beloved57
Well-known member
But the others don't see the inconsistency in believing that Christ would tell them He loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25 I never knew you !
I NEVER KNEW YOU
- Thread starter OCTOBER23
- Start date
But the others don't see the inconsistency in believing that Christ would tell them He loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25 I never knew you !
Nanja
Well-known member
Seeing that inconsistency would only be possible if they were Given to
understand that it's only His Church Christ gave His Life for, and not all of humanity.
~~~~~
beloved57
Well-known member
Exactly ! Those He did die for specifically, His Sheep/Church, He said that He knows them ! Jn 10:14-15
I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
He would be lying if He turned around and told any of them He lay down His Life for, I never knew you !
Nanja
Well-known member
Good point! Yes, He would!
So we can know that not all of mankind are His Sheep.
For scripture testifies to the fact that many are not:
John 10:26
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep,
as I said unto you.
But Christ tasted death for every one of His Sheep,
and then He rose again as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep:
Heb. 13:20
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus,
that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant
~~~~~
Derf
Well-known member
Yes
OCTOBER23
New member
ttruscott said,
Thus those who accepted HIS deity on faith alone with no proof were accepted as HIS family, HIS church, His sheep and loved while
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ttruscott, There are hundreds of SCRIPTUAL AND HISTORIC PROOFS
THAT BACK UP JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY.
Thus those who accepted HIS deity on faith alone with no proof were accepted as HIS family, HIS church, His sheep and loved while
------------------------------------------------------------------
ttruscott, There are hundreds of SCRIPTUAL AND HISTORIC PROOFS
THAT BACK UP JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY.
beloved57
Well-known member
What scripture do you have that states that ?
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
You know what is so telling? The answer to this question is simplicity itself, to anybody who understands scripture. Yet, in this thread, the simple answer has only been brushed up against by one person, and you are, most all, just vainly arguing, apparently clueless as to simple scripture truth! I won't answer, as I'd like to see how far this thread goes in a clueless fashion, and answering the question would have no impact, anyway, if so many who are claiming Christ have, thus far, actually rejected the gospel they've heard thousands of times.
It would be fascinating to see how far this thread goes, without a clear, simple answer, fascinating to see how spiritually dead this forum really is, that has no consensus on what even salvation is. Incredible, but no surprise, really. Many days, one has to, as if, dig in a landfill, to find anything even spiritually edifying in the conversations. Appalling this thread can go for pages, without any basic understanding of true Christian faith. Just appalling. So how many of you can't answer things a real Christian child could understand?
Matthew 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
It would be fascinating to see how far this thread goes, without a clear, simple answer, fascinating to see how spiritually dead this forum really is, that has no consensus on what even salvation is. Incredible, but no surprise, really. Many days, one has to, as if, dig in a landfill, to find anything even spiritually edifying in the conversations. Appalling this thread can go for pages, without any basic understanding of true Christian faith. Just appalling. So how many of you can't answer things a real Christian child could understand?
Matthew 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
beloved57
Well-known member
Also Nanja, it would be inconsistent for Christ to say of them He died for this Matt 7:23
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
How could He say that to them that never had iniquity imputed to them ? Are not those Christ died these blessed ones ? Ps 32:2
Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
Num 23:21
He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the Lord his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.
Remember, those Christ died for, He has already been bruised for their what ? Isa 53:5
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Nanja
Well-known member
Right, He couldn't, because the People Christ died for, were not only foreknown of God, Rom. 8:29,
but also their sins were imputed to Him, their Covenant Head and Surety Heb 7:22, before the
foundation of the world for Him to die for: The "many" Mat. 26:28 Father had given the Son John 6:37-39.
So the sins of Christ's Sheep were charged to Christ instead of them, just as they were Chosen in Christ
and Predestinated to the adoption of Sons; to have forgiveness / remission of sins Eph. 1:3-7.
He made reconciliation for their iniquity Dan. 9:24, satisfying God's Law and Justice impeccably on their behalf !
1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God:
therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
~~~~~
Who are His sheep?
beloved57
Well-known member
There you go!
Who are His sheep?
yes.
Bradley D
Well-known member
There are few yes or no answers in theology. I just see it as a trick to further ones view.
beloved57
Well-known member
Cop out !
Bradley D
Well-known member
Interesting theological answer. Never saw that phrase in Calvin's writings I've read.
beloved57
Well-known member
Continue cop out !
Derf
Well-known member
That goes beyond "yes or no". This is the post I was responding to:
This is what you wrote to Chrysostom:
And that was after Chrys had given you a "yes" answer with some reasoning attached.beloved57 said:
So apparently you're not just looking for just a "simple yes or no", nor will you accept a reason for the yes or no. The only thing you seem to be happy with is someone who agrees with you. So it seems like what you are looking for is an argument--something to divide over. Christ said he came to bring not peace, but division ("a sword")--but not within his church. In his church he prayed for oneness/unity--John 17:21-22. This free will debate is a valid debate, but if we make our own brand of doctrine an idol (on either side), is it not defeating the cause Christ prayed for? For a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. And we are called to gently guide those that are not correct back to the truth--Gal 6:1.
Now, if Christ PRAYED for a certain thing (unity in John 17:21-22), surely that must be one place where His decreed will and His revealed will are both the same, for if He asks for it, and He and His father are one, surely the Father will grant that request, if prayer is at all effective. If the Father did not grant that request, meaning His decreed will was that the church would NOT be one, then it shows that there really is no point to prayer at all, for not even Jesus could get a prayer answered by His Father. And if, as some say, prayer is not meant to change God's mind, since He already has decided how he's going to act from all eternity past, but instead it is meant to change US when we prayer, then Jesus, who is God and therefore cannot change, was praying a futile and ineffectual prayer!
But, if Jesus prayed for unity and actually expected His Father to answer that prayer in the affirmative, then we who are believers should not be starting arguments just for the sake of argumentation. (Full confession, though--I've been known to do the same, to my shame.:mmph
Not only that, but John 17:22 says that Christ stated that He has already given us (His church) the glory God gave Him, "that they may be one, even as we are one:". So if Jesus has already given us the glory God gave Him, and that glory is effective in doing what He purposed it to do--making us one--then by your divisive spirit, you are doing the very thing Christ prayed would not be the case.
So, after all that, do you want a simple yes or no, or not? Or do you want to fight?
You decide. But here's my answer to your question--the not so simple answer, with scripture (above) to back it up. Is it possible for us to thwart the will of God, that even to those He died for He might say later on, I never knew you? Yes. But it grieves His heart to do so.
beloved57
Well-known member
That goes beyond "yes or no". This is the post I was responding to:
This is what you wrote to Chrysostom:
And that was after Chrys had given you a "yes" answer with some reasoning attached.
So apparently you're not just looking for just a "simple yes or no", nor will you accept a reason for the yes or no. The only thing you seem to be happy with is someone who agrees with you. So it seems like what you are looking for is an argument--something to divide over. Christ said he came to bring not peace, but division ("a sword")--but not within his church. In his church he prayed for oneness/unity--John 17:21-22. This free will debate is a valid debate, but if we make our own brand of doctrine an idol (on either side), is it not defeating the cause Christ prayed for? For a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. And we are called to gently guide those that are not correct back to the truth--Gal 6:1.
Now, if Christ PRAYED for a certain thing (unity in John 17:21-22), surely that must be one place where His decreed will and His revealed will are both the same, for if He asks for it, and He and His father are one, surely the Father will grant that request, if prayer is at all effective. If the Father did not grant that request, meaning His decreed will was that the church would NOT be one, then it shows that there really is no point to prayer at all, for not even Jesus could get a prayer answered by His Father. And if, as some say, prayer is not meant to change God's mind, since He already has decided how he's going to act from all eternity past, but instead it is meant to change US when we prayer, then Jesus, who is God and therefore cannot change, was praying a futile and ineffectual prayer!
But, if Jesus prayed for unity and actually expected His Father to answer that prayer in the affirmative, then we who are believers should not be starting arguments just for the sake of argumentation. (Full confession, though--I've been known to do the same, to my shame.:mmph
Not only that, but John 17:22 says that Christ stated that He has already given us (His church) the glory God gave Him, "that they may be one, even as we are one:". So if Jesus has already given us the glory God gave Him, and that glory is effective in doing what He purposed it to do--making us one--then by your divisive spirit, you are doing the very thing Christ prayed would not be the case.
So, after all that, do you want a simple yes or no, or not? Or do you want to fight?
You decide. But here's my answer to your question--the not so simple answer, with scripture (above) to back it up. Is it possible for us to thwart the will of God, that even to those He died for He might say later on, I never knew you? Yes. But it grieves His heart to do so.
Do you want to answer the question with a yes or no ?