If God created...

Rosenritter

Rosenritter

New member
Jonahdog said:
Then, when you get sick, pray a lot, see how that works out for you.

In the meantime, the general ignorance of the fundamentalist, "I must believe in a literal Genesis" along with the hatefilled homophobia and love for Trump has become a bit overwhelming. I need to spend my time being constructive, and dealing with ignorance on a personal level.
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So if I understand correctly, your argument against Creation is that Trump cannot be a product of Intelligent Design?
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

New member
Jonahdog said:
Ah, a Gish Gallop.

But if you consider the fact that we are the result of 3.5+/- years of trial and error evolution, naaah not so hard to imagine.

What I cannot imagine anymore is living my life based on a Holy Book several thousand years old, cobbled together from ancient stories told around campfires in which there are few, if any, first hand accounts.
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Perhaps not hard to imagine for someone ignorant enough to think that life is as simplistic as squishing together a lump of play-doh into something that "looks like an elephant!"
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Jonahdog said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heat_wave

2003, not 2004. Nonsense? Nope.

And I am supposed to give credit to someone you heard on the radio, but you cannot recall any specifics. Not likely.
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OK so there was. But don't miss my point. All of a sudden out of nowhere, never mentioned in any media before, the issue is not rising oceans or temperatures. It's heat waves, and there was one 13 years ago (reminds me of the 12 years since the last destructive 'cane)! I'm frozen with fear! That's modern science. Dishonest. Playing the market. Feeling where the wind is blowing.

The hemoglobin item is NOT just on radio; it happened to be the topic that day on a program that has substantial knock downs of evolution each day. The hemoglobin material can be found in in any medical book. You simply have to be bright enough to ask: how could this just happen correctly?

Try the fact of the ability of the mother kangaroo to sense that there is not enough water during a season, and put a pregnancy on pause for 2 years? How does that happen?

How does a joey, newborn, know NOT to use its huge hind legs to get up in the sack, going too far and using them too much, too awkwardly to slide in? How does that just happen?

x a million

We have blue whales today because the first moment it was in the ocean, the sperm of the 1st was protected correctly from the temperature of the ocean, by correctly routed heating capillaries around its testicles.
 
S

Stuu

New member
6days said:
Example...
Our heart beats 100,000 times a day.
Our body has about 2500 KM of blood vessels. Can you imagine?
The heart sends oxygen and nutrients through all those blood vessels to our extremities .... and at the same time is removing waste products such as carbon dioxide.
There are some amazing engineering feats happening
1. There are actually two circuits of blood vessels.
a) The first circuit of blood vessels takes blood from the body to the lungs, so oxygen can be added, and carbon dioxide removed.
b) The second circuit takes the oxygen rich blood out to all your body parts.
But how does one heart pump in 2 different directions? This is accomplished because our hearts basically is two pumps within one. <b>It is very cool how this happens in the womb</b>, but basically there is a tube that gets kinked forming two compartments that end up functioning as two separate pumps.
2. Why doesn't the friction of a beating heart cause it to over heat? The heart is inside a 2 layered sac, the pericardium. The outer sac attaches to our diaphragm...the inner sac attaches to the heart. Inside this two layered sac is a special lubricant. Without that lubricant our heart would overheat... and we would die.
3. This is so cool..... Our hearts all have a built in pacemaker. Our heart is run by a different type of system than the rest of our body. We become tired and stop... Our senses can get tired or overwhelmed and function less efficiently (for example a putrid smell seems less offensive after a few minutes). Our hearts are not allowed that luxury though of resting. on the upper right hand side of our hearts is a cluster of cells. These cells send an electrical impulse down through the heart, stimulating the muscle. That impulse them reaches a cluster of cells at the bottom of the heart causing it to trigger a impulse upwards... (your heart has just beat once... 99,999 more times in the next 24 hours)
What I think is cool about that system, is it basically operates independently from the brain. However... the brain can overide that 'cruise control'. For example during rigorous exercise you need more blood pumping... more adrenaline etc, The brain then directly controls the heart rate.
What an amazing system!
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Indeed it is an amazing system, and of course it contains far more complexity than can be described in a few paragraphs, or indeed entire medical textbooks on the circulatory system.

What an amazing God!
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You are also claiming this? On what basis?

Stuart
 
S

Stuu

New member
6days said:
Yes!!!
But, even if we look at a 'simple' organism... One of the simplest known...It does not contain trillions of cells, but it does contain complexity and sophistication beyond what could ever happen by chance, except in fairy tales. scientists decided to model the genome of one of the simplest microbes. It turns out though, that the genome is anything but simple. There are many biological robots working within the cell of every known organism. Take a look at the simplified drawing on this site, giving us a slight glimpse at the complexity and organization.
http://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...e-in-the-world-you-need-128-computers/260198/
In order to just PARTIALLY simulate this bacteria..."It took a cluster of 128 computers running for 9 to 10 hours to actually generate the data on the 25 categories of molecules that are involved in the cell's lifecycle processes."
The article goes on to say.... "On the other hand, the depth and breadth of cellular complexity has turned out to be nearly unbelievable...."
Nearly unbelievable... except to those who believe that our God is a God of wonders.
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Well, I think this is an improvement for you, 6days. You have made a model that sets a minimum computing power for your god. You god must have more than the power of '128 computers running for 9 to 10 hours'. Of course, your god could have less computing power if it took longer to work everything out.

"...a God of wonders" is not a technology term with which I am familiar.

Stuart
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
I came across a completely new (to me) objection to evolution this week in the realm of mutations. I hadn't realized that the claim of uniformitarians was that mutation was actually 'intelligent' and helpful to a species. If previous descriptions of adaption meant mutation, then I guess I missed that paragraph; please correct me. However, the essay was saying that mutation as science defines it are actually the useless features that can happen occasionally like albinism.

Does evolution have a lot invested in mutations improving species?
 
J

Jonahdog

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Interplanner said:
I came across a completely new (to me) objection to evolution this week in the realm of mutations. I hadn't realized that the claim of uniformitarians was that mutation was actually 'intelligent' and helpful to a species. If previous descriptions of adaption meant mutation, then I guess I missed that paragraph; please correct me. However, the essay was saying that mutation as science defines it are actually the useless features that can happen occasionally like albinism.

Does evolution have a lot invested in mutations improving species?
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Where did you find this "completely new objection"? Citation please.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Just search Answers Research Journal.




Will China become anti-evolutionary?
Today's SSS program was 20 minutes on the 6000sk subterranean rapid deposit in China that is being unearthed that is crammed with hundreds of kinds of dinosaurs and therapods (those which are similar to birds) along with virtually modern creatures. While I only heard the concluding minutes, there were two main thrusts: 1, that the deposit is sedimentary slurry trapping many creatures thought to be millions old, preserved well enough to study internal organs and stomach contents. The find supports massive catastrophic slurry. 2, that the time system of conventional evolution will be found to be extremely flawed. By 'kinds' of creatures, he didn't mean individual examples, which are probably in the millions, but species.
 
J

Jonahdog

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Banned
Interplanner said:
Just search Answers Research Journal.




Will China become anti-evolutionary?
Today's SSS program was 20 minutes on the 6000sk subterranean rapid deposit in China that is being unearthed that is crammed with hundreds of kinds of dinosaurs and therapods (those which are similar to birds) along with virtually modern creatures. While I only heard the concluding minutes, there were two main thrusts: 1, that the deposit is sedimentary slurry trapping many creatures thought to be millions old, preserved well enough to study internal organs and stomach contents. The find supports massive catastrophic slurry. 2, that the time system of conventional evolution will be found to be extremely flawed. By 'kinds' of creatures, he didn't mean individual examples, which are probably in the millions, but species.
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Answers Research Journal is a 3 word oxymoron
 
S

Stuu

New member
6days said:
Hey Stuu
My belief in our amazing God is based on evidence and personal experience.
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I'm sure it is. But you seem to want to be convincing.

I wouldn't expect you to be convinced by my personal experience. Is your evidence unambiguous? Does it disprove the actions of other gods?

Stuart
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Stuu said:
And how does that show unambiguously there was a god involved, and if there was then which god did it, and how does 'the evidence' show it was that particular god?

Stuart
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I guess you won't believe until it's too late for you.

Philippians 2:10, 11
 
6days

6days

New member
Stuu said:
I wouldn't expect you to be convinced by my personal experience.
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No, but our personal experience helps shape our worldview. Why don't you share your personal experience Stuu?


Stuu said:
Is your evidence unambiguous?
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Yes, I certainly think so! I realize you might think the evidence is unambiguous also.

Stuu said:
Does it disprove the actions of other gods?
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What other gods? There are many... some people have their career as their god. Others have booze, or sports, or a hobby as their god. I believe in the Creator God of the Bible.
 
S

Stuu

New member
6days said:
No, but our personal experience helps shape our worldview. Why don't you share your personal experience Stuu?
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I think I have, quite extensively. Do you actually read what others post?

Yes, I certainly think so! I realize you might think the evidence is unambiguous also.

What other gods? There are many... some people have their career as their god. Others have booze, or sports, or a hobby as their god. I believe in the Creator God of the Bible.
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So there you go. How does the evidence show you that your personal experience of a god is not down to booze? Or some other effect on your brain?

For the 'evidence' to be unambiguous, it needs to show that only a 'Creator God of the Bible' could produce the effects you claim.

Stuart
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

New member
Stuu said:
I think I have, quite extensively. Do you actually read what others post?


So there you go. How does the evidence show you that your personal experience of a god is not down to booze? Or some other effect on your brain?

For the 'evidence' to be unambiguous, it needs to show that only a 'Creator God of the Bible' could produce the effects you claim.

Stuart
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What are you trying to prove exactly? Proving the necessity of a Creator for a Creation is a first step. Proving who that Creator is a different step, and it's pretty pointless to go there when someone's arguing that irreducibly complex systems sprung into existence from the VOID on their own.

Just for clarification, are you accepting that there is a Creator, and asking for proof as to who that Creator is? Or are you still arguing the first point?
 
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