Is believing/faith a work ?

Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
genuineoriginal said:
God is the Father, you and I are the sons.

Matthew 21:28-31
28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.​


The sons have the ability to do the will of the Father or not.
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God's Sons are exclusive to those who were Chosen of the Father in Union with Christ Eph. 1:4-5.

All the rest are not His Sons, but are of their father the devil Mat. 13:38.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

See strongs # 2041:


  1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
    1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
  2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind


  3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

    A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND

    The mind is :

    (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.

    Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.

    So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.

    Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20


    Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

    How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh

    So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..

    Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]

    But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.


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Amen !

Salvation is by Grace Eph. 2:8 given to all God's Elect Sons before the world began.

2 Tim. 1:8-10
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
genuineoriginal said:
Which banana would you choose of these two and why?
original.jpg

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Spam rabbit trail
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Nanja said:
Amen !

Salvation is by Grace Eph. 2:8 given to all God's Elect Sons before the world began.

2 Tim. 1:8-10
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
Click to expand...

Amen. As 2 Tim 2:10 emphasizes "not according to our works" not because we believe, since believing is a work we do!
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
genuineoriginal said:
You have to do the believing and confessing with the FREE WILL that God gave you.

Ezekiel 18:27-28
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.​

Click to expand...

Believing is a work. That's the point of this thread.
 
P

popsthebuilder

New member
beloved57 said:
The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

See strongs # 2041:


  1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
    1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
  2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind


  3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

    A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND

    The mind is :

    (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.

    Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.

    So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.

    Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20


    Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

    How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh

    So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..

    Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]

    But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.


Click to expand...
Believe produces works.

If one actually believes something then they live their life according to said belief.

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popsthebuilder

New member
beloved57 said:
Did u read the points made in the Op ?
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Yes Sir; twice now.

I even agreed with it.

But to be clear faith is not a work. It is what causes works of GOD to be reflected by man. The only way you can justifiably say faith is a work is to say that faith isn't a free gift or gift of any sort, but some thing earned or stolen. I'm certain it can't be stolen. Though one may turn from certain things in recognition of evil inclination and depravity, that isn't faith or the reception there of.

Hope is not a work. It is an understanding of one's own need and seeming helplessness. Calling on the Lord is not a work, it is a confession of ones inability to change and the sincere cry for help/ guidance/ strength. These things seem to be the only precursors to receiving faith if there are any at all. Faith isn't a work though as it is given to us and not something we work for.

Now; after receiving faith then works pleasing to GOD should come into play at some point, as faith is effectual and to believe is to act accordingly to belief.

Don't you agree on at least some of my points?

peace

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beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
Yes Sir; twice now.

I even agreed with it.

But to be clear faith is not a work. It is what causes works of GOD to be reflected by man. The only way you can justifiably say faith is a work is to say that faith isn't a free gift or gift of any sort, but some thing earned or stolen. I'm certain it can't be stolen. Though one may turn from certain things in recognition of evil inclination and depravity, that isn't faith or the reception there of.

Hope is not a work. It is an understanding of one's own need and seeming helplessness. Calling on the Lord is not a work, it is a confession of ones inability to change and the sincere cry for help/ guidance/ strength. These things seem to be the only precursors to receiving faith if there are any at all. Faith isn't a work though as it is given to us and not something we work for.

Now; after receiving faith then works pleasing to GOD should come into play at some point, as faith is effectual and to believe is to act accordingly to belief.

Don't you agree on at least some of my points?

peace

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You contradict yourself saying you agree with op points and then turned around and said Faith is not a work. Faith/believing is a work. Read how in Op.
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
beloved57 said:
You contradict yourself saying you agree with op points and then turned around and said Faith is not a work. Faith/believing is a work. Read how in Op.
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I read it twice friend; and while I agree with much of it and it is somewhat thought provoking; I do disagree with it's conclusion.

Did you agree with any of my points? Why or why not?

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beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
I read it twice friend; and while I agree with much of it and it is somewhat thought provoking; I do disagree with it's conclusion.

Did you agree with any of my points? Why or why not?

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If u read it twice and understand it, then you see why i say you are in contradiction.

Also this thread isnt about discussion of your points.
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
beloved57 said:
If u read it twice and understand it, then you see why i say you are in contradiction.

Also this thread isnt about discussion of your points.
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Oh, so it is only for those who wholly agree with you? Not intended for actual conversation?

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beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
Oh, so it is only for those who wholly agree with you? Not intended for actual conversation?

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No u don't have to agree with me. But I'm not deviating from wanting to discuss my points of the Op to discuss your points.
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
beloved57 said:
No u don't have to agree with me. But I'm not deviating from wanting to discuss my points of the Op to discuss your points.
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They both are related to your topic.

My points were brought up due to your own and are not a deviation from the topic of the op.

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marhig

marhig

Well-known member
genuineoriginal said:
God is the Father, you and I are the sons.

Matthew 21:28-31
28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.​


The sons have the ability to do the will of the Father or not.
Click to expand...

genuineoriginal said:
God is the Father, you and I are the sons.

Matthew 21:28-31
28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.​


The sons have the ability to do the will of the Father or not.
Click to expand...

Yes we have a choice, believe or not, obey or not. And once we hear the word and believe, we are then to try and turn from sin and when God sees a willing heart he blesses us with his Spirit and he helps us to overcome.

I don't think that the apostles would have been blessed with the Spirit if they didn't obey Jesus's word.

And Jesus also said this

Matthew 7

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

So we have a choice, live by the will of the father who is our God, or not. It's no good just saying "I believe" with our mouths, we have to live it out and he a doer of the word and not a hearer only.
 
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