Is Calvinism Wrong?

[Rosenritter]

Rosenritter isn't as smart as she/he thinks he/she isn't.

If you were really smart you could even deduce gender from the public profile info.

 

[glorydaz]

Was this Jesus teaching grace?

Mat 6:14-15 KJV For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: (15) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.​

YES!

In the parable of the servant who owed ten thousand talents, did he deserve (earn) the right to have his debt forgiven? Did he repay this debt either through gathered money, or the sale of his family into slavery? Was this forgiveness of debt earned through the law, or forgiven of grace?

Spoiler

Matthew 18:23-35 KJV
(23) Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
(24) And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
(25) But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
(26) The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
(27) Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
(28) But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
(29) And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
(30) And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
(31) So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
(32) Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
(33) Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
(34) And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
(35) So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

The answer is grace.

As for the parable, the lesson is that there are still conditions upon this undeserved pardon. Grace is unearned, but it is not unconditional.

I just admitted that I didn't know about the blue arrow trick until recently. So when someone says they do not know the original question within two hops it sounds like they just didn't know the trick yet. It's called being helpful.

No, that's not what happened at all. He didn't say any such thing. And one would have to click way more than twice to find where this started. Then, to top it off, your "spoiler" quote only confirmed what Right Divider said. That's why he said, "What are you talking about?"

Ah... but you were being funny and poking fun at yourself there when you were playing the grown-up, weren't you?

Nope I was being totally serious. Should I repeat it or do you think you can find your way back following the blue arrows?

Jesus said in order to be forgiven, we had to forgive others. That is not grace. Maybe you need to read the parable again.

 

[glorydaz]

If you were really smart you could even deduce gender from the public profile info.

What information would that be? I see nothing that speaks of your gender?

 

[glorydaz]

Glory, sometimes one person starts to reply and the first person starts editing their post. Maybe that happened? But I think with that I read something very different than what he meant, posted, realized that likely wasn't what he meant at all, and was trying to undo the post very quickly. I was being very quick with the delete keys.

I don't know what that would be "deceptive" about, but I was trying to prevent a misunderstanding.

That isn't how it works. My quote shouldn't have been in there at all.

Do you know what the little rectangle with the + sign means (down on the right by the "Reply with Quote") is for?

 

[Rosenritter]

What information would that be? I see nothing that speaks of your gender?

If one couldn't deduce by the profile picture of "L" from "Death Note" then the text about being a husband and father might be a clue. I'm sure the real Columbo would be able to take it from here.

http://theologyonline.com/member.php?18255-Rosenritter&tab=aboutme

About Rosenritter

Location: The land of ice and snow.
Occupation: Luke 19:13 KJV
Religious Affiliation: Christian
Slogan or motto: 1 Peter 3:15-16 KJV
(15) But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
A little bit more about me: The husband of one wife; the father of one child.
Are you a robot?: No

 

[Rosenritter]

Obsolete!

 

[Rosenritter]

Jesus said in order to be forgiven, we had to forgive others. That is not grace. Maybe you need to read the parable again.

Glory, I have quoted this text multiple times already. He said that we who are already forgiven shall have that forgiveness revoked if we will not do likewise. Remind yourself of the order of events:

1) The servant owes an unpayable debt
2) The servant is forgiven because he begs forgiveness
3) The servant then has no mercy upon one who owes a tiny debt against him
4) The servant has his mercy revoked

The servant in the parable did nothing that earned the forgiveness. That's the definition of grace. The lesson that is learned is that grace is not bestowed unconditionally. Grace is unearned and undeserved, but not unconditional. If "Dispensationalism" teaches that grace is unconditional then it is saying to ignore the direct words of Jesus, even the words that he gave us to interpret this parable.

This is also referred to as "done despite unto the Spirit of grace."

Hebrews 10:26-29 KJV
(26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Glory, assuming that you accept John 3:16, you already agree that grace is conditional. Unconditional grace would be Universalism such as Gregory and Fine Linen are preaching on their special forum.

 

[Rosenritter]

That isn't how it works. My quote shouldn't have been in there at all.

Do you know what the little rectangle with the + sign means (down on the right by the "Reply with Quote") is for?

No, I don't. I just tried it now and it made a blue check mark but didn't seem to do anything. Nothing on a tool-tip either. Seriously, what does it do?

Wait, I think I got it. Thanks. That was a lot easier than how I was getting that effect before.

 

[TestedandTried]

I do not see that we differ...explain where we differ...I'm not a Calvinist, I'm conservative Lutheran. I believe we may be saying the same thing.

 

[TestedandTried]

Yes, I believe we are predestined to salvation...but I am not a believer in "once saved always saved" either so I believe we don't always know we are the elect...though at a point you might as did Paul near his death. We need always be strong in the faith looking out for anything that might harm the soul and looking always to do what might build oneself and others up in the faith.

 

[glorydaz]

If one couldn't deduce by the profile picture of "L" from "Death Note" then the text about being a husband and father might be a clue. I'm sure the real Columbo would be able to take it from here.

http://theologyonline.com/member.php?18255-Rosenritter&tab=aboutme

About Rosenritter

Location: The land of ice and snow.
Occupation: Luke 19:13 KJV
Religious Affiliation: Christian
Slogan or motto: 1 Peter 3:15-16 KJV
(15) But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
A little bit more about me: The husband of one wife; the father of one child.
Are you a robot?: No

I didn't know anyone would dig that deep. I went to your profile and saw none of that. Even if I had, I'm not sure I'd have read that far or even been convinced. We've had some people who have been dishonest about who and what they are. One person was clearly ashamed of her gender and refused to admit it even when caught.

And, I certainly couldn't tell from the avatar. It looks like a girl to me. In fact, it looks like the girl from, The Girl with the Dragon Tatoo. Probably that cute little turned up nose and the eye makeup.

So, the way you post, and the avatar have always pointed me to the female gender. :idunno:

I've been called a guy, even with the avatar I have, and I didn't get all bent out of shape. However, I will certainly try to remember, but I can't guarantee anything. That avatar screams girl to me, and old habits are hard to break. It's like expecting me to call Bruce Jenner a girl, even with the long hair and the makeup.

 

[steko]

http://theologyonline.com/member.php?18255-Rosenritter&tab=aboutme


Occupation: Luke 19:13 KJV

Are you a Jewish citizen of first century Jerusalem?

 

[glorydaz]

Glory, I have quoted this text multiple times already. He said that we who are already forgiven shall have that forgiveness revoked if we will not do likewise. Remind yourself of the order of events:

Spoiler

1) The servant owes an unpayable debt
2) The servant is forgiven because he begs forgiveness
3) The servant then has no mercy upon one who owes a tiny debt against him
4) The servant has his mercy revoked

The servant in the parable did nothing that earned the forgiveness. That's the definition of grace. The lesson that is learned is that grace is not bestowed unconditionally. Grace is unearned and undeserved, but not unconditional. If "Dispensationalism" teaches that grace is unconditional then it is saying to ignore the direct words of Jesus, even the words that he gave us to interpret this parable.

This is also referred to as "done despite unto the Spirit of grace."

Hebrews 10:26-29 KJV
(26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Glory, assuming that you accept John 3:16, you already agree that grace is conditional. Unconditional grace would be Universalism such as Gregory and Fine Linen are preaching on their special forum.

No, you assume too much...once again. I have nothing to do with Universalism, so don't even suggest such a thing. Simply because you don't understand something, does not mean you are free to assume anything about me.

The Law is conditional on what man does. Grace is not. IF you forgive you will be forgiven. That IF says it all. There are stipulations under the LAW to being forgiven. You must forgive others. YOU will not find that in the Gospel of Grace. Plain and simple.

That text in Hebrews 10 is also talking about the Law...not the Gospel of Grace.

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:​

 

[glorydaz]

Wait, I think I got it. Thanks. That was a lot easier than how I was getting that effect before.

It is a cool tool.

 

[glorydaz]

I do not see that we differ...explain where we differ...I'm not a Calvinist, I'm conservative Lutheran. I believe we may be saying the same thing.

Do you know how to use the quote feature? That would make it a lot easier for us to figure out who or what you are addressing.

 

[glorydaz]

Yes, I believe we are predestined to salvation...but I am not a believer in "once saved always saved" either so I believe we don't always know we are the elect...though at a point you might as did Paul near his death. We need always be strong in the faith looking out for anything that might harm the soul and looking always to do what might build oneself and others up in the faith.

What was predetermined was the PURPOSE for Jesus Christ to have a body (of believers). Those believers were predestined to be conformed into His image.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.​

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

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[Grosnick Marowbe]

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[Grosnick Marowbe]

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[Rosenritter]

I didn't know anyone would dig that deep. I went to your profile and saw none of that. Even if I had, I'm not sure I'd have read that far or even been convinced. We've had some people who have been dishonest about who and what they are. One person was clearly ashamed of her gender and refused to admit it even when caught.

And, I certainly couldn't tell from the avatar. It looks like a girl to me. In fact, it looks like the girl from, The Girl with the Dragon Tatoo. Probably that cute little turned up nose and the eye makeup.

So, the way you post, and the avatar have always pointed me to the female gender. :idunno:

I've been called a guy, even with the avatar I have, and I didn't get all bent out of shape. However, I will certainly try to remember, but I can't guarantee anything. That avatar screams girl to me, and old habits are hard to break. It's like expecting me to call Bruce Jenner a girl, even with the long hair and the makeup.

Rosenritter's avatar looks like a male to me.
(I watch a lot of anime. )

Quote Originally Posted by MichaelCadry View Post
Dear glorydaz,


He is a guy and he is a recent father. You are wrong this time. It happens to everyone.


God Bless You Tons,


Michael


I don't need to hear your opinion on the matter, Michael. She's catty.....that's enough for me.

I don't want to post too many links but to jog down memory lane, think back to when GT was trying to upset me with the nickname "Rosy", discovered Google search to trace the name "Rosenritter" back to an obscure anime called "Legend of Galactic Heroes", declared that I "wore makeup and dressed like a girl" and so forth?

Under normal circumstances when people are treating each other with civility it wouldn't really matter but it becomes an issue if gender-based accusations start flying about.

...and the dark eyes on the avatar aren't makeup; they're sleep deprivation rings.