Onus Probandi, Jonah.
You made the claim that the universe is billions of years old, now give evidence that supports your assertion. That's how discussion works, Jonah, especially on TOL.
If you can't do that, then you shouldn't be on this forum.
Jonah, you said:
You have to show that it is not evidence of origins, even though it gives a fairly detailed history of the origin of the universe.
Please provide evidence of this claim.
Please provide this "real world evidence" that you say supports each of your claims of "biologic evolution," "an earth billions of years old," "a universe even older," and "no need for a deity." In other words, provide evidence for each of those claims.
Just because it isn't clear to you doesn't mean that it's not clear at all.
When is the last time you read the Bible, cover to cover?
I can sum up in four words the entirety of the plot of the Bible.
Creation, Rebellion, Reconciliation, Reward.
Also, are you claiming that an all powerful God could not hide things for His creation to find, to discover, to learn?
Richard Dawkins, in an interview with Ben Stein, was asked if he were to meet God, face to face, what would he say to Him. Here's excerpt, from "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed":
Ben Stein: What if after you died you ran into God, and he says, what have you been doing, Richard? I mean what have you been doing? I've been trying to be nice to you. I gave you a multi-million dollar paycheck, over and over again with your book, and look what you did.
Richard Dawkins: Bertrand Russell had that point put to him, and he said something like: sir, why did you take such pains to hide yourself?
Ben Stein: [voice over] But, if the Intelligent Design people are right, he isn't hidden. We may even be able to encounter God through science, if we have the freedom to go there. What could be more intriguing than that? |
I imagine God's response to Bertrand's question to Him would be something like this:
"The heavens declare My Glory; And the firmament shows My handiwork. Day unto day utters speech, And night unto night reveals knowledge.There is no speech nor language Where their voice is not heard. Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their words to the end of the world. In them I have set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, And rejoices like a strong man to run its race. Its rising is from one end of heaven, And its circuit to the other end; And there is nothing hidden from its heat."
Or maybe something like this:
"I have searched you and known you, I know your sitting down and your rising up; I understand your thought afar off. I comprehend your path and your lying down, And I am acquainted with all your ways. For there is not a word on your tongue, But behold I, YHWH, know it altogether. I have hedged you behind and before, And laid My hand upon you. Such knowledge is too wonderful for you; It is high, you cannot attain it. Where can you go from My Spirit? Or where can you flee from My presence? If you ascend into heaven, I am there; If you make your bed in hell, behold, I am there. If you take the wings of the morning, And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, Even there My hand shall lead you, And My right hand shall hold you. If you say, “Surely the darkness shall fall on me,” Even the night shall be light about you; Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from Me, But the night shines as the day; The darkness and the light are both alike to Me. I formed your inward parts; I covered you in your mother’s womb. You were fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are My works, And that your soul knows very well. Your frame was not hidden from Me, When you were made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. My eyes saw your substance, being yet unformed. And in My book they all were written, The days fashioned for you, When as yet there were none of them."
