ECT I AM RIGHT

[yeshuaslavejeff]

'shopping' is another good example...... so few recognize the truth at all, they don't know when shopping is sinful, and when it is not sinful.
they probably never think about it,
and if it's ever discussed in 'chruch', it's with excuses instead of repentance.

....
Many so called "saved and true Christians" don't even know what the sin is, thus remain in sin. Pro-military position is good case.

blessings.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

because it seem so important for you to have assurance of salvation.

From my perspective, Jesus was teaching assurance of salvation. His gift is eternal from the moment it is accepted. John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

John 11:26 "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die."

It's important for people to become as little children but little children can be deceived. Jesus could not be deceived and the blessing of understanding what he taught is the perfect antidote to Satan's lies. John also wrote so that the little children in the Lord would not be deceived.

So I don't mean to in any way diminish what you are saying but it seems to me that saying that eternal security is impossible is working against our ministry and not building people up on Christ.

Jesus says over and over to be faithful to Him until the end. If we strive to be obedient to His teachings, we have nothing to worry about our salvation.

Yes, the key is in Jesus teachings. If we make ourselves faithful students of Jesus we will eventually notice that he says he's one with the Father and that that he wants us to be one with him as he's one with the Father, that we may share the glory that they share. And this is important because the servant abides not forever but the son abides forever. Once we understand what he's teaching we will no longer be in danger of losing our salvation.

Being faithful to Jesus is the assurance of salvation.

If you love Jesus it follows that you will be faithful to him. Isn't that what he taught us?

Many people don't know why God loves them and don't know why Jesus loves them, or why they love God, Jesus or any brothers or sisters. They might be deceived into believing a lie and they might display a lack of love as a symptom of their lack of insight.

 

[meshak]

John 11:26 "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die."

That is assurance of faithful ones. Jesus is the one will determine who is faithful or not.

It's important for people to become as little children but little children can be deceived. Jesus could not be deceived and the blessing of understanding what he taught is the perfect antidote to Satan's lies. John also wrote so that the little children in the Lord would not be deceived.

Ok

So I don't mean to in any way diminish what you are saying but it seems to me that saying that eternal security is impossible is working against our ministry and not building people up on Christ.

My point is that if we are true to Jesus until the end. we have no worries.

Yes, the key is in Jesus teachings. If we make ourselves faithful students of Jesus we will eventually notice that he says he's one with the Father and that that he wants us to be one with him as he's one with the Father, that we may share the glory that they share. And this is important because the servant abides not forever but the son abides forever. Once we understand what he's teaching we will no longer be in danger of losing our salvation.

OK

If you love Jesus it follows that you will be faithful to him. Isn't that what he taught us?

that's what I have been saying. It seems that you are not reading my threads and posts much.

Many people don't know why God loves them and don't know why Jesus loves them, or why they love God, Jesus or any brothers or sisters. They might be deceived into believing a lie and they might display a lack of love as a symptom of their lack of insight.

If they are striving to be faithful to Jesus, that is all that matters.

Being faithful to Jesus is the key for loving God and one another.

this is the main theme of my messages.

blessings.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

That is assurance of faithful ones. Jesus is the one will determine who is faithful or not.

Do you mean Jesus will decide or Jesus will ascertain who is faithful?

My point is that if we are true to Jesus until the end. we have no worries.

Yes that is true but we need to love Jesus and the Father to keep his commandments and that love happens for a reason, a reason that can be found in the context of Jesus' life and teachings.

If you love Jesus it follows that you will be faithful to him. Isn't that what he taught us?

that's what I have been saying. It seems that you are not reading my threads and posts much.

I'm sorry for being annoying but my point for establishing our agreement on this point was to make a further point; that we all need a reason to love Jesus, and he gives us the reason we are loved, the reason why must know we are loved and the reason why we love one another. This keeps us from being deceived and that's what we all want.

If they are striving to be faithful to Jesus, that is all that matters.

Without a reason for the striving a person could get lost and confused.

Being faithful to Jesus is the key for loving God and one another.

this is the main theme of my messages.

blessings.

You mean being faithful generates love? How's one going to find motivation to be faithful enough to get the love they need?

When I look for the source of love I find it in a Father's infinite patience and mercy. I find him telling me that we are all God's offspring made in his image, precious and worthy of love.

Blessings,

1PM

 

[meshak]

Do you mean Jesus will decide or Jesus will ascertain who is faithful?

Jesus will judge if we are faithful on judgment day. Most of us believer we are faithful but it is not so.

I'm sorry for being annoying but my point for establishing our agreement on this point was to make a further point; that we all need a reason to love Jesus, and he gives us the reason we are loved, the reason why must know we are loved and the reason why we love one another. This keeps us from being deceived and that's what we all want.

The reason is simple, God wants us to love one another. We don't know what true love is. that's why Father sent His Son to teach us how to love God and one another. We have our own worldly love, But God's love is spiritual. We need to know God's standared of love.

Without a reason for the striving a person could get lost and confused.

See the above. You need to know the Bible's whole context. God want us to know how to love God and one another. When we don't know how to do it, we commit sin. That's what Bible is all about.

In OT, His people were so suborn that they kept back to their own selfishness as a whole. that's why Father sent us Jesus to teach us how to do it, not compromising way of Moses law. Jesus' taught us original God's teachings. That's what Jesus meant when He said He fulfilled the law. Remember Jesus changed eye for eye to love your enemy? He updated many violent law and practice.

You mean being faithful generates love? How's one going to find motivation to be faithful enough to get the love they need?

Read the above.

When I look for the source of love I find it in a Father's infinite patience and mercy. I find him telling me that we are all God's offspring made in his image, precious and worthy of love.

Read the above.

Blessings,

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Jesus will judge if we are faithful on judgment day. Most of us believer we are faithful but it is not so.

OK

The reason is simple, God wants us to love one another.

You are saying the reason to love each other is that God wants us to love each other? I don't think this is the reason given. The reason given is in Luke 7:47.

We don't know what true love is.

Little children know, though, isn't that why we are told to become like little children again?

that's why Father sent His Son to teach us how to love God and one another.

He reminds us through advice like becoming like little children and warning us against love with hypocrisy.

We have our own worldly love, But God's love is spiritual. We need to know God's standared of love.

God's standard is Matthew 7:12

See the above. You need to know the Bible's whole context. God want us to know how to love God and one another. When we don't know how to do it, we commit sin. That's what Bible is all about.

When we don't believe we owe each other our love, or we love with hypocrisy we sin.

In OT, His people were so suborn that they kept back to their own selfishness as a whole.

I agree. They didn't act like they saw God as their Father. He was up there, and they were worms down below, not His children. It's a dog's life to think that way.

that's why Father sent us Jesus to teach us how to do it, not compromising way of Moses law. Jesus' taught us original God's teachings. That's what Jesus meant when He said He fulfilled the law. Remember Jesus changed eye for eye to love your enemy? He updated many violent law and practice.

Yes, as a child of God he had that authority and he had the faith.

Blessings to you, too. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me. I see you as working together with me in the harvest.

 

[meshak]

You are saying the reason to love each other is that God wants us to love each other? I don't think this is the reason given. The reason given is in Luke 7:47.

What the difference does it make? This is what I mean that you make simple word complicated. It is not necessary.

Little children know, though, isn't that why we are told to become like little children again?

Little children love people who love them. We are to love people even they don't love us.

He reminds us through advice like becoming like little children and warning us against love with hypocrisy.

See the above.

When we don't believe we owe each other our love, or we love with hypocrisy we sin.

To learn how to love even unlovable is not hypocrisy. That's what Jesus commands us "love your enemy". Little children cannot love their enemy.

Blessings to you, too. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me. I see you as working together with me in the harvest.

Your welcome.

blessings.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

What the difference does it make? This is what I mean that you make simple word complicated. It is not necessary.

It's not necessary if you are not looking to make a believer who will remain faithful while fishing for men around hypocrites. Without a vision the people perish. Proverbs 29:18 People need a reason from a reasonable God if they are going to avoid deception about why they love each other.

If someone is too simple to understand that the reason God loves them is that He is their Father then they don't need to know.

Little children love people who love them. We are to love people even they don't love us.

Little children don't see enemies. They are innocent.

To learn how to love even unlovable is not hypocrisy.

I didn't mean to imply that. But to me, there are no unlovable ones. All are worthy of love, the reason being they are God's offspring.

That's what Jesus commands us "love your enemy". Little children cannot love their enemy.

They do not have enemies. They hate no man.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

I think you are making salvation complicated more than actually is, to be honest.

This sums up from our discourse.

blessings.

But you will endure to the end because you know you are loved and you know why you love your brother. That's eternal security. It's proven by your state of being, following Jesus faithfully without hesitation. You could no more rebel than you could personally see to Jesus crucifixion.

 

[meshak]

But you will endure to the end because you know you are loved and you know why you love your brother. That's eternal security. It's proven by your state of being, following Jesus faithfully without hesitation. You could no more rebel than you could personally see to Jesus crucifixion.

I became Jesus' follower because I believe He teaches the truth about love and just.

Everything He says make sense to me. that's why I strive to follow His teachings. I believe Jesus' teachings are the solution to all our problems and predicaments.

Jesus believes in His Father, so I believe in God, His Father, too because I trust Jesus' word.

I hope that answers your question.

blessings.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

I became Jesus' follower because I believe He teaches the truth about love and just.

That's a good reason.

Everything He says make sense to me. that's why I strive to follow His teachings. I believe Jesus' teachings are the solution to all our problems and predicaments.

I believe that you are correct about that.

Jesus believes in His Father, so I believe in God, His Father, too because I trust Jesus' word.

I hope that answers your question.

blessings.

Fair enough, spoken like a shepherd's lamb, but do you believe that Jesus wants you to be one with them as he and his Father are one? Do you see Jesus as your brother, and God as your Father? I'm curious because I think if you haven't gotten there it's inevitable on a path of following Jesus.

It's inevitable if you live long enough as a follower of Jesus that you will see that Jesus is telling us all that we are the offspring of God and family to each other.

I find it effortless to love everybody on one simple basis. I self-identify with everyone like a little child. They are one with me, even the ignorant and doomed ones. I realize that God wants them all to see that they are His lost children and come home, that all their sins and afflictions are the result of a world turned upside down for lack of knowing this simple truth. Lonely, delusional, and seemingly loveless people could be so much different if they only knew what I knew.

 

[Heterodoxical]

When you come back, and I do hope you come back, think to bring a verse. But I don't think you will be bringing one.

Coming back will always happen, if I can just figure out some floating standards this silliness will stop.

LORD, is a human word used to describe God's relationship to us. It is chosen because how a LORD's relationship with His "minions" or people on his land, reflects how God's relationship with us is. It's an Anthropomorphism. It is not a precise and complete definition of God, and it does NOT hold a definition that contradicts how the word is used amongst humanity.

That being said, the Lord owns the land. Everyone on the land is there at his suffrance. It is His will they are ALLOWED to be there. ANything they produce belongs to the LORD. ALL their work is for their LORD. Their very offspring is for their LORD to take off to battle and kill if they wish. They live at the mercy of their LORD. THIS is the word, God chose to use, to describe His relationship with Him.

Versal references. Use the Christ is the vine, the LORD God is the gardener, and we are the branches. A branch doesn't exist without the vine, without the vine's providence/nutrients/water nor without the Vine's command to grow and exist there. The branch doesn't pick where on the Vine it will go. It has a spot, and it is to learn to do the job as best it can in that spot. WHEN the Branch bears fruit, the VINE produces the fruit, the branch ONLY gets to bear it. Or, hold it, present it to the world. The Branch is a tool the vine uses to bring His fruit to the world.

Then you have the comment that we are His tools for righteousness. Maybe it's instruments, but an instrument is a tool however you look at it. You have the Fruits of the SPirit... Which are either there or they aren't. IF they are there, it's because of the Spirit, not yourself.

You have the commandment to love neighbor and God. Which the word for love there requires a work/demonstration to be with it.

You have Paul saying the biggest theological argument of His day was NOT important, but faith WORKING through love was. If we look at James' comments FAITH, will result in a work for God, who is Love.

If you go to the last chapter in Matt 25, the parable there, the ones who did the works for God, fed, clothed, etc... were the ones who were HIS. They were His tools for those other people, who God claimed as them doing work for Him.

Eph 4 says you are led by the Church to do works of service, and through those works, Christian Maturity comes. Those works, are executed by us, His tools.

The Church is described as a BODY, with Christ as the Mind. What are we? Toes, and fingers, and knees and buttocks, and.... What are those??? Those are tools the body uses. The fingers are used to hold the hammer or the food or the child. The feet are used to carry the body.

The body, doesn't take the mind places, the mind uses the tools to take IT places.

This is in 8 minutes off the top of my head. Praytell, do you want me to actually crack open the Bible? Tell me a book and chapter to start in and nearly every message/story, will back me up.

God isn't Santa Claus. We serve HIM, He doesn't serve us.

He is the LORD of lords, but tell me, does the Lord of a castle treat his children like serfs?

Do you let your toddler drive your car? We are Serfs. We exist to be His instruments of RIghteousness on earth. WE DO HIS WORK. Just like Serfs. We can ONLY produce if He gives us His blessing, just like a serf. (are you confusing serf with smurf? I can see an argument with smurf..... not with serf...) ((smile please))

How can you make the comparison with holy royal children who are of the same priesthood as Jesus, the priesthood of Melchizedek, kings and priests forever?

The High priest serves GOD. The priests serve the High Priest. How can you NOT make the comparison? A royal daughter is married off to serve the Kingdom to a man she doesn't even know. IF YOU ARE that royal daughter, you will go and be what you were bred to be, the best wife you could be and make a strong Union. A Royal Son is used to lead his LORD'S people to battle, and may die in the process. The MIND stays at the house, to be the mind, and sends a right arm on feet, to do His will in His name.

How can you compare God to that king and us to Robin-hood? That would be like comparing the king's son to the outlaw.

How could I not in the context I used it?

He owes you something.

He is not God, then. God is omnipotent. I can not enforce anything on God. I can make no claims against Him, and I can take Him to no court if He doesn't meet my expectation. I ONLY exist at His mercy. Period. Anyway you slice it, that's that. If you think GOD OWES YOU SOMETHING, you have put yourself as more important than God, on something.

Tell me, what happened if a SERF stormed into the castle screaming, or speaking emphatically, that The King owed him a new cow cause his old one died! The King is going to send him off to jail or have him flogged or beheaded. You don't speak to the King like that. In fact, IF you were granted audience, you would be obeissant, not proud. You would be poor of Sprit, not sure of Spirit. You would depend on Him, not demand on Him. You would keep your eyes from meeting His out of respect and deference. That's how you acted around a KING.

Now, WE are talking the LORD OF LORDS, or the King of Kings. This is the most important of all of those other kings. This KING the OTHER Kings look upon as we look upon our kings.

He owes you nothing, and if He gives you anything, you will be happy and appreciative, and thank Him for His Mercy. Anything less, has you as thinking you are more than God. And would show, He's not yet your king. Want verses again? Blessed are the Poor in Spirit. matt 5:6ish. Look up the word for "poor" there.

He owes you the love of a Father because he made you in his image and likeness.

??? God has a debt. That's taking some guts to claim.

In Psalm 82 he warns you that the earth is turned out of course by those walking in darkness; that those who do not believe in a Father's love will die like men because they do not know they are the offspring of God. You can't leave a baby to run amok in your house like a little stranger or he will perish.

This verse doesn't mean your idea of that love is correct. 1 John 4:16-18 puts all of eternal life on one thing, Love.... the verses go together quite nicely. TY for the reference. If you think a Father's love means he owes you something, then it's not love, but it's a debt. It's not Grace but a fulfillment.

Jesus preached eternal security on earth, before the cross. He said stuff like "He that believeth in me shall never die", "never thirst" or "hunger again", so what is that but eternal security?

It's a different life. There is nothing that says it's eternal security. There is nothing that says it's not either. But, the truth is, you don't know what it is. So, if you are wrong, and stand before God, are you going to argue with Him? Or admit HE is LORD of Lords, and KING of Kings, and that you will gladly take what He will give?

You have to explain how a loving Father is going to reject children who know He's their father. You have to explain how that is going to work.

No, I don't. I don't have to explain why God would do anything. I am not HIS Keeper, HE is MY keeper.

 

[Heterodoxical]

When is the last time you actually weighed in on a discussion without a judgmental presumption? never mind

AMR

It was more recent than yours... As you failed to do so here. And in every other thread, I swear YOU personally are more interested in the Idolatry of Reformed Church than you are of God. You want to talk to me of presumption and judgement?

AMR, I'm on record in here, as to admitting I've been wrong, more than a handful of times. How far back do you think I have to go, to find you admitting to an error?

Care to rescind your boisterous statement, or is that what you want to run with.

Notice, rather than discuss the OP, you made a personal attack. Did you feel the OP addressed too much of you personally? Is that why you responded personally? If that's the case, you need help, not posturing.

You are a snipe shooting, hit and run, opinion giver that practically pouts if their opinion isn't accepted. <<<<<< THAT is Judgemental. It's a GOOD judgement too. And I can stick with it and defend it. Which is more than you can do in this response to the OP.

ANything else?

 

[Heterodoxical]

Even the name, "Ask Mr. Religion" shows how much you think of yourself and your opinion. You go show me where you've been wrong ONCE in the last year on here AMR, and get my amended statement and my apology.

Do you not like it when someone can challenge your claims and you can't answer? :snuffles:

 

[glorydaz]

It was more recent than yours... As you failed to do so here. And in every other thread, I swear YOU personally are more interested in the Idolatry of Reformed Church than you are of God. You want to talk to me of presumption and judgement?

AMR, I'm on record in here, as to admitting I've been wrong, more than a handful of times. How far back do you think I have to go, to find you admitting to an error?

Care to rescind your boisterous statement, or is that what you want to run with.

Notice, rather than discuss the OP, you made a personal attack. Did you feel the OP addressed too much of you personally? Is that why you responded personally? If that's the case, you need help, not posturing.

You are a snipe shooting, hit and run, opinion giver that practically pouts if their opinion isn't accepted. <<<<<< THAT is Judgemental. It's a GOOD judgement too. And I can stick with it and defend it. Which is more than you can do in this response to the OP.

ANything else?

Actually, AMR's question was exactly what you needed to hear. It wasn't a personal attack...it was a legitimate question, and one you should be addressing instead of pointing out the speck you see in someone else's eye. Instead, you set yourself on fire to draw attention to it. :chuckle:

When is the last time you actually weighed in on a discussion without a judgmental presumption? never mind

 

[glorydaz]

Even the name, "Ask Mr. Religion" shows how much you think of yourself and your opinion. You go show me where you've been wrong ONCE in the last year on here AMR, and get my amended statement and my apology.

Do you not like it when someone can challenge your claims and you can't answer? :snuffles:

Pour more gasoline over your head and drag out the match. :nono:

 

[Heterodoxical]

Actually, AMR's question was exactly what you needed to hear. It wasn't a personal attack...

really, by what definition of personal? He left the topic and attacked the person. By any definition of the word, it is what it is. I don't say personal attacks have no place in a conversation. Character is relevant. If a person lies all the time, call them out as a liar, I'm all in with that. But, when you use ONLY personal attack, and ignore the discussion and arguments, it can be NOTHING but a personal attack.

it was a legitimate question, and one you should be addressing instead of pointing out the speck you see in someone else's eye.

One I did address, no?

Instead, you set yourself on fire to draw attention to it. :chuckle:

Well, I do tend to lean to hyperbolic, no?

He asked a question with no substance. I could ask him, if he told his mother he was a gay atheist yet? It would be a question. It would attack him. It would not say ANYTHING relevant to the conversation.

The fact is, without a substantiation from him, where can I address it? I did address the idea though.

Between him and me, I'm on record admitting to being wrong, and changing my mind based on what you guys have said to me. Where as AMR done that?

No where. Not on any of a half dozen places I've seen his name posting. Nada, not once. Instead he presumes the name he chose, warrants respect and to be given Carte Blanche on the "Right-O-Meter". To the point he makes claims, and won't even stooop so low to address the objections, ESPECIALLY when they show him errant.

I may enter every conversation with questions and challenges, but do you want to stand in the alley and agree all day long?

Without disagreements and investigating, and testing the "what if's" You have no conversation.

I'm not the one crying and going personal every time my thoughts are challenged. That's you guys.

You can call me names all day long, and I'm ok with it, AS LONG AS, you can give an example why you used the name so it's got a legitimate place in the chat, and you address the issues.

Nice try, but no, your response, as best I can tell, is not a representation of what happened in that discussion.

 

[Heterodoxical]

Pour more gasoline over your head and drag out the match. :nono:

OOOOhhhh sniff sniff, I'm mortally wounded. :hammer:

If I was to be like your hero amr, I would enter this chat, and just denigrate you, and ignore the point you were trying to make. That's how your hero operates..

Instead, I'll just ignore your comment with no refutation.

BTW was your highlighted parts up there, the things you agreed with me about? Because you'll have a tough time sticking me with those charges, but I'm welcome to be corrected if you can. Do you have any substantiation for them if you ARE applying them to me? Or, do you just wish to make libelous insinuations?

BTW, How's the Court case going? I know being held in Contempt of Court can get expensive, but I'm behind your back on this one!

 

[meshak]

but do you believe that Jesus wants you to be one with them as he and his Father are one?

Of course.

Do you see Jesus as your brother, and God as your Father?

Of course, that's what Jesus says.

It's inevitable if you live long enough as a follower of Jesus that you will see that Jesus is telling us all that we are the offspring of God and family to each other.

We can be God's family if we choose to. We will be approved by Him if we are sincere and honest servants.

I find it effortless to love everybody on one simple basis.

We can love God and one love one another if we strive to understand Jesus' teaching and obey His teachings and commands.

Jesus is the Teacher of love, sister.

blessings.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Just wanted your attention.

Knight has regularly noted that starting threads with odd titles is not conducive to aiding search engines for driving traffic to TOL. How about starting threads withe meaningful titles instead of trying to be clever?

For example, this thread would be appropriately entitled:

Heterodox complains about that which he practices daily- An examination of double-mindedness
​

AMR