be applied wihtout faith in Christ, because that is the stipulation God placed. You say that there is no Christ, and by that token you never had faith in Him. Therefore His grace was never applied to you. You were never a Christian.

That actually makes me feel... good. :sheep:

 

[Aimiel]

Balderdash! It's just fun to say.

Jabberwocky. Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. So are those. :cheers:

 

[Aimiel]

This could be the stupidest post of all time! :darwinsm:

No, is. Indeed, The Gospel, The Good News that God will give men eternal life. 'Not very good news' indeed!!! That's The Best News there has ever been. :up:

 

[Clete]

I have to disagree with you here, Clete.

Belief is not faith. And Cal had no faith. And I am about to show that.

Um, when were you planning on showing it?

I don't believe you'll be able to without getting into legalism but I'm all ears.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[godrulz]

Sure. According to some interpretations of the Biblical definition, I never was a Christian, because God's saving grace couldn't possibly be inneffectual, therefore I must not have been saved to begin with. To this I say... EFF that. I was a Christian with all the warm and fuzzies you're supposed to have.

This either assumes Calvinism's TULIP or perhaps grace really is resistible. Grace is effectual for those who come in repentant faith. Those who reject Christ experience justice, not mercy or grace.

 

[godrulz]

When did I say that His grace was ineffectual? His grace is effectual for all eternity, once it is applied. But it cannot be applied wihtout faith in Christ, because that is the stipulation God placed. You say that there is no Christ, and by that token you never had faith in Him. Therefore His grace was never applied to you. You were never a Christian.

This is one possibility, but not the only possibility.

 

[Agape4Robin]

This is one possibility, but not the only possibility.

What is the other possibility? :think: