Hurting People On TOL

[meshak]

So there is a necessity to both believe and obey. And this is reiterated in Revelation 14:12 as well as Revelation 22:14.

that's right, Faith and obedience go hand in hand. Without the other, there is no salvation. It is that simple yet mainstreamers cannot see it. They are so blind.

Salvation is not hard concept yet mainstreamers make it complicated. It is grave sin to do that.

 

[IMJerusha]

Wow! You even underline it and miss it...unbelievable. Hint: "what He has done"

It's not about your obedience, it is about His obedience....

Salvation is by faith. Faith exhibits obedience.

I will and I will refuse to live by the law which is fulfilled and gone for those that place faith in the One that was able to fulfill it...you certainly cannot. It seems you rely in your own obedience and not the obedience of Yeshua which is our all in all.

Again, we live by faith which exhibits obedience.
Matthew 5:17-19 “Do not think that I have come to do away with the Law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets. I have not come to do away with them, but to make their teachings come true. Remember that as long as heaven and earth last, not the least point nor the smallest detail of the Law will be done away with—not until the end of all things. So then, whoever disobeys even the least important of the commandments and teaches others to do the same, will be least in the Kingdom of heaven. On the other hand, whoever obeys the Law and teaches others to do the same, will be great in the Kingdom of heaven."

So, we need to be very careful about telling people there is no requirement for obedience/necessity to evidence fruit of the Ruach.
Matthew 18:7-9 "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell." Unlike what Gdaz stated about there being no requirement, the requirement, according to Yeshua is so great that we'd be better off cutting off body parts than disobeying God's commands. And this Scripture is repeated in Mark as well as Luke. In the case of causing children to sin, it would be better if we had a millstone tied around our necks. Do you teach children that it is unimportant to obey God? If the end result of this wasn't so serious, it would be a hilarious scenario. "Kids, these are God's commandments but we don't need to pay attention to them because Yeshua died for us on the Cross. Of course, Yeshua needed to obey them out of love for His Father but we don't. How that equates to us loving God as Yeshua did, isn't important. Just follow what we're telling you, not what Yeshua did." Yeah, right!

The Law is gone, eh? Practice Lawlessness and see what it gets you. “Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ ”— Matthew 7:21–23

If we do not love God and Yeshua, we have no faith in God and Yeshua. What is the first and greatest command of God that you say is gone? Do we no longer love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul and strength? When we have faith in God and Yeshua, we have love for them and by that love we obey with the help and leading of the Ruach. We couldn't have that help and leading without having faith in God and Yeshua. It was Yeshua who sent the Ruach to us.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

that's right, Faith and obedience go hand in hand. Without the other, there is no salvation. It is that simple yet mainstreamers cannot see it. They are so blind.

Salvation is not hard concept yet mainstreamers make it complicated. It is grave sin to do that.

Thank you for your wisdom! You're truly the most intelligent person
that ever wasn't!

 

[glorydaz]

Those who boast in Yeshua are obedient to Yeshua. If we live by faith, we are obedient and claiming that obedience is wrong claims that the leading of the Ruach is wrong, which it isn't and can never be. If I'm lying then so is Yeshua and Ruach HaKodesh and we both know They don't so go call someone else a hypocrite.

There you go....you accuser of the brethren....just like God's untruth. And, yes, you are nothing but a hypocrite....as actor strutting upon the stage hoping your white wash is doing it's job. :nono:

No one has ever claimed "obedience is wrong", you false accuser. What is wrong is claiming YOUR obedience saves or keeps you saved. You are about as subtle as your father the devil when you make such a statement. But, you just can't help yourself, can you? It's your LIE that we are justified by our obedience instead of the obedience of the ONE. That is the LIE satan promotes through you worker bees.

Romans 8:33KJV
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Ezekiel 33:13KJV
When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

Romans 10:3KJV
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Philippians 3:9KJV
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:​

 

[glorydaz]

Ladies, ladies, please... ...this is unseemly.

The battlefield is never a pleasant sight.....and, believe me, satan has his finger in this PIE.

 

[IMJerusha]

There you go....you accuser of the brethren....

Your words have accused yourself as I have always claimed that it is our faith in Yeshua that saves us. It is Yeshua who stated that faith exhibits itself in obedience and He is Who I follow. You have a problem with that...to the point that you doubt the work of the Ruach in me and do what you have no power to do...condemn me. Go pitch your hissy fit to someone else. I'm heading off to the grocery store and a nice late lunch with the hubby!

 

[IMJerusha]

The battlefield is never a pleasant sight.....and, believe me, satan has his finger in this PIE.

Believe you...over Yeshua...really! Are you done telling Him His business by virtue of your doctrine of choice? No?....meh! lain: Carry on...I've posted Yeshua's points.

 

[glorydaz]

Salvation is by faith. Faith exhibits obedience.


Again, we live by faith which exhibits obedience.
Matthew 5:17-19 “Do not think that I have come to do away with the Law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets. I have not come to do away with them, but to make their teachings come true. Remember that as long as heaven and earth last, not the least point nor the smallest detail of the Law will be done away with—not until the end of all things. So then, whoever disobeys even the least important of the commandments and teaches others to do the same, will be least in the Kingdom of heaven. On the other hand, whoever obeys the Law and teaches others to do the same, will be great in the Kingdom of heaven."

So, we need to be very careful about telling people there is no requirement for obedience/necessity to evidence fruit of the Ruach.
Matthew 18:7-9 "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell." Unlike what Gdaz stated about there being no requirement, the requirement, according to Yeshua is so great that we'd be better off cutting off body parts than disobeying God's commands. And this Scripture is repeated in Mark as well as Luke. In the case of causing children to sin, it would be better if we had a millstone tied around our necks. Do you teach children that it is unimportant to obey God? If the end result of this wasn't so serious, it would be a hilarious scenario. "Kids, these are God's commandments but we don't need to pay attention to them because Yeshua died for us on the Cross. Of course, Yeshua needed to obey them out of love for His Father but we don't. How that equates to us loving God as Yeshua did, isn't important. Just follow what we're telling you, not what Yeshua did." Yeah, right!

The Law is gone, eh? Practice Lawlessness and see what it gets you. “Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ ”— Matthew 7:21–23

If we do not love God and Yeshua, we have no faith in God and Yeshua. What is the first and greatest command of God that you say is gone? Do we no longer love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul and strength? When we have faith in God and Yeshua, we have love for them and by that love we obey with the help and leading of the Ruach. We couldn't have that help and leading without having faith in God and Yeshua. It was Yeshua who sent the Ruach to us.

Great zeal, but not according to knowledge. :nono:

We teach our children that God loves them no matter how many times they fail....when they fall, He will pick them up and carry them. That is the unconditional love of the Father for those who BELIEVE and trust in their Papa (Abba). Get it straight or zip your lip.

Romans 10:2-4
For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Eph. 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.​

The problem with every single WORKER is their propensity to point their crooked little finger at others and lecture them about their behaviour. God is in the business of winning hearts and minds....behaviour follows after like a dog, or, dare I say, a sheep. The worker is the most judgmental of all men....pharisees and hypocrites were our Lord's especial target, and I can certainly see why.

 

[glorydaz]

Believe you...over Yeshua...really! Are you done telling Him His business by virtue of your doctrine of choice? No?....meh! lain: Carry on...I've posted Yeshua's points.

Are you done strutting about in your whitewash? :chuckle:

HIS "point" was you can never be perfect until you are IN HIM. You claim we move in and out of Him like He is a revolving door instead of the DOOR. You are the blind trying to lead the blind, and you don't even know it. :nono:

Try believing the Gospel of Salvation. That's what I preach. You preach obedience to the Law which gives blessing or cursings in this life only. The Law was never made to justify anyone, or make men holy, or give LIFE. It was our schoolmaster, and you refuse to leave school and graduate into LIFE.

Gal. 3:21
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.​

 

[glorydaz]

Your words have accused yourself as I have always claimed that it is our faith in Yeshua that saves us. It is Yeshua who stated that faith exhibits itself in obedience and He is Who I follow. You have a problem with that...to the point that you doubt the work of the Ruach in me and do what you have no power to do...condemn me. Go pitch your hissy fit to someone else. I'm heading off to the grocery store and a nice late lunch with the hubby!

Stay away from those revolving doors. They can spit you out on the other side just like you claim our Lord will if you fail to obey. :chuckle:

 

[Totton Linnet]

Mercy and Grace have been lavished on us and you still want to be disobedient? Where is the appreciation for Yeshua's sacrifice on the Cross? We don't have life unless we remain in Yeshua and the precise reason is because He overcame, we didn't. We can choose to stay on the narrow road or we can choose the broad road. Obedience is for the love of God and Yeshua, not for ourselves. It is by faith that we obey through the leading of the Ruach. John 14:23-26. Those who don't want to be obedient to God's and Yeshua's commands don't love them and that's straight from Yeshua's mouth.
That is dirty tricks

We DON'T wish to be disobedient, when the flogalong works brigade use dirty tricks I sometimes don't bother to reply.

Your next sentence is a direct contradiction of scripture

Scripture says we HAVE overcome the devil...by the blood of the Lamb and the word of testimony.

That is why meshackles failed so miserably...she does not have the testimony, her testimony is that she is worldly, not born again, not a true Christian.

Paul says we are more than conquerors through HIM who loved us no where are works mentioned, it is ALL of Christ, all of God and He shall have the glory alone.

When people boast that they are obedient and have produced good fruit they are boasting.

In fact they don't say that, they never say that, what they do is accuse everybody else of not being obedient and not producing fruit.

They only IMPLY by this that they are.....it is a lie, be sure of that. If it were true then their works would speak for themselves

Now you say we can lose the life, having been rescued by our Lord, having strayed and been lost and found and brought into the narrow way you say that we may yet again slip out of the Saviours hands, out of the Father's hand who is greater than all.

Once again you fly in the face of scripture. All that sheep did was get lost, he went his own way, he found himself lost, miserable, afraid and lonely.

Now in the parable only one went astray, that one was found. That is 100 per cent record the Lord has WHY? because we are His sheep, we belong to Him, we are His property. What work do sheeps do? they simply follow the Shepherd, He leads them beside still waters, good grazing.

You slander Christ, you say His sacrifice was not sufficient and must be supplemented by us.

In these matters you, the most crucial matters of all, you are DISOBEDIENT for God DEMANDS that we accept salvation freely, it is given free it must be received for free...no earnings of it

So you are preaching a false message, misrepresenting Christ, making Him a Taskmaster.

Putting a stumbling block in front of people who would GLADLY receive it free [knowing within themselves that they could never be good enough in themselves

It is a lying gospel
1 John 5:1-5 -- "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God."
His commands are not burdensome for EVERYONE born of God overcomes the world

This IS the victory that has overcome the world even our faith

Who is it that overcomes the world? only the one who BELIEVES that Jesus is the Son of God

THIS is the command we are to keep which is not burdensome, you flogalongs make the gospel as onerous and burdensome as you possibly can.

It is a false gospel
So there is a necessity to both believe and obey. And this is reiterated in Revelation 14:12 as well as Revelation 22:14.

So there you are what YOU and meshackles call obedience is extremely Disobedient, you do not obey the command to simply believe and receive.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

So there you are what YOU and meshackles call obedience is extremely Disobedient, you do not obey the command to simply believe and receive.

Your posts have no evidence of your having overcome anything.

Your ability to talk so trashy of other believers tells me you are not yet different to those who left Egypt and soon fell in the wilderness.

LA

 

[Totton Linnet]

Your words have accused yourself as I have always claimed that it is our faith in Yeshua that saves us. It is Yeshua who stated that faith exhibits itself in obedience and He is Who I follow. You have a problem with that...to the point that you doubt the work of the Ruach in me and do what you have no power to do...condemn me. Go pitch your hissy fit to someone else. I'm heading off to the grocery store and a nice late lunch with the hubby!

You DON'T it is NOT your faith which saves you, that is what you say over and over again...it is YOU, your obedience, your good works.

I tell you the truth when you lie adying your works and your obedience will not comfort your soul....

 

[IMJerusha]

Great zeal, but not according to knowledge.

When our "knowledge" does not agree with God's or Yeshua's Words, guess what?....it's not knowledge, it's willfulness. Lunch was good, btw.

We teach our children that God loves them no matter how many times they fail....when they fall, He will pick them up and carry them. That is the unconditional love of the Father for those who BELIEVE and trust in their Papa (Abba). Get it straight or zip your lip.

Read the Words of "Papa":
"Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Teach them to your children, talking about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up." Deuteronomy 11:18-19

And read the words of Paul:
"For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus." Romans 2:14-16

Oh gee, I guess Paul's telling us that we will be judged according to our obedience. "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." Romans 3:31

Romans 10:2-4
For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Since when is lawlessness the righteousness of God? Show me anywhere in Scripture where Yeshua states we are not to obey His or His Father's commands. These words of Paul are regarding those who look to the Law for salvation, not those who obey out of love for God and Yeshua.

Eph. 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Again, faith in Yeshua is evidenced by obedience out of love for Him and it is fine to boast in Yeshua. No faith, no love; no love, no fruit, no obedience, no salvation per Yeshua.

The problem with every single WORKER is their propensity to point their crooked little finger at others and lecture them about their behaviour. God is in the business of winning hearts and minds....behaviour follows after like a dog, or, dare I say, a sheep. The worker is the most judgmental of all men....pharisees and hypocrites were our Lord's especial target, and I can certainly see why.

Say what? God doesn't need us for anything. He didn't have to win us. Your painting God out as a celestial Mr. Rogers. "Wouldja, couldja be my neighbor?" He wants us to come to Him but He doesn't cajole us. Again, Yeshua stated that only he who does the Will of His Father will be in heaven. That doesn't equate to believe in Him and you can do whatever according to whatever. The behavior that is to follow our belief is according to the Law ("through the law we become conscious of our sin") which the Ruach leads us by or do you disagree with Paul yet again?

You show contempt for the work of the Ruach in believers and call those who respond to Him in obedience little worker bees, children of Satan, etc. and knock yourself out trying to make them feel small. It doesn't work. It doesn't work for you and it REALLY doesn't work for God. Yeshua states that behavior is unforgiveable. “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come” Matthew 12:31-32

 

[IMJerusha]

You DON'T it is NOT your faith which saves you, that is what you say over and over again...it is YOU, your obedience, your good works.

I tell you the truth when lie adying your works and your obedience will not comfort your soul....

My soul is comforted by the leading of Ruach HaKodesh. My obedience to God will be judged by God and, thankfully, not you who have no power to assess the secrets of my heart in Yeshua. Sorry.

 

[Totton Linnet]

My soul is comforted by the leading of Ruach HaKodesh. My obedience to God will be judged by God and, thankfully, not you who have no power to assess the secrets of my heart in Yeshua. Sorry.

Your words say your salvation must be earned...that is the debate

Your assessment of me was [out of nowhere] that I wish to be disobedient.

 

[IMJerusha]

So there you are what YOU and meshackles call obedience is extremely Disobedient, you do not obey the command to simply believe and receive.

I have simply believed and received. Paul says to run the race in Yeshua. You want me to be a couch potato. I'm not a couch potato Christian. Sorry.

 

[Totton Linnet]

I have simply believed and received. Paul says to run the race in Yeshua. You want me to be a couch potato. I'm not a couch potato Christian. Sorry.

You have said innumerable times that you can yet be lost, therefore you do not believe you are completely saved.

 

[IMJerusha]

Your words say your salvation must be earned...that is the debate

Your assessment of me was [out of nowhere] that I wish to be disobedient.

I have stated what Yeshua says. He didn't say anything about fruitless branches being pressed in God's Albums for keepsakes. He said they are picked up and cast in the fire. Now, I don't know about you but the last time I checked, "the fire" isn't the least bit sounding like heaven. That sounds more like...

Well, "as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15

 

[IMJerusha]

You have said innumerable times that you can yet be lost, therefore you do not believe you are completely saved.

I am every bit as saved as Paul was.

"Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus."
Philippians 3:12-14