Well enough, but this is what you said first:
Theology Club: I'm a heretic (probably...you tell me)
- Thread starter musterion
- Start date
journey
New member
I agree with you. There are many evangelists, preachers, teachers, and missionaries in my family, and I'm firmly convinced they were called and equipped by God. I'm talking about ministry - not about performing miracles.
On the other side of the coin, I believe there are many in the ministry who were not called and are not performing the will of God. God knows who they are.
musterion;376336 [U said:
Hi and many letters that Paul wrote are hard for many believers , even dispensationalists .
1 Cor 13:8-13 is one bench mark .
Eph 4:11 is another different bench mark .
Take the word Prophet !
How were OT prophets used in the OT ?
They were used to tell Israel , better Return back and worship Jehovah and they worship Idols instead .
O
I believe that Prophets to today are to tell the EKKLESIA to Return to the Mystery , for the Obedience of Faith , Rom 16:26 .
Dispensationalist are over the place , where some believe that we are the Bride of Christ , and mant think that we are under the New Covenant , and many think that the Body began in Acts 13 , and many believe that the 12 apostles are in the Body of Christ just to mention a few things !
dan p
Hi and Gifts will be coming back in the Great Tribulation , Mark 16:15-18 and Acts 2:17 , which are yet in the Future Tense .
dan p
Arsenios
Well-known member
musterion said:
What do you do then with 1Cor4:9-16?
It is one thing to say that the likes of Paul have not been repeated, or that his ministry was for the establishment of the Church, and so his Gifts are specific to that purpose... It is another to say that the Gifts themselves were withdrawn after him... We take this passage as Paul's call to the narrow and hard and straited Way of Christ, and many have found it across 2000 years, and ARE finding it even as we are talking about finding it...
Arsenios
That was their purpose, according to the prophets.
musterion
Well-known member
Not seeing your point, please explain.
Do you believe that is the case?
Which specific gifts do you refer to?
Who is 'we'? Your church or denomination?
musterion
Well-known member
If God still calls certain people, presumably only men, to pastoral ministry, how does a man know he has been called? More to the point: how can others in a local body know a man has been called? Paul said that if any man desires that office it's a good thing, but there said nothing about God calling him, only that he needs to fulfill certain requirements.
So what is the test that a man is truly "called of God" today? Doctrinal fidelity? Fidelity to what? Almost no pastor preaches Christ according to the revelation of the mystery. The number that do so worldwide today is probably in the low few thousands, if that. The rest do not recognize it and may oppose it...and they all claim some kind of calling.
Good discussion, gentlemen, thank you for participating.
So what is the test that a man is truly "called of God" today? Doctrinal fidelity? Fidelity to what? Almost no pastor preaches Christ according to the revelation of the mystery. The number that do so worldwide today is probably in the low few thousands, if that. The rest do not recognize it and may oppose it...and they all claim some kind of calling.
Good discussion, gentlemen, thank you for participating.
heir
TOL Subscriber
The prosperity gospel?
musterion
Well-known member
Genius Eeset,
re: your Report.
The Meshak persona believes the four Gospels are the only reliable part of the Bible. She/they are on record stating the rest of it is corrupted and untrustworthy. That precludes her/them from posting here.
Also, Knight pointed out the rules and enforcement are purposely subjective, probably on account occasions exactly like this one.
You should retract your complaint.
re: your Report.
is one of the requirements for posting in this Club.
The Meshak persona believes the four Gospels are the only reliable part of the Bible. She/they are on record stating the rest of it is corrupted and untrustworthy. That precludes her/them from posting here.
Also, Knight pointed out the rules and enforcement are purposely subjective, probably on account occasions exactly like this one.
You should retract your complaint.
"I desire mercy and not sacrifice."
Matthew 18:21-35
Right Divider
Body part
Not to take this thread on a tangent, but it is clear that something changed with relation to Gods giving of gifts throughout the Acts period.
In the early Acts when Peter and the eleven were prominent, they healed everyone. EVERYONE....
But I don't see him selling all that he has, as they did in Acts 2, or healing anyone.
Paul also performed healing too, during his early ministry. But by the end of his ministry he was leaving his friends sick and telling other to drink wine for the stomach ailments.
The preterists that harangue us here need to EXPLAIN why, if we are living "in the Kingdom", there are sick people here.
In the early Acts when Peter and the eleven were prominent, they healed everyone. EVERYONE....
Act 5:11-16 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things. (12) And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch. (13) And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them. (14) And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.) (15) Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them. (16) There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
I hear teachers like Dr. Erwin Lutzer fawn over this time saying silly stuff like: "If only we were more like the early church"....But I don't see him selling all that he has, as they did in Acts 2, or healing anyone.
Paul also performed healing too, during his early ministry. But by the end of his ministry he was leaving his friends sick and telling other to drink wine for the stomach ailments.
2Ti 4:20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.
1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
In the Kingdom that Jesus preached, everyone gets healed.1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
Luk 9:1-6 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. (2) And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. (3) And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece. (4) And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart. (5) And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them. (6) And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.
These gifts were part of the kingdom that was and is to come, but has been delayed.
Luk 10:9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
In the Kingdom, everyone get healed.
The preterists that harangue us here need to EXPLAIN why, if we are living "in the Kingdom", there are sick people here.
musterion
Well-known member
First, the Meshak persona isn't my sister and she certainly doesn't consider me her/their brother. Second, she/they have done no personal offense to me that I feel the need to forgive. She/they are wicked, but wicked to everyone. So what IS your point? Do you even have one?
She was not perma-banned so mercy was given...Not getting what we deserve is the definition of mercy.
glorydaz
Well-known member
It's funny you should quote that since it condemns Meshak and every other worker who trusts in his own obedience. It speaks of the hypocrisy of Israel and their obedience to the law, and the EXTERNAL practices of "righteousness". Oh what sacrifices they make in order to earn their salvation. :nono:
Meshak won't accept His sacrifice and spits on His mercy. She rejects the GIFT of salvation. In the ages to come, Meshak will be among those who boasted in their own righteousness, and our Lord will say, "I never knew you."
Eph. 2:4-8
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: