popsthebuilder
New member
What do you mean?
If you don't believe in the trinity...
- Thread starter Eeset
- Start date
- Status
You have been judging daqq. I know you are using the term "warning" but it is just the same. You are just being clever.
Apple7
New member
Isa 54.5
For your Makers (plural) are your husbands (plural); Yahweh of Hosts is His name; and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of all the earth.
keypurr
Well-known member
Judging one another seems to be a natural thing we all do. But I agree that we should not condemn folks who just do not know any better. By our love let them see the Christ in us.
:think:
Acts 13:33 that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, 'YOU ARE MY SON; TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN (G1080) YOU.'
Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say, "YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"? And again, "I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME"? (read the next verse too!)
1Jo 4:9 By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him.
G1080
γεννάω
gennaō
ghen-nah'-o
to procreate... figuratively to regenerate: - bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, create!
NASB Luk 1:30 The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus.
NASB Luk 1:35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
What reason...? God came in the flesh or the spirit created a baby in a womb?
Yea, you still don't get it do you...
oly::sherlock:Paul
Let's start here... We know that God is not a God of confusion... yet you post a verse that claims... No one has ever seen God! and then suggest Jesus whom fed thousands and healed so many sick and was clearly seen and touched in scripture is somehow invisible? Can Jesus be the very God you use as your support verse that has never been seen??? :think:
Your getting confused by your traditions of men!
oly::sherlock:Paul
Thanks... I will!
Now here is something very obvious that they never told YOU in church. This expression from Jesus' lips "I am" (Greek ego eimi) occurs throughout the Gospel of John and in no other text in John can it mean I AM, the God of the Old Testament.
Go back to John 4:25-26 for instance. The woman at the well said to Jesus, "I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ); when that one comes, he will declare all things to us." And Jesus said to her, "I who speak with you am he."
You will notice that in most Bibles that word he is in italics. This means that the translators have correctly supplied a word in English that is not in the Greek but that nevertheless makes the intended sense quite clear. Here Jesus says to the woman - in the context of her question about the Messiah - that he is the Messiah, the Christ. "I who speak to you am he." In the Greek it reads ego eimi. Jesus simply says I am he, the Messiah. Definitely not “I am is the one speaking to you!”
In John 9 Jesus heals the blind man. Is this really the beggar who used to sit groping in the dark? Some people said, "Yes, it's him all right." Other said, "No, he just looks like him." But the beggar says, " ego eimi!" And the translators have no problem writing, "I am the one." So why aren't the translators consistent? Why not capitalize what this man says as I AM? Because it is clear that he is not claiming to be the God of the Old Testament. Saying "I am" (ego eimi) does not make somebody God in the Bible!
What Jesus is saying is simply “Before Abraham was born, I am he,” that is, "I am the Messiah."
Notice the context in John 8:56 where Jesus says, "Abraham rejoiced to see my day." By faith Abraham looked forward and saw the coming Messiah before he came in history. He believed the promise that God would send the Promised One. On the other hand these Jews did not believe that Jesus was their Messiah. They were claiming to be Abraham's descendents. Jesus said that this was impossible for they did not recognize him as their Messiah. But Jesus asserts that even before Abraham was born, he is the One who was always in God's plan. This Abraham believe and saw. The Messiah preexisted in God's plan and therefore in Abraham's believing mind, because he trusted the promise of God. Jesus positively did not say, before Abraham was, I was." Also, Jesus did not say, “Before Abraham was, I AM WHAT I AM."
The conclusion is inevitable. Jesus’ claim "Before Abraham was born, I am he" is the straightforward claim that he is the long promised one, the Messiah, the One in question. Jesus is the Savior in God's promise even before Abraham was born.
Jesus, NEVER claimed to be God!
Study harder...
oly::sherlock:Paul
Apple7
New member
θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε μονογενης θεος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο
Theon oudeis heōraken pōpote monogenēs Theos ho ōn eis ton kolpon tou Patros ekeinos exēgēsato
No one has seen God at any time; but the unique One, Himself God, who is in the bosom of the Father, that One declares Him. John 1.18
Apple7
New member
Absolutely no mention of The Son being created.
In fact, 'syllēmpsē' only occurs this one time in scripture - clearly indicating a conception of an entirely different order.
Absolutely no mention of The Son being created here, either.
Again, 'episkiasei' only occurs this one time in all of scripture....clearly indicating a conception of an entirely new order.
Further, and the biggest gaff that you have made yet, is that the context of these verses mentions Father, Son & Spirit...The Trinity!
You just owned yourself.:baby:
StanJ;4429634[B said:
Thanks again for allowing me to expose your traditions of men...
In this chapter, when isolated from its context, individual phrases seem to justify some Trinitarian interpretation. These phrases are: "through whom all so He made the world" (v.20); "And let all the Angels of God worship him" (v.6); "But of the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever’" (v.8); "You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands; they will perish, but you will remain…You are the same, and your years will not come to an end" (v.10,12). Read in isolation-out of contexts-these verses seem to say that Jesus is (Jehovah) God. Is this interpretation justified?
Many expositors think not. Kuschel in his book, Born Before All Time? p.356. Is adamant that we do not have to "interpret the Christology of Hebrews in such an extremely ontological terms (in the light of Nicea!) (Ontology is the study of metaphysics dealing with the nature of being.) Kuschel comments that "the majority of exegetes" do not now assume "an extremely developed Hellenistic-syncretistic Christ-myth as a background to Hebrews, nor are dilemmas foisted on the text. Material from the Hellenistic Jewish tradition is thought enough to explaine the Christology of Hebrews." In other words, we are cautioned not to read back into the text what later traditions have taught us.
Although debate has centered around who the actual author of Hebrews is, we note that the his whole literary skill and theological argumentation is indebted to the world of Old Testament ideas. The reason why the book of Hebrews was first written was to encourage believers who were undergoing fierce persecution to remain loyal to Christ. These believers were Jewish converts to Christ and they must be encouraged to see the superiority of Christ over the old Jewish system of things. Christ is superior to the angels (who had mediated the old covenant); he is superior to Abraham, Moses, and Joshua. Christ is superior to the Levitical priesthood and Temple rituals and sacrifices.
This superiority rests in the fact that Jesus is the resurrected Son of God, not that he is Almighty God. If Jesus is the Almighty in human form, then the author could have saved himself a lot of the ink and papyrus. All he needed to do was write that Jesus is superior to all because he is God. End of argument.
But the opening verses of Hebrews allows no such interpretation. They run like this: "God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world (ages)" (v.1-3).
Dunn, in his book Christology in the Making believes Hebrews 1:1-3 is parallel to Colossians 1: 15-17, which I as we have just seen is written with eschatology in mind, not protology. This contention is justified because it is explicitly stated that the end-time has already dawned; it is "these last days" that are in view. We are again looking at the eschatological shift of the ages with the appearance of Christ.
Under the old covenant God spoke in various portions in various ways to the fathers in the prophets. In contrast, he now speaks through a Son. One of the ways God spoke in those days was also through the mediation of angels (see Heb. 2:2). This means, amongst other things, that God's message to Israel was not through a preexistent Son who was an angel, as Jehovah witnesses believe (they teach that Jesus was Michael the archangel). Nor can it mean-as many Trinitarians think-that Jesus was the "the angel of the LORD" who appeared on numerous OT occasions. Nor indeed can it mean, according to later Nicene "orthodoxy," that God spoke to the fathers in Old Testament days through a preexistent Son.
For the opening verse of Hebrews testifies that before the birth of Jesus there was no Son of God as God's messenger to men. It is axiomatic that in the Old Testament God did not speak through the Son. Bluntly then: What emerges from the first two verses of the book of Hebrews is that Jesus was not God's agent to Israel in Old Testament times.
The Son-through whom God has in these end-times spoken-has been "appointed heir of all things" (v.2). This language of the delegation of all authority to Jesus as Son reminds us of the many times Jesus said that his authority was given to him (John 5:22, 26-27). And just when was this authority, this appointment given to him? It was given to him after his resurrection as the reward for his obedience (see Acts 2:36; Phil. 2:9-11; Rom. 1:4; Acts 17:31).
Then comes the statement that through his appointed heir of all things God "made the world" (v.2). The old KJV translation has "through whom He made the worlds." Again, the way this is translated predisposes are tradition-bound minds to run along a well-worn rut. We tend to immediately think of the Genesis creation at the beginning of the universe. But the word used for "worlds" here is the word for "ages" (it is the word from which we get our English word eon/s). The writer is not speaking of the Genesis creation of the heavens and the earth. He is speaking about time periods, epochs. In Jewish thinking there were classically two great ages. The first is the present and evil age. The next will be the Messianic age to come. And Hebrews 1:2 is speaking of the world-or more precisely-the Messianic age to come. He goes on to tell us that through Jesus’ sacrificial death on the cross a new way has been opened up for us to enter the new earth and the new heavens of the future Messianic Kingdom when it dawns.
This "appointed heir of all things" is the agent, the mediator through (dia) whom God has-in prospect-brought about the new Messianic age. The eschatological Son "is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature" (v.3).
Kuschel in his book, Born Before All Time? p.356
The eschatological contexts in the present participles used in these statements (literally: he, being reflection and stamp) make it clear that here there can be no question of any protological statement about preexistence or a statement about the earthly life of the Son, but a statement about the significance of the son for the community in the present.
Again Dunn, in his book Christology in the Making, p.208 writes:
Christ is the Son who is the eschatological climax ("in these last days") to all God's earlier and more fragmentary revelation (v.1-2a); that climatic revelation focuses on his sacrifice for sins, and exaltation to God's right hand (v.3d-e).
In other words, there is not any intimation here in this end-time contexts that Christ is seen as the preexistent God the son, second member of the Trinity. True, this Son now "upholds all things by the word of his power" (v.3b). But it is the new creation-the Messianic age-that is held together by his (authorized and delegated) power.
And in that new age even the Angels will worship the Son, for he has "become as much better than the angels, as he has inherited a more excellent name than they" (v.4). This is what the Father had decreed through the prophets long ago (v.5). If there's any doubt that Christ the Son will be worshiped in that glorious new age the author dispels such a question by promising that "when He [God] again brings the first-born into the world, He says, ‘And let all the angels of God worship him’" (v.6). At the Second Coming the Father's decree will become history. Every knee, whether in heaven or on earth, will pay homage to the Son. Jesus will then "sit on the throne of his glory" (Matt. 25:31).
This worship of Jesus the Son does not make him Almighty God: later in Hebrews 2 Jesus is seen leading his "brethren"-the redeemed church-in the (ultimate) worship of God the Father (Heb. 2: 12-13). This act of (relative) worship of Jesus by the angels will honor the Father, for it is His will they do this (Phil. 2:9-11). Then the ultimate act of Jesus’ own worship of God the Father will be "when he delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when he has abolished all rule and all authority and power" (1 Cor 15:24). When all things are subjected to Christ, including the angelic host, "then the Son himself will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all" (1 Cor 15:28). "As representing the divine majesty of the father, the Messianic title ‘god’ will be applied to Jesus, as it once was to the judges of Israel who foreshadowed the supreme judge of Israel, the Messiah (Ps.82:6).
Yes. I know I confused your traditions of men! but you only posted such a small part of Hebrews chapter one!
oly::sherlock:Paul
No you did not "come to me" because I remember you joining in this thread somewhere as far back as page 17 or 18 and your conversations with others here did not include myself. In fact I was ignoring most of what you wrote because of vulgar commets such as the following which you spoke to Apple7:
And to think you said this somewhere back there also:
Also you have now accused me of "belittling Catholics" when I do not recall doing any such thing in this thread. Please quote the post so that I and everyone else can be assured that you are not a bold faced liar. It seems to me that you cannot even remember from day to day what you posted the day before. Not only do you appear to have a Messiah complex but also a short memory and a tendency toward violence when you do not get your way, O king.
Apple7
New member
Scripture keeps owning you...
Scripture keeps owning you...
ο νικων κληρονομησει ταυτα και εσομαι αυτω θεος και αυτος εσται μοι υιος
o nikōn klēronomēsei tauta kai esomai autō theos kai autos estai moi uios
The one overcoming will inherit all things, and I will be God to him, and he will be the son to Me. (Rev 21.7)
Observe that 'Theos' is in the nominative case, indicating that Jesus is the subject of the verb 'esomai' establishing Him as God.
Further, observe that Jesus establishes that His deity is directly interchangeable with the Father, making the ones overcoming, the sons to Him.
Scripture keeps owning you...
ο νικων κληρονομησει ταυτα και εσομαι αυτω θεος και αυτος εσται μοι υιος
o nikōn klēronomēsei tauta kai esomai autō theos kai autos estai moi uios
The one overcoming will inherit all things, and I will be God to him, and he will be the son to Me. (Rev 21.7)
Observe that 'Theos' is in the nominative case, indicating that Jesus is the subject of the verb 'esomai' establishing Him as God.
Further, observe that Jesus establishes that His deity is directly interchangeable with the Father, making the ones overcoming, the sons to Him.
:readthis:
Have no Idea how... a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ has any thing to do with this thread? :think:
Webster 1828 dict
And
AND, conj.
And is a conjunction, connective or conjoining word. It signifies that a word or part of a sentence is to be added to what precedes. Thus, give me an apple and an orange; that is, give me an apple, add or give in addition to that, an orange. John and Peter and James rode to New York, that is, John rode to New York; add or further, Peter rode to New York; add James rode to New York.
As to... Is 9:6 and Is 43:11-12 Thank for using verses that support my view! Verses that existed before the SON spoke for his/our GOD! Heb 1:1
oly::sherlock:
Paul
Have no Idea how... a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ has any thing to do with this thread? :think:
Webster 1828 dict
And
AND, conj.
And is a conjunction, connective or conjoining word. It signifies that a word or part of a sentence is to be added to what precedes. Thus, give me an apple and an orange; that is, give me an apple, add or give in addition to that, an orange. John and Peter and James rode to New York, that is, John rode to New York; add or further, Peter rode to New York; add James rode to New York.
As to... Is 9:6 and Is 43:11-12 Thank for using verses that support my view! Verses that existed before the SON spoke for his/our GOD! Heb 1:1
oly::sherlock:Paul
Thanks again for allowing me to expose your traditions of men...
In this chapter, when isolated from its context, individual phrases seem to justify some Trinitarian interpretation. These phrases are: "through whom all so He made the world" (v.20); "And let all the Angels of God worship him" (v.6); "But of the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever’" (v.8); "You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands; they will perish, but you will remain…You are the same, and your years will not come to an end" (v.10,12). Read in isolation-out of contexts-these verses seem to say that Jesus is (Jehovah) God. Is this interpretation justified?
Many expositors think not. Kuschel in his book, Born Before All Time? p.356. Is adamant that we do not have to "interpret the Christology of Hebrews in such an extremely ontological terms (in the light of Nicea!) (Ontology is the study of metaphysics dealing with the nature of being.) Kuschel comments that "the majority of exegetes" do not now assume "an extremely developed Hellenistic-syncretistic Christ-myth as a background to Hebrews, nor are dilemmas foisted on the text. Material from the Hellenistic Jewish tradition is thought enough to explaine the Christology of Hebrews." In other words, we are cautioned not to read back into the text what later traditions have taught us.
Although debate has centered around who the actual author of Hebrews is, we note that the his whole literary skill and theological argumentation is indebted to the world of Old Testament ideas. The reason why the book of Hebrews was first written was to encourage believers who were undergoing fierce persecution to remain loyal to Christ. These believers were Jewish converts to Christ and they must be encouraged to see the superiority of Christ over the old Jewish system of things. Christ is superior to the angels (who had mediated the old covenant); he is superior to Abraham, Moses, and Joshua. Christ is superior to the Levitical priesthood and Temple rituals and sacrifices.
This superiority rests in the fact that Jesus is the resurrected Son of God, not that he is Almighty God. If Jesus is the Almighty in human form, then the author could have saved himself a lot of the ink and papyrus. All he needed to do was write that Jesus is superior to all because he is God. End of argument.
But the opening verses of Hebrews allows no such interpretation. They run like this: "God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world (ages)" (v.1-3).
Dunn, in his book Christology in the Making believes Hebrews 1:1-3 is parallel to Colossians 1: 15-17, which I as we have just seen is written with eschatology in mind, not protology. This contention is justified because it is explicitly stated that the end-time has already dawned; it is "these last days" that are in view. We are again looking at the eschatological shift of the ages with the appearance of Christ.
Under the old covenant God spoke in various portions in various ways to the fathers in the prophets. In contrast, he now speaks through a Son. One of the ways God spoke in those days was also through the mediation of angels (see Heb. 2:2). This means, amongst other things, that God's message to Israel was not through a preexistent Son who was an angel, as Jehovah witnesses believe (they teach that Jesus was Michael the archangel). Nor can it mean-as many Trinitarians think-that Jesus was the "the angel of the LORD" who appeared on numerous OT occasions. Nor indeed can it mean, according to later Nicene "orthodoxy," that God spoke to the fathers in Old Testament days through a preexistent Son.
For the opening verse of Hebrews testifies that before the birth of Jesus there was no Son of God as God's messenger to men. It is axiomatic that in the Old Testament God did not speak through the Son. Bluntly then: What emerges from the first two verses of the book of Hebrews is that Jesus was not God's agent to Israel in Old Testament times.
The Son-through whom God has in these end-times spoken-has been "appointed heir of all things" (v.2). This language of the delegation of all authority to Jesus as Son reminds us of the many times Jesus said that his authority was given to him (John 5:22, 26-27). And just when was this authority, this appointment given to him? It was given to him after his resurrection as the reward for his obedience (see Acts 2:36; Phil. 2:9-11; Rom. 1:4; Acts 17:31).
Then comes the statement that through his appointed heir of all things God "made the world" (v.2). The old KJV translation has "through whom He made the worlds." Again, the way this is translated predisposes are tradition-bound minds to run along a well-worn rut. We tend to immediately think of the Genesis creation at the beginning of the universe. But the word used for "worlds" here is the word for "ages" (it is the word from which we get our English word eon/s). The writer is not speaking of the Genesis creation of the heavens and the earth. He is speaking about time periods, epochs. In Jewish thinking there were classically two great ages. The first is the present and evil age. The next will be the Messianic age to come. And Hebrews 1:2 is speaking of the world-or more precisely-the Messianic age to come. He goes on to tell us that through Jesus’ sacrificial death on the cross a new way has been opened up for us to enter the new earth and the new heavens of the future Messianic Kingdom when it dawns.
This "appointed heir of all things" is the agent, the mediator through (dia) whom God has-in prospect-brought about the new Messianic age. The eschatological Son "is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature" (v.3).
Kuschel in his book, Born Before All Time? p.356
The eschatological contexts in the present participles used in these statements (literally: he, being reflection and stamp) make it clear that here there can be no question of any protological statement about preexistence or a statement about the earthly life of the Son, but a statement about the significance of the son for the community in the present.
Again Dunn, in his book Christology in the Making, p.208 writes:
Christ is the Son who is the eschatological climax ("in these last days") to all God's earlier and more fragmentary revelation (v.1-2a); that climatic revelation focuses on his sacrifice for sins, and exaltation to God's right hand (v.3d-e).
In other words, there is not any intimation here in this end-time contexts that Christ is seen as the preexistent God the son, second member of the Trinity. True, this Son now "upholds all things by the word of his power" (v.3b). But it is the new creation-the Messianic age-that is held together by his (authorized and delegated) power.
And in that new age even the Angels will worship the Son, for he has "become as much better than the angels, as he has inherited a more excellent name than they" (v.4). This is what the Father had decreed through the prophets long ago (v.5). If there's any doubt that Christ the Son will be worshiped in that glorious new age the author dispels such a question by promising that "when He [God] again brings the first-born into the world, He says, ‘And let all the angels of God worship him’" (v.6). At the Second Coming the Father's decree will become history. Every knee, whether in heaven or on earth, will pay homage to the Son. Jesus will then "sit on the throne of his glory" (Matt. 25:31).
This worship of Jesus the Son does not make him Almighty God: later in Hebrews 2 Jesus is seen leading his "brethren"-the redeemed church-in the (ultimate) worship of God the Father (Heb. 2: 12-13). This act of (relative) worship of Jesus by the angels will honor the Father, for it is His will they do this (Phil. 2:9-11). Then the ultimate act of Jesus’ own worship of God the Father will be "when he delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when he has abolished all rule and all authority and power" (1 Cor 15:24). When all things are subjected to Christ, including the angelic host, "then the Son himself will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all" (1 Cor 15:28). "As representing the divine majesty of the father, the Messianic title ‘god’ will be applied to Jesus, as it once was to the judges of Israel who foreshadowed the supreme judge of Israel, the Messiah (Ps.82:6).
Yes. I know I confused your traditions of men! but you only posted such a small part of Hebrews chapter one!
Paul
Excellent post, yes, two ages to the man, each in his or her own appointed times. And through Messiah Yeshua the Father acted out those ages, (and thus he is become the Captain-Author of true salvation, who shepherds, leads, and shows us the way to the Father). The "last days" are thus come upon us even from that time until now, each in his or her own appointed times, which appointed times are ordained of the Father, (when a child becomes a son, Galatians 4:1-2).
Really? You actually used this verse? Yep...
Rev 21:5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He *said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true." 6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. 7 "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. :readthis:
Rev 5:1 tells you WHO is on the throne... and who is allowed to approach...! I'm kinda... reading he will Be Jesus' GOD!!!
Idiot... You used a verse that tells you Jesus has a GOD!!
Think before you post... at least against me!!!
oly::sherlock:Paul
Apple7
New member
Heb 1.1
πολυμερως και πολυτροπως παλαι ο θεος λαλησας τοις πατρασιν εν τοις προφηταις επ εσχατου των ημερων τουτων ελαλησεν ημιν εν υιω
POLYMERŌS kai POLYTROPŌS palai ho theos lalēsas tois patrasin en tois prophētais
By many portions and in various forms, God spoke to the fathers in the prophets;
The Book of Hebrews is aptly named for the OT material of which it contains.
Heb 1.1 immediately informs the reader that the One God of the OT has always revealed Himself ‘by many portions’ (polymeros) and ‘in various forms’ (polytropos).
These two Greek terms are only used this one time/ea in the entirety of the Holy Bible, and lexically are defined as ‘One of the constituent parts of a whole; in a context where the whole and its parts are distinguished.’
A clear signal of the ONE Triune Creator God of the Universe.
Apple7
New member
Owned again...
Owned again...
Worship of The Creator is, and always has been, Triune...
Who is the ‘One’ upon the Throne in Rev?
Revelation tells us that The Father sits upon the Throne (Rev 3.21); that Jesus sits upon the Throne (Rev 3.21; 7.17; 22.1 - 3), & that Theos sits upon the Throne (Rev 7.10 – 11; 7.15; 12.5; 14.5; 19.4; 22.1 - 3).
This is the Trinity....and receives all worship...
:cigar::cigar::cigar:
Owned again...
Really? You actually used this verse? Yep...
Rev 21:5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He *said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true." 6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. 7 "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. :readthis:
Rev 5:1 tells you WHO is on the throne... and who is allowed to approach...! I'm kinda... reading he will Be Jesus' GOD!!!
Idiot... You used a verse that tells you Jesus has a GOD!!
Think before you post... at least against me!!!
Paul
Worship of The Creator is, and always has been, Triune...
Who is the ‘One’ upon the Throne in Rev?
Revelation tells us that The Father sits upon the Throne (Rev 3.21); that Jesus sits upon the Throne (Rev 3.21; 7.17; 22.1 - 3), & that Theos sits upon the Throne (Rev 7.10 – 11; 7.15; 12.5; 14.5; 19.4; 22.1 - 3).
This is the Trinity....and receives all worship...
:cigar::cigar::cigar:
Apple7
New member
The ownership keeps coming...
The ownership keeps coming...
In the OT, God The Son was known as:
• El Shaddai ‘God of Mighty Ones’ (Gen 17.1, 28.3, 35.11, 43.14, 48.3, 49.25; Exo 6.3)
• Elohim ‘God’ (Gen 16.13, 22.12, 31.13; Exo 3.6)
• The Malek Elohim ‘The Messenger of God’ (Gen 21.17; 31.11)
• The Malek Yahweh ‘ The Messenger of Yahweh’ (Gen 16.7, 9 - 11; 22.11, 15)
• Debar Yahweh ‘The Word of Yahweh’ (Gen 15.1, 4; Exo 9.20, 21)
The ownership keeps coming...
In the OT, God The Son was known as:
• El Shaddai ‘God of Mighty Ones’ (Gen 17.1, 28.3, 35.11, 43.14, 48.3, 49.25; Exo 6.3)
• Elohim ‘God’ (Gen 16.13, 22.12, 31.13; Exo 3.6)
• The Malek Elohim ‘The Messenger of God’ (Gen 21.17; 31.11)
• The Malek Yahweh ‘ The Messenger of Yahweh’ (Gen 16.7, 9 - 11; 22.11, 15)
• Debar Yahweh ‘The Word of Yahweh’ (Gen 15.1, 4; Exo 9.20, 21)
popsthebuilder
New member
Daqq,
Just because I mentioned that I started die acting posts towards you does not imply that I haven't posted to others prior to that.
I am far from perfect, and still sin to some extent. I also have some trouble with negativity, or criticism at times.
Thanks.
Just because I mentioned that I started die acting posts towards you does not imply that I haven't posted to others prior to that.
I am far from perfect, and still sin to some extent. I also have some trouble with negativity, or criticism at times.
Thanks.
- Status