I wonder if Kayla preached to the monsters (ISIS) w/ effect?

Morpheus

Morpheus

New member
Desert Reign said:
You can run but you can't hide. Since you are into noting things, let it be noted that you yourself read the article and how it stated that how the injured Syrians were allowed into the country was a bit of a mystery. And you are trying to convince yourself that the government of Israel had nothing to do with it. You're funny. Your despicable prejudices have been uncovered by the facts.



But you can't ignore the evidence against your anti-Israel hyperbole.
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Yet you would rather ignore:
Principles of the Just War

A just war can only be waged as a last resort. All non-violent options must be exhausted before the use of force can be justified.

A war is just only if it is waged by a legitimate authority. Even just causes cannot be served by actions taken by individuals or groups who do not constitute an authority sanctioned by whatever the society and outsiders to the society deem legitimate.

A just war can only be fought to redress a wrong suffered. For example, self-defense against an armed attack is always considered to be a just cause (although the justice of the cause is not sufficient--see point #4). Further, a just war can only be fought with "right" intentions: the only permissible objective of a just war is to redress the injury.

A war can only be just if it is fought with a reasonable chance of success. Deaths and injury incurred in a hopeless cause are not morally justifiable.

The ultimate goal of a just war is to re-establish peace. More specifically, the peace established after the war must be preferable to the peace that would have prevailed if the war had not been fought.

The violence used in the war must be proportional to the injury suffered. States are prohibited from using force not necessary to attain the limited objective of addressing the injury suffered.

The weapons used in war must discriminate between combatants and non-combatants. Civilians are never permissible targets of war, and every effort must be taken to avoid killing civilians. The deaths of civilians are justified only if they are unavoidable victims of a deliberate attack on a military target.


Additional Readings:

Russell Shaw, "A just pre-emptive attack? Morality of U.S. strike option on Iran debated," Catholic Online, 3 May 2006

Peter Steinfels, "The Brutality of War, and the Innocents Lost in the Crossfire," New York Times, 20 November 2004

Garry Wills, "What Is a Just War?," New York Review of Books, Volume 51, Number 18, November 18, 2004, review of Arguing About War by Michael Walzer
Yale University Press, 208 pp.

George Weigel, "Moral Clarity in a Time of War," First Things, December 2002

Bishop Wilton D. Gregory, United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, Office of Social Development & World Peace, Letter to President Bush on Iraq, September 13, 2002

Mark Edward DeForrest , Gonzaga University, "JUST WAR THEORY AND THE RECENT U.S. AIR STRIKES AGAINST IRAQ"

MONA FIXDAL, Department of Political Science, University of Oslo, and DAN SMITH, International Peace Research Institute, Oslo, "Humanitarian Intervention and Just War," Mershon International Studies Review (1998) 42, 283-312

The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy, "Just War Theory"

National Public Radio, "A Just War? Asking the Age-Old Question about the Pursuit of Terrorism," 25 January 2002

J. Bryan Hehir, "What Can Be Done? What Should Be Done?" AMERICA for Oct. 8, 2001

National Conference of Catholic Bishops, "The Church's Teaching on War and Peace," 17 November 1993

Kathryn Jean Lopez, "Justice in War: Just-war theory," National Review Online, 15 October 2001

The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, "Just War Tradition and the New War on Terrorism," 5 October 2001

Richard Falk, "Defining a Just War," The Nation, 29 October 2001

Howard Zinn, "A Just Cause, Not a Just War," The Progressive

Peter Steinfels, "Questioning the Morality of Military Attacks on Civilians," New York Time, 6 April 2002

link
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Israel, in collusion with the U.S., has a long history of disproportional attacks primarily directed at civilian neighborhoods, hospitals and schools, with no intention of ever seeking a true peaceful solution. If the world turned its head for one day Israel's Zionist government would gladly vaporize all Palestinians. As it is they do all they can (with U.S. help) to prevent a war crimes tribunal for their actions. I said before that it doesn't,t take a genius to recognize their government's atrocities; what I refrained from saying was that it takes an idiot, or a bigot, to ignore it.

A few acts of kindness, especially when called for by others, do not justify atrocities. Typically they are calculated as public relations moves, especially when being investigated for things like war crimes. "Look, we're not really bad guys."
 
Nick M

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Morpheus said:
The fact she wasn't released is irrelevant.
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Just a hunch, but her family does not agree with you. For all I know, she told them they had to change their ways to be accepted by God. You know, the good news of circumcision. Which is of no effect today.

We don't know what she said, but we know those animals executed her.
 
Morpheus

Morpheus

New member
Nick M said:
Just a hunch, but her family does not agree with you. For all I know, she told them they had to change their ways to be accepted by God. You know, the good news of circumcision. Which is of no effect today.

We don't know what she said, but we know those animals executed her.
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Hunches and "don't know what she said". Do you have a point outside of you have no idea what you're talking about?
 
Morpheus

Morpheus

New member
Nick M said:
Muslims following the letter of the law of islam.
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Oh, so you don't know specifically. You're just generalizing. In fact, in the context of this thread, simply limiting your answer to ISIS would have been generalizing. To tell the truth you have no idea whether her captivity might have had some affect on some individuals who came into contact with her, or if it will change the future direction of some of their lives. We have plenty of Biblical and historical examples of similar occurances where God allowed his people to be abused and martyred in order to reach some of their abusers and captors, as well as leaving a witness that reaches others. Like I stated before, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not well tolerated.

I'm not making you look bad; I'm just holding up the mirror.
 
Desert Reign

Desert Reign

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Morpheus said:
Some additional Iinks related to war crimes investigations of Israel.


NY Times

The Guardian

Reuters
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So what? Who instigated these suits? The PA. Why? Because they couldn't negotiate their way out of a paper bag. They were offered many solutions but refused every one of them. There is only one thing they want: to see Israel wiped off the map. And then that is only so that they can carry on fighting each other till not one is left. In the name of the religion of peace. And you also want that to happen because for some reason you think the world would be a better place without Israel and you would be happier if Jews everywhere were persecuted continually and had nowhere to hide because you think Jews are the ideal people to bear the pain and suffering of humanity.

And when you convince yourself in your idealistic world that Israel is only being subjected to normal standards of morality, your lop-sided failure to condemn and punish those who constantly attack Israel's civilians, means only one thing - that your desire is to see the nation of Israel defenceless.

All their allegations at the ICC are only political posturing. It is just part and parcel with their silly motions at the UN expecting the nations to guarantee them a solution that would result in Israel having the indefensible borders they started with in 67. That is what you want.
 
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B

bybee

New member
Desert Reign said:
So what? Who instigated these suits? The PA. Why? Because they couldn't negotiate their way out of a paper bag. They were offered many solutions but refused every one of them. There is only one thing they want: to see Israel wiped off the map. And then that is only so that they can carry on fighting each other till not one is left. In the name of the religion of peace. And you also want that to happen because for some reason you think the world would be a better place without Israel and you would be happier if Jews everywhere were persecuted continually and had nowhere to hide because you think Jews are the ideal people to bear the pain and suffering of humanity.

And when you convince yourself in your idealistic world that Israel is only being subjected to normal standards of morality, your flop-sided ailure to condemn and punish those who constantly attack Israel's civilians, means only one thing - that your desire is to see the nation of Israel defenceless.

All their allegations at the ICC are only political posturing. It is just part and parcel with their silly motions at the UN expecting the nations to guarantee them a solution that would result in Israel having the indefensible borders they started with in 67. That is what you want.
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Yup!
 
Morpheus

Morpheus

New member
Desert Reign said:
So what? Who instigated these suits? The PA. Why? Because they couldn't negotiate their way out of a paper bag. They were offered many solutions but refused every one of them. There is only one thing they want: to see Israel wiped off the map. And then that is only so that they can carry on fighting each other till not one is left. In the name of the religion of peace. And you also want that to happen because for some reason you think the world would be a better place without Israel and you would be happier if Jews everywhere were persecuted continually and had nowhere to hide because you think Jews are the ideal people to bear the pain and suffering of humanity.

And when you convince yourself in your idealistic world that Israel is only being subjected to normal standards of morality, your lop-sided failure to condemn and punish those who constantly attack Israel's civilians, means only one thing - that your desire is to see the nation of Israel defenceless.

All their allegations at the ICC are only political posturing. It is just part and parcel with their silly motions at the UN expecting the nations to guarantee them a solution that would result in Israel having the indefensible borders they started with in 67. That is what you want.
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The fact she hat the PA initiated this particular action at the Hague is irrelevant. The fact that the Hague accepted the case, under threat from Israel, is what is important. Israel has been dodging war crimes charges for decades with our help, and lesser judgments against them at the UN have been constantly ignored. To date Israel and the US have never negotiated in good faith. Much like Congressional politicking, they always insert poison pills. Repeatedly ordered to stop the building of settlements, primarily on the West Bank, The Israeli government continues to subsidize construction and give financial breaks to settlers, supplanting Palestinians in the process, in order to keep moving boundaries, annexing the land. At this time I will not elaborate on the daily hardships placed on the Palestinians at the hands of Israel by virtue of the wall and withholding Palestinian tax revenues.

Then when violence occurs (the initiation is never clear) Israel sweeps in with highly disproportionate force, destroying residential communities, schools and hospitals. There are many verified reports of them intentionally targeting these sites knowing they are occupied by women and children, not to speak of known UN shelters being specifically targeted.

You seem concerned about Israel's ability to defend itself. Yet Israel already has one of the premier defense capabilities on earth. Over three billion dollars annually in military aid from the U.S. has "given" them everything including nukes. Palestine has a few thousand small, unguided missiles and kalashnakovs for their arsenal. Because of their relationship with the U.S. Israel has been emboldened to threaten their neighbors with impunity, including the repeated threat to bomb facilities in Iran; and they have already flown missions elsewhere, including attacking our ships.

There is a big difference between defense and imperialist aggression. There is a big difference between defense and ethnic cleansing. I have no problem with Israel defending itself; it's when they go well beyond defense that I take issue.


Settlements 101

BBC/Gaza UN Shelter Attack

Reuters/Israel Withholds Palestinian Funds After UN Vote
 
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