In the beginning was the Word

S-word

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Banned
Space-Time there "Einstein"
In other words, before anything was created, He was already there.

The first law of thermodynamics is the same as the first law of conservation and that is,that energy can neither be created or destroyed. So it would seem that if energy cannot be created,then it always was, and if energy can never be destroyed, it always will be. Therefore, according to this law, energy must be eternal having neither beginning or end.

But energy can be and is converted into matter. In fact,this material universe at the time of the Big Bang was pure energy, the amorphous and featureless fireball from which this universe of matter was created, which in time will be reconverted to its original form as energy during the phase of the Big Crunch.

If you believe that a universe of mindless matter has produced beings with intrinsic ends, self- replication capabilities, and “coded chemistry,” then you are wrong, for it is the eternal invisible energy which has neither beginning or end, and which becomes this physical universe that has developed a mind that is comparable to all the minds that have developed within its physical stage.

If we accept the scientific theory that we live in an eternal oscillating universe, which expands outward when a point of infinite density is spatially separated in the event that we call “The Big Bang” thereby creating an expanding physical universe, which in time and owing to gravitational attraction, will contract once again into that invisible point of infinite density, then it is logical to assume that time and three dimensional space, which began with the Big Bang, ceases to be, when space and all therein, is condensed once more into the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of origin, which is then, once again spatially separated by the event which is called the Big Bang, from which space and time begin.

I believe the words of the Omega, who is the end result of the evolution of life in this period of universal activity, ‘The Most High in creation’, who, through his chosen scribes some 5,000 years ago revealed that we exist in an eternal oscillating universe, which oscillating process has neither beginning or end, which truth has never been proven to be wrong, nor ever will be.

In fact, scientists are now beginning to theorize what the believers have known for thousands of years.

"Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence." ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara, or the cycle of manifestation, "The Great Day," which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by "Pralaya," a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. "Manvantara," is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, "Pralaya," is the evening that proceeds the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the "GENERATIONS OF THE UNIVERSE."

The English word "Generation," is translated from the Hebrew "toledoth" which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as "births," or "descendants," such as "These are the generations of Adam," or "these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc.

And the "Great Day" in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

A series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.

This is the true resurrection in which all from the previous cycle of universal activity, who still have the judgmental war raging within them, are cast back into the refining fires of the endless cycles of rebirth within the physical manifestation of God.

Another universe may have preceded ours, study finds. May 14th, 2006. Courtesy Penn State University and World Science staff.*

Three physicists say they have done calculations suggesting that before the birth of our universe, which is expanding, there was an earlier universe that was shrinking.*

The results stem from a theory that claims the fabric of space and time is made up of minuscule, indivisible bits, much as matter is.*

Scientists believe our cosmos began in a sort of explosion called the Big Bang, when everything that exists---which had previously been packed into one infinitely dense point---burst outward.*

The universe is still expanding according to this view, because it was born expanding.*

According to some proposals, the Big Bang is a repeating cycle. Universes might expand, then shrink back to a point, then expand again. Thus the “Bang” would be really more like a bounce.*

The idea is appealing in some ways, but scientists have found it far from easy to test. Einstein’s Theory of Relativity, a key basis for the Big Bang theory, is silent on what happened before that event.*

“General relativity can be used to describe the universe back to a point at which matter becomes so dense that it’s equations don’t hold up,” said Abhay Ashtekar, director of the Gravitational Physics and Geometry at Penn State University in University Park, Penn.*

To go further, physicists must use tools Einstein didn’t have, he added. Ashtekar and two post-doctoral researchers developed such tools through a combination of Quantum physics- the science of subatomic particles—and general relativity, which describes the large-scale structure of space and time.*

They found that before the Big Bang, there was a contracting universe. Other than the fact it was shrinking, they added, it was similar to ours in terms of the geometry of its space and time, or spacetime, as cosmologists call it since Einstein found the two are interwoven.*

“In place of a classical Big Bang there is in fact a quantum bounce,” said Ashtekar. “We were so surprised by the finding,” he added, that the team repeated the calculations for months to include different possible values of some numbers representing the current universe. But the results kept pointing to a bounce.*

The findings appear in the current issue of the research journal Physical Review Letters.*

While the general idea of another, pre-Big Bang universe isn’t new, Ashtekar said, this is the first mathematical study that systematically establishes its existence and deduces properties of its spacetime geometry.*

The notion that spacetime has a geometry involves the idea that it can be curved or flat. A “flat” spacetime is one in which geometry works as we normally expect; for example, parallel lines never meet. But Einstein found that material objects deform this flatness, introducing curvature.*

To arrive at their pre-existing universe finding, Ashtekar’s group used loop quantum gravity, a theory that seeks to reconcile General relativity with quantum physics. These two seemingly fundamental theories are otherwise contradictory in some ways.*

Loop quantum gravity, which was pioneered at Ashtekar’s institute, proposes that spacetime has a discrete “atomic” structure, as opposed to being a continuous sheet, as Einstein, along with most us, assumed.*

In loop quantum gravity, space is thought of as woven from one-dimensional “threads.” The continuum picture remains mostly valid as an approximation. But near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn so that it’s discrete, or quantum, nature becomes important. One outcome of this is that gravity becomes repulsive instead of attractive, Ashetkar argued; the result is the Big Bounce.*

Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University, a cosmologist who has explored some related concepts, wrote in an email that the new research “Supports, in a general way, the idea that the Big Bang need not be the beginning of space and time.”*

The universe “may have undergone one or more bangs in its past history,” he added.*

Steinhardt and colleagues have also proposed a bounce of sorts, but it’s different. It could turn out that the two scenarios are equivalent at some deep level, but that’s not known, he added. Steinhardt‘s scenario makes use of string theory, another attempt to reconcile General Relativity with quantum physics.*

Some versions of string theory portray our visible universe as a three -dimensional space embedded in an invisible space having more dimensions. Our zone, called a braneworld-the word comes from its similarity to a sort of membrane-could periodically bounce into another, parallel braneworld.*

Such an event might look to us, stuck in a few dimensions as we are, as a Big Bang. “I don’t know if Ashetkar’s case translates into a bounce between braneworlds like we are describing,” Steinhardt wrote. But by his estimate, this cataclysm won’t take place for another roughly 300 billion years—so there is hopefully plenty of time to answer the question.*

I believe that because three dimensional time as we know it, ceases at the singularity, to those scientists, there appears to be no time between the final crunch and the next Big Bang, when three dimensional space and time would begin once more, thus the Big Bounce.

“For God is calling all creation back to himself, and will then create for us, a new heavens and a new earth.”
 

S-word

BANNED
Banned
Response to post #74 by God's Truth.

S-word.........He certainly did, and all who study the Holy Scriptures and not the lying teachings of the worthless shepherd, can easily see through the lies and corruptions that have been introduced by your mother church.

The intent of the Lord is righteous, in raising up the worthless shepherd, and given them over to believe the lie, in order that only those who would endure in the truth of his word, would win the victory, while the intent of the Roman church was to seek out and devour and become bloated on the fat of the lambs of God’s flock.

Zechariah 11: 12-17; 12 Then I said to them, “If it seems good to you, give me my wages; but if not, keep them.” And they weighed out as my wages thirty pieces of silver. 13 Then the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter”—the lordly price at which I was priced by them. So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord, to the potter. 14 Then I broke my second staff Union, annulling the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

15 Then the Lord said to me, “Take once more the equipment of a foolish shepherd. 16 For behold, I am raising up in the land a shepherd who does not care for those being destroyed, or seek the young or heal the maimed or nourish the healthy, but devours the flesh of the fat ones, tearing off even their hoofs.

17*“Woe to my worthless shepherd,
****who deserts the flock!
May the sword strike his arm
****and his right eye!
Let his arm be wholly withered,
****his right eye utterly blinded!”

Oh you shepherd of the darkness, who claim God sent you out
And even though we know that’s true, that fact I wouldn’t flout
For God commanded Zechariah, “Throw my wages ‘cross the floor,
Those thirty bits of silver, for I’ll guide this flock no more
A worthless shepherd now I’ll raise to guide this stubborn flock
And he will be a useless one, of him I’ll take no stock
For he’ll not feed my little ones, nor search for them that’s lost
But he eats the meat of the fattest sheep. And their hoofs? He tears them off
That worthless shepherd, he is doomed for abandoning my flock
His power, will I destroy by war, his arm will wither dry, then drop
And his right eye will I turn Blind, that’s why he’s never seen
The passage where I speak of him, Zechariah eleven—twelve to seventeen.

Zechariah 13: 7, The Lord Almighty says, “Wake up Sword, and attack the shepherd who works for me! Kill him, etc.

All bodies must die then go off into judgment, even the religious bodies that have burned the pagans at the stake, who have murdered, how many thousands of women, who were accused by their husbands as witches, knowing that the church who forbade them to divorce their wives would burn or drown them as witches instead. And how many atrocities were perpetrated during the inquisition? There is not enough room in this entire forum to record the sins of the church of Constantine which has fulfilled the purpose for which God allowed it to be established.

But now has come the time for her to be judged, and no matter how righteous we become in the twilight of our years, no matter how repentant we are for the sins of our past, and no matter how many tears we shed in the passion of our despair, we must all pay the blood price for the mistakes of our past, even those whose are judged while alive and the elements of their physical bodies become so excited they burn up, and disappear. But it is the hope of God, that his children will hear his call and come out of her, and that only the empty shell will be destroyed.

Revelation 18: 4 to 8.
Come out of her my people, do not share in her sin.
You must not share her punishment, her judgment day has come
Her sins are piled to heaven and God recalls her evil ways,
She says I am no widow and I’ll never see the grave
Because of that in just one day disease will strike her down
Plagues and famine she’ll receive until the day she’s burned
You must pay her back two fold for all that she has done
Fill her cup as she filled yours, but make it take as strong
For all the glory she has claimed and all her luxury
Must be repaid this very day with pain and misery.
 

Notaclue

New member
Proverbs 8
22 The LORD created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old.
23 Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth.
24 When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth;
26 before he had made the earth with its fields, or the first of the dust of the world.
27 When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,
28 when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep,
29 when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth,
30 then I was beside him, like a master workman; and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always,
31 rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the sons of men.



Hi, Good post let me expand on it.


Rev.3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning(*746)* of the creation of God;


746. arché ►
Strong's Concordance
arché: beginning, origin
Original Word: ἀρχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: arché
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-khay')
Short Definition: ruler, beginning
Definition: (a) rule (kingly or magisterial), (b) plur: in a quasi-personal sense, almost: rulers, magistrates, (c) beginning.
HELPS Word-studies
746 arxḗ – properly, from the beginning (temporal sense), i.e. "the initial (starting) point"; (figuratively) what comes first and therefore is chief (foremost), i.e. has the priority because ahead of the rest ("preeminent").



Ps.104:24(Y.L.T.)* How many have been Thy works, O Jehovah, All of them in wisdom Thou hast made, Full is the earth of thy possessions.

All of them in wisdom Thou hast made



Prv.8:12-* I, wisdom, have dwelt with prudence, And a knowledge of devices I find out.

13The fear of Jehovah [is] to hate evil; Pride, and arrogance, and an evil way, And a froward mouth, I have hated.

14Mine [is] counsel and substance, I [am] understanding, I have might.

15By me kings reign, and princes decree righteousness,

16By me do chiefs rule, and nobles, All judges of the earth.

17I love those loving me, And those seeking me earnestly do find me.

18Wealth and honour [are] with me, Lasting substance and righteousness.

19Better [is] my fruit than gold, even fine gold, And mine increase than choice silver.

20In a path of righteousness I cause to walk, In midst of paths of judgment,

21To cause my lovers to inherit substance, Yea, their treasures I fill.

22Jehovah possessed me — the beginning of His way, Before His works since then.

the beginning of His way,



Prv.3:13(Y.L.T.) O the happiness of a man [who] hath found wisdom, And of a man [who] bringeth forth understanding

14 For better [is] her merchandise Than the merchandise of silver, And than gold — her increase.

15Precious she [is] above rubies, And all thy pleasures are not comparable to her.

16Length of days [is] in her right hand, In her left [are] wealth(riches) and honour.

17Her ways [are] ways of pleasantness, And all her paths [are] peace.

18A tree of life she [is] to those laying hold on her, And whoso is retaining her [is] happy.

19Jehovah by wisdom did found the earth, He prepared the heavens by understanding


18 A tree of life she [is] to those laying hold on her,



Rev.22:1(Y.L.T) And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, bright as crystal, going forth out of the throne of God and of the Lamb:
2in the midst of its broad place, and of the river on this side and on that, [is] a tree of life, yielding twelve fruits, in each several month rendering its fruits, and the leaves of the tree [are] for the service of the nations;
3and any curse there shall not be any more, and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him,

and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, *(Her) - (αὐτῇ)

Case: Dative
Gender: Feminine
Person: 3rd Person
Number: Singular Feminine personnel pronoun.


Rev.2:7. 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.

To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life

Rev.22:19and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.

God shall take away his part from the tree of life,


Peace.
 

daqq

Well-known member
You don't need to understand Greek when God can speak perfect English in your mind. Most Greeks, Hebrews and Arabians didn't believe in the gospel when God's servants preached Him to them. So those languages didn't help them understand the knowledge of Christ that came out of the gospel and here's why;

Romans 11:
3: "Lord, they have killed thy prophets, they have demolished thy altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life."
4: But what is God's reply to him? "I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Ba'al."
5: So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
6: But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
7: What then? Israel failed to obtain what it sought. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,
8: as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that should not see and ears that should not hear, down to this very day."

Hmmm, I can tell by your reasoning that you have not heard much of what He says. :)
 

daqq

Well-known member
I can tell by your comment, that you are judging someone that you shouldn't be judging at all.

Judging? What I went by was this comment from yourself:

"You don't need to understand Greek when God can speak perfect English in your mind. Most Greeks, Hebrews and Arabians didn't believe in the gospel when God's servants preached Him to them. So those languages didn't help them understand the knowledge of Christ that came out of the gospel".


Therefore I know that you put your trust in men: translators and translator teams, others who have rendered the holy Scripture for you according to their own paradigm-mindsets, because I know from studying the languages that it is not possible to render either Hebrew or Greek into English or any other language without interpreting: it is absolutely unavoidable. There is no such thing as a perfect "word-for-word" translation because it simply is not possible. And as for "God speaking perfect English in your mind" I would like to know more fully what you mean by that because there is no perfect English translation. Do your actually hear God audibly speaking perfect English in your mind? Or do you just mean that in the way you "hear" it as you read your favorite imperfect English translation? :)
 

beameup

New member
Proverbs 8
22 The LORD created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old.
23 Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth.
24 When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth;
26 before he had made the earth with its fields, or the first of the dust of the world.
27 When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,
28 when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep,
29 when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth,
30 then I was beside him, like a master workman; and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always,
31 rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the sons of men.

Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, until iniquity was found in thee. Ezekiel 28:14-15

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. - Isaiah 14:12-14

Satan-Devil-Lucifer had the highest position in heaven before he fell into the sin of pride.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Excellent, thank you, and welcome to the board! :)

You don't need to understand Greek when God can speak perfect English in your mind.

Hmmm, I can tell by your reasoning that you have not heard much of what He says. :)

I can tell by your comment, that you are judging someone that you shouldn't be judging at all.

How much of my life did you tell me that I have wasted when you made your own self-righteous judgment? Of course you cannot know because you do not know me from Adam. Perhaps then you should not be judging if you do not want to be judged, eh wise one? :chuckle:
 

daqq

Well-known member
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, until iniquity was found in thee. Ezekiel 28:14-15

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. - Isaiah 14:12-14

Satan-Devil-Lucifer had the highest position in heaven before he fell into the sin of pride.

Are you seriously implying that "Wisdom" personified from Proverbs 8 is the Devil? :doh:
 

beameup

New member
Are you seriously implying that "Wisdom" personified from Proverbs 8 is the Devil? :doh:
Are you saying that God had to "create" wisdom in order for God to be "wise"? :rotfl:

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
- Job 38:4-7
 

S-word

BANNED
Banned
Are you seriously implying that "Wisdom" personified from Proverbs 8 is the Devil? :doh:

She was the first of all creation
With her, God made the world
He named the woman "wisdom,"
And in her arms I now am furled.

She sings her songs of mystery
With words that tease the mind,
Suggestive of some ecstasy
Erotic, yet divine.

She fiddles on my heart strings*
And with her magic bow,
Sweet tunes contrived in heaven
From my heart and mind now flow.

The loquacious liquid from her lips,
Expands my feeble mind,
With each and every precious kiss
I reel as if from wine

And babble incoherent words
Unable to express,*
The wonders I envision
When our lips are tightly pressed..... By S-word
 

daqq

Well-known member
Are you saying that God had to "create" wisdom in order for God to be "wise"? :rotfl:

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
- Job 38:4-7

Wisdom is likewise spoken of in the sense of the Father's "master builder". Sound familiar? But you and "jcforever" cannot see it in your favorite English translations because you apparently choose not to read the ones which do somewhat render the passage in such a way, but it is there in the original language of the text:

Proverbs 8:30 KJV
30 Then I was by him, as
one brought up [H525] with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

H525 אָמוֹן 'amown (aw-mone') n-m.
skilled, i.e. an architect (like H542).
[from H539, probably in the sense of training]
KJV: one brought up.
Root(s): H539

The KJV renders 'amown as "one brought up" but the word carries with it the deeper meaning of a skilled or cunning workman, like an architect, and again some other later translations do bring out this understanding. Moreover, concerning your own comments quoted above, Wisdom has her seven pillars, (Proverbs 9:1), like seven morning stars and seven eyes upon the one Stone; seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, seven Spirits before the throne of the Most High; the seven eyes of the Most High sent forth into all His Land, seven stars in the right hand of Meshiah, the seven horns of his power hidden therein, (Habakkuk 3:4). Wisdom personified is the Father's master-architect from εν αρχη, (Gen 1:1, John 1:1, εν αρχη).
 

daqq

Well-known member
I was not judging you when I said you don't need to understand Greek or any other languages that were being used by people during the first witness of the millennium reign of Christ. God can speak perfect English in the minds of men so there's no need to learn other languages. All you have to do is listen to the servant God is using in the language that the servant understands and has spoken since he was birthed in this world.

It appears you are fearful of the knowledge of Christ beyond what has been revealed to you. Did you know those with the mind of Christ can judge because it's God who is doing the judging?

1 Corinthians 2
10: God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
11: For what person knows a man's thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12: Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might understand the gifts bestowed on us by God.
13: And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit.
14: The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
15: The spiritual man judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.
16: "For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

So now you admit that you do indeed judge; but you say it is God who is doing the judging when you judge. Why am I not surprised? For you did indeed judge because you compared yourself to me when you judged. You did not judge by the scripture, which is originally written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, no, but rather you judged according to your own standards by comparing me to yourself and your own experiences while never having met me or having even spoken to me before this thread. That reveals to me who is indeed your god, that is, yourself; for you compared me to yourself and not the scripture or the Word.
 
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