Is believing/faith a work ?

[beloved57]

The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

See strongs # 2041:

1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
   
   1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
   
   
   
3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
   
   A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND
   
   The mind is :
   
   (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.
   
   Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.
   
   So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.
   
   Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20
   
   
   Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
   
   
   ²⁰ Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
   
   How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh
   
   So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..
   
   Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]
   
   But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.
   
   
   

 

[Bright Raven]

No! Absolutely not!

Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

You are out of context! The author says we are saved by grace through faith, not of works. If it is not of works, how can faith be a work?

 

[meshak]

No! Absolutely not!

Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

You are out of context! The author says we are saved by grace through faith, not of works. If it is not of works, how can faith be a work?

why are you arguing with b57?

He believes the way you do.

 

[Bright Raven]

why are you arguing with b57?

He believes the way you do.

No he doesn't. He is a Hyper-Calvinist who believes in election with no room for free-will. I believe in free-will, not election.

 

[meshak]

No he doesn't. He is a Hyper-Calvinist who believes in election with no room for free-will. I believe in free-will, not election.

but He believes in faith only like you do.

 

[Bright Raven]

but He believes in faith only like you do.

He believes that we have no choice in the matter of our salvation. That is not the way I believe.

 

[meshak]

BR, this thread is not about free will.

He does not believe in producing fruit is core of salvation.

 

[Bright Raven]

BR, this thread is not about free will.

He does not believe in producing fruit is core of salvation.

Sure is when you talk about salvation.

 

[meshak]

His purpose of this thread is the same as your claim.

I showed him Jesus' salvation account of Samaritan.

that's what prompted him to start this thread.

So you should be in good company with him.

 

[meshak]

b57's faith is very much like yours. So is Robert Pate.

He does not believe in Jesus' word, like most of you.

That's what happens when you follow man's doctrine.

You guys' core belief is the same but bickering to no end.

my goodness.

 

[beloved57]

So if one says God saved me because of my believing/ faith

Then congratulations you are boasting about God saved you by your works !

The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

See strongs # 2041:

1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
   1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
   
   
3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
   
   A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND
   
   The mind is :
   
   (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.
   
   Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.
   
   So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.
   
   Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20
   
   
   Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
   
   
   ²⁰ Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
   
   How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh
   
   So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..
   
   Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]
   
   But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.
   
   
   

 

[Bright Raven]

So if one says God saved me because of my believing/ faith

Then congratulations you are boasting about God saved you by your works !

Context, context, context. Forgot the rest of the verse didn't you! "So that no one can boast". :duh:

 

[genuineoriginal]

So if one says God saved me because of my believing/ faith

Then congratulations you are boasting about God saved you by your works !

Which banana would you choose of these two and why?

 

[john w]

Romans 4:5 KJV But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith

Faith is contrasted....

"but"


....with work=opposites.


But that won't stop a Calvinist/Clavinist from perverting it, denying it, as they do with most of the book.


Leave thread starter bedeviled666 be-all he does is "Deny....Deny...Deny...."

 

[Nanja]

So if one says God saved me because of my believing/ faith

Then congratulations you are boasting about God saved you by your works !

Absolutely !

It's only once a person has been Given a New Heart is he made able to perform the actions described here:

Rom. 10:9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Ezk. 36:26-27
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 37 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Belief / Faith in Christ is the fruit of being Given a New Heart / New Birth Gal. 5:22.

John 3:27
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Absolutely !

It's only once a person has been Given a New Heart is he made able to perform the actions described here:

Rom. 10:9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

You have to do the believing and confessing with the FREE WILL that God gave you.

Ezekiel 18:27-28 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. 28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.​

 

[Nanja]

You have to do the believing and confessing with the FREE WILL that God gave you.

Ezekiel 18:27-28 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. 28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.​

The only possibility of a wicked man turning from his wickedness and practicing justice and righteousness is if God quickens him; that is to be made spiritually alive: born from above !

 

[genuineoriginal]

The only possibility of a wicked man turning from his wickedness and practicing justice and righteousness is if God quickens him; that is to be made spiritually alive: born from above !

God gave man free will so man would have the ability to turn from his wickedness to practicing justice and righteousness.
God doesn't quicken a man until after the man has already turned from his wickedness.

Spoiler

(Except for Calvinists, they are the only ones that are stuck in Total Depravity and can't turn away from it).

 

[Nanja]

God gave man free will so man would have the ability to turn from his wickedness to practicing justice and righteousness.
God doesn't quicken a man until after the man has already turned from his wickedness.

Spoiler

(Except for Calvinists, they are the only ones that are stuck in Total Depravity and can't turn away from it).

The God I serve clearly states that He does all things according to HIS WILL:

Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing:
and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven,
and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand,
or say unto him, What doest thou?

 

[genuineoriginal]

The God I serve clearly states that He does all things according to HIS WILL:

God is the Father, you and I are the sons.

Matthew 21:28-31 28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. 29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. 30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. 31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.​

The sons have the ability to do the will of the Father or not.