musterion
Well-known member
You won't get an answer - not an honest one. The passive-aggressive doublespeak the Bee just tried to lay on you is the best she can do.
Is constant confession needed for forgiveness?
- Thread starter jzeidler
- Start date
You won't get an answer - not an honest one. The passive-aggressive doublespeak the Bee just tried to lay on you is the best she can do.
-what happened to the calvinists?
-it is a simple question
-do calvinists say the Our Father?
-it is a simple question
-do calvinists say the Our Father?
Brother Ducky
New member
Can't speak for all Calvinists, but the liturgy of the RCA states under the head of intersession:
"The intercessions shall conclude with the Lord’s Prayer."
So the answer to the question is at least some do.
Hi Heir, I really like your we-are-already-saved attitude and yes I do believe our trespasses are forgiven, but I still think it is good to apologize for making mistakes and for acknowledging the mistakes one is making. How does one learn if one doesn't acknowledge the mistakes one is making? What do you think Heir? Is constant confession required to receive forgiveness, or are we already forgiven such that our confessions are not even necessary? I am cautious to think that way though because one can become arrogant in believing they are forgiven no matter what and therefore can do no wrong, no?
You mean the Lord's Prayer?
Yes. We especially like the 'thy will be done'. We take that part seriously
lain:What does that have to do with anything?
Right Divider
Body part
So just once then?
Brother Ducky
New member
An honest answer was given a few posts back. It might be incorrect, but that has yet to be demonstrated.
Right Divider
Body part
What about the conditional forgiveness part?You mean the Lord's Prayer?
Yes. We especially like the 'thy will be done'. We take that part seriously
What does that have to do with anything?
^
Oh great, I made one of the mad Madists mad. Now they're circling around like vultures
Go fix your decoder ring. It's broken.
What is with the obsession with this? A person needing to 'know' they are saved..
The problem here is very simple- when a person is going around so arrogantly sure of their salvation, they aren't doing any more than tempting the Lord.
Salvation is something that one works out with 'fear and trembling'. When you have millions of Christians walking around in their frankly mediocre spirit being so smug about their salvation, there is a problem.
jzeidler
New member
^
Oh great, I made one of the mad Madists mad. Now they're circling around like vultures
Go fix your decoder ring. It's broken.
What is with the obsession with this? A person needing to 'know' they are saved..
The problem here is very simple- when a person is going around so arrogantly sure of their salvation, they aren't doing any more than tempting the Lord.
Salvation is something that one works out with 'fear and trembling'. When you have millions of Christians walking around in their frankly mediocre spirit being so smug about their salvation, there is a problem.
Look at what the verse says as to why there is "fear and trembling" it's cause you're not doing the work, it's God doing the work through you.
musterion
Well-known member
And there it is. Back in the 1600s he'd have used the term presumption, which I believe Calvin - Catholic at heart that he was - was fond of using.
heir
TOL Subscriber
It's not an attitude, but a reality! 1 Corinthians 15:2 KJV, 1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV, Ephesians 2:5 KJV, Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV, Titus 3:5 KJV
You posted verses that show a conditional forgiveness because they are written to the lost sheep of the house of Israel Matthew 10:5-6 KJV, 15:24 KJV (not us) who will not have their sins blotted out until the times of refreshing that shall come from the presence of the Lord (second coming) Acts 3:19-21 KJV) whereas we in the Body look back having "now received the atonement (Romans 5:11 KJV).
Confession for Israel had nothing to do with "learning", but identification with the Lord Jesus Christ! (Matthew 3:6 KJV)
We are already forgiven all trespasses (Colossians 2:13 KJV). Why would any of us want to ask for something we already have as if we don't have it? It's unbelief! Don't you think God tires of hearing you ask for something that He said is a done deal?
Our being forgiven has/had nothing to do with what we have done, but by the grace and mercy of God 2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV, Ephesians 1:6-9 KJV, Colossians 1:14 KJV, Colossians 2:13 KJV
Being sure of salvation is not arrogance it is confidence in the Lord's faith and finished work (Ephesians 3:12 KJV). I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day (2 Timothy 1:12 KJV). And if you have trusted the Lord believing the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) so should you (Romans 8:35-39 KJV, Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV)!
Calvin was not 'Catholic at heart'.
Some people are just so heretical that any vestige of archaic Christianity is 'Catholic'.
The real reason people are against Calvinism, even if it isn't fully realized, is because the doctrine omits any person's condemning of a Calvinist. They were just predestined, you see
Sorry that the real Gospel expels the nonsense of those such as on this thread :idunno:
Cool story.
You know who else was a baptized Catholic?
EVERYBODY
When you publicly call the Pope the son of perdition and kick every Catholic out of your city, there is no need for such a testimony- it speaks for itself.
Calvin is a co-champion of the Reformation. Why do you think it's called REFORMED doctrine..
I don't understand you all sometimes :freak:
True Heir we are saved already. Still how can you be certain of who the lost sheep are and who are in the Body, as you put it? Is it not true that only God can know those who are lost and those who are found? Also why is the second coming necessary if we are all already saved, if that reality is in the here and now? (I do believe we are saved in the past, present, and future tense. I am simply asking the questions because I am interested in your answers and any insight you can provide.)
Also how did Israel in the OT identify with Christ if people only met Christ in the NT? Sorry I did not quite understand this argument concerning learning with regards to confession.
I must say I don't believe that an all powerful God tires at all and instead I believe that He has the patience and understanding to hear all and every request no matter how small or insignificant they may be. Remember Christ said not to keep the Children from Him, so why then when asking for forgiveness would God tire of hearing from His children? Is it really unbelief to request something you already have? For example, we know we have God's Love, we believe this, and yet we continue to ask God for more of His Love, because we believe, because we have learnt to appreciate Him and His Love...how is this unbelief? Also God is Love, and Love enjoys fellowship and sharing. I also remember reading a passage in the Bible, I forget now the exact passage, but it spoke about how when we ask God for something it pleases Him, when we ask Him for help, when we turn to Him, we are showing that we do believe in Him, we are putting our trust in Him, we are saying I know you have saved me, and having done so I ask for you to remove any fear or doubt and in doing so save me once again.
True we are forgiven by His Grace and Mercy, but I believe we are required to show some form of humility on our part, in the end it is about our personal relationship with God. That said, I don't believe any one person can judge another's heart or say that they do or do not believe in God. I believe only God knows the hearts of His children and has the right to judge this. A person may perhaps point out where another might work to deepen their faith but I don't think it right for that person to state outright that another is a believer or not simply because that other person does not think or believe the same way they do. No?
Looking forward to hear more of your thoughts on the subject Heir.
musterion
Well-known member
That speaks only to what he didn't believe any longer.
That's nice.
So when you find Calvin's testimony of when he heard and believed the Gospel of grace, which Rome has never preached and in fact officially anathematized at Trent, you let me know.
There's a good reason for that.
Right Divider
Body part
I'm never mad here, just pointing out your problem with understand these things.Oh great, I made one of the mad Madists mad. Now they're circling around like vultures
You said confession is necessary and not needed constantly. So what is it?
Some typical childishness. Good job!
Basing your opinion on a formality is stupid.
Tells me all I need to know about you all.
Because you all are detached from reality and reason :idunno:
heir
TOL Subscriber
I am, but are you? And if so, how?
There is no Israel of God today. They fell, diminsihed and were cast away for a reason and a season. God is not dealing with a nation, but the filling up of Christ's Body which is the church (Ephesians 1:22-23 KJV).
Again, not talking about Israel as they are Hosea 1:9 KJV, The Lord knoweth them that are His (2 Timothy 2:19 KJV).
Israel's salvation is future, for that is God's covenant unto them, when He shall take away their sins (Romans 11:26-27 KJV, Acts 3:19-21 KJV, Hebrews 8:8-12 KJV, Hebrews 10:17 KJV ).