Hurting People On TOL

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Indeed good works wrought in God will save---

Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

LA

Good works do NOT save!

 

[TulipBee]

When you say "your churches" you mean the church, you mean all Christians everywhere.

You have made yourself Judge.

You have been doing it for years.

You are without understanding, a covenant breaker, without natural affection, implacable and without mercy.

You chucked your old man out without mercy, but you won't set him free by granting him a divorce....you want to still live off his pension.

So you become all principled about it and say "we must obey Jesus and not remarry"

You want his money but treat him like a dog.

Do you think he will ever be converted by such rotten fruit?

The Infected Wolf Meshak mars the face of our church:

"... our Lord does not mean, when we see a wolf,
under the color and appearance of a pastor,
scattering his flock, that we should quail in silence
through fear speaking evil of him. He rather commands
us to discover the perversity of those who, like the
pestilence, corrupt by their infection, and mar the
face of the Church."
- John Calvin

 

[IMJerusha]

This is a debate forum, it is a protestant debate forum, of COURSE we vehemently oppose catholicism, I am not opposed to catholics. I believe as many catholics will be saved as protestants...but they will be saved despite their awful doctrines. In other words God is greater than men's doctrines.

And I must say you are being a little hypocritical here for if a proddy joined a catholic forum and so much as whispered against catholic sacramentalism etc they would be banned outright and forever more...THAT is the ultimate impoliteness.

I am raised a catholic, I LOVE catholic people.

Excuse me? You have no right to speak for everyone here and every Protestant here does not have the same doctrinal view...obviously. If you want to jump into the bash Brothers and Sisters in Yeshua barrel, don't drag other Christians in there with you because Yeshua's not in that barrel and that goes for Catholics as well.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

You call that being polite? Bearing false witness against our beliefs and saying false things about Catholics? Well if that's polite, I'd hate to see what you think is impolite.

I have no problem with disagreements as long as they are factual. Yours usually are not.

This is a debate forum, it is a protestant debate forum, of COURSE we vehemently oppose catholicism..........

I have no problem with that. My problem is that you debate against a phantom Catholic Church that you have concocted in your own warped mind and not the real Catholic Church and our real teachings. You don't deal in facts, you deal in straw man arguments.

And by the way, you have almost nothing in common with protestantism either, what with your Pauline-ism and Dispentationalism. I have more in common with the average Protestant than you do. So I don't know who "we" is when you say "we", unless you have a mouse in your pocket.

..........I am raised a catholic, I LOVE catholic people.

If love means lying about someone, then you definitely Gotta whole lotta' love

 

[IMJerusha]

The Infected Wolf Meshak mars the face of our church:

"... our Lord does not mean, when we see a wolf,
under the color and appearance of a pastor,
scattering his flock, that we should quail in silence
through fear speaking evil of him. He rather commands
us to discover the perversity of those who, like the
pestilence, corrupt by their infection, and mar the
face of the Church."
- John Calvin

So, by all means, let's mar the face of Yeshua by grinding those Christians with different doctrinal views into the dirt, speaking evil of them. I don't think that's what Calvin had in mind. I know Yeshua doesn't support that behavior.

 

[meshak]

Jesus said "ye must be born again" and YOU say it is just a cliché

If you are born again, you will not say "your works cannot save you".

And you are again falsely representing me. You are such a liar.
Liars will not inherit God's kingdom, friend.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

If you are born again, you will not say "your works cannot save you".

And you are again falsely representing me. You are such a liar.
Liars will not inherit God's kingdom, friend.

You sure are DUMB! Do you enjoy being in that state?

 

[IMJerusha]

You sure are DUMB! Do you enjoy being in that state?

When you chose to make that statement, you stepped outside of the Will of God and Yeshua. Yeshua clearly stated that whoever doesn't produce good fruit...good works...as a result of the leading of the Ruach, they are branches that will be cut off and thrown in the fire. So when folks go speaking evil of others, they are evidencing nothing of God or Yeshua or the Ruach. John 15

 

[TulipBee]

If you are born again, you will not say "your works cannot save you".

And you are again falsely representing me. You are such a liar.
Liars will not inherit God's kingdom, friend.

Does born agian mean saved?

 

[TulipBee]

When you chose to make that statement, you stepped outside of the Will of God and Yeshua. Yeshua clearly stated that whoever doesn't produce good fruit...good works...as a result of the leading of the Ruach, they are branches that will be cut off and thrown in the fire. So when folks go speaking evil of others, they are evidencing nothing of God or Yeshua. John 15

Does this apply to Meshak?

 

[IMJerusha]

Does this apply to Meshak?

Why wouldn't it?

It's fine to stand on our faith but we can't accomplish that speaking evil of one another and there's a point where we aren't standing on our faith any longer but rather our doctrinal understanding of the faith.

 

[TulipBee]

So, by all means, let's mar the face of Yeshua by grinding those Christians with different doctrinal views into the dirt, speaking evil of them. I don't think that's what Calvin had in mind. I know Yeshua doesn't support that behavior.

Which one of theses are helpful?


Matthew 18:15-17 ESV / 227 helpful votes

“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Galatians 6:1 ESV / 155 helpful votes

Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.

Titus 3:10-11 ESV / 129 helpful votes

As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

2 Thessalonians 3:15 ESV / 86 helpful votes

Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.

2 Timothy 4:2 ESV / 70 helpful votes

Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.

1 Timothy 5:20 ESV / 65 helpful votes

As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.

Romans 14:1-23 ESV / 47 helpful votes

As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Romans 16:17 ESV / 45 helpful votes

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.

Ezekiel 33:7-12 ESV / 34 helpful votes

“So you, son of man, I have made a watchman for the house of Israel. Whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me. If I say to the wicked, O wicked one, you shall surely die, and you do not speak to warn the wicked to turn from his way, that wicked person shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand. But if you warn the wicked to turn from his way, and he does not turn from his way, that person shall die in his iniquity, but you will have delivered your soul. “And you, son of man, say to the house of Israel, Thus have you said: ‘Surely our transgressions and our sins are upon us, and we rot away because of them. How then can we live?’ Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?

 

[IMJerusha]

Hairy long posts are not helpful, that's for sure. You left one out. Ezekiel 3:16-21

My point has always been to speak as the Ruach leads. He is not going to lead with words like idiot, moron, dummy, stupid, fool, etc. and there is no excuse for that behavior, not for believers. What is the point of hurting each other? It accomplishes nothing for God and every time we sin like that, we step outside of Yeshua because like His Father, Yeshua does not live in sin.

 

[glorydaz]

You contradict "whosoever believeth" and make it into whosoever believeth this doctrine. A believer in Yeshua obeys the leading of Ruach HaKodesh which is God's Will.

So, according to you, Jesus didn't need to come and die on the cross...men just had to obey. Gotcha. :thumb:

So you're saying Yeshua was an unbeliever. He didn't just teach the Law, He lived by it.

I can see why you have so much trouble understanding the Bible...you can't even read what I've written without adding your nonsense to it.



.

..which is why you treat it with such contempt.

I treat YOU with contempt because you spit on the cross with your ungodly preaching.

God's Mercy and Grace always existed and was obtained through obedience to the Law.

:rotfl:

Which Yeshua didn't know about when He stated "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."? Yeah, I'm just not buying that.

It's the will of the Father that we BELIEVE on the Son. And, yes, I can see you're not buying it. Poor lost worker bee that you are.

We can't live in constant sin and live in Yeshua simultaneously without confession and repentance and you don't believe in confession and repentance but for the first time when you accepted Yeshua so how do you expect to remain in Yeshua and not come under condemnation while you're doing whatever sinful thing you want to do? You can't. Paul was very clear that that attitude subjects Yeshua to public disgrace. Yes, I know what it means to have my name in the Lamb's Book of Life and I also know my name can be blotted out. Revelation 3:5 "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." So, we can not give in to and live in sin and expect no condemnation. We don't receive heavenly rewards if we do not remain in Yeshua and show forth fruit of the Ruach and what is that fruit?...obedience and faithfulness. We become a branch that is cut off and cast into the fire just as Yeshua explained in John 15.

The only thing you know is how to mix up a bunch of verses into a mash and hope it will be swallowed by the babes. Our Lord overcame the world, and it's our position IN HIM that makes us overcomers....our faith has given us the victory. Not our obedience to the commandments, but the obedience of FAITH.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.​

Nope. I can not boast in myself because my help comes from the Ruach. I can only boast in Yeshua who sent the Ruach to help me.

Ah, He "helps" you so you can boast. Gotcha. :thumb:

I am doing my best to breathe it in as often as I can.

Ah, you even take credit for breathing. Cool. :chuckle:

What I am is believing in Scripture and not man's doctrines. No one who obeys God and Yeshua is counting on their own righteousness for salvation. They're just exhibiting the fruit of the Ruach and I will continue to follow the leading of the Ruach in that endeavor so I will not be lost. The goal, according to Paul, is to strive for the prize.

The "prize" is not salvation. You say, "I will continue to follow....so I will not be lost." Good luck with that. For myself, I have already passed from death unto life and I am seated with Christ in heavenly places right now. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saves us.

I will boast in the work of Yeshua through the Ruach in me. I will strive and I will, with His help, obtain the prize. I, like Paul, will trust God to give you a different attitude.

My attitude is fine, little boasting toots. :chuckle:

"What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained." Philippians 3:8-16

Don't overlook that last sentence there Gdaz..."live up to"...get it? So, while righteousness comes through faith in Yeshua, obedience is the fruit of that faith, the doing of God's Will. We know God's Will from God's Law which teaches us what sin is.

Don't overlook what that text is actually saying, IMJ....not what you read into what it's saying, but what it actually says. You want to glory in the so called "fruit" you claim you're producing.....you do so to your shame. The example you think you're setting is putrid and you can't even see it. :nono:

Phil. 3:16-20KJV
Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.​

Your citizenship (conversation) is here on this earth...not in heaven where it belongs. You are still under the schoolmaster.....those who trust in the Lord are no longer under that schoolmaster (the law). What is natural to the new man is a chore to you workers. It's why you focus so heavily on the works of the law....you are still looking at the flesh to find salvation.

 

[TulipBee]

Hairy long posts are not helpful, that's for sure. You left one out. Ezekiel 3:16-21

My point has always been to speak as the Ruach leads. He is not going to lead with words like idiot, moron, dummy, stupid, fool, etc. and there is no excuse for that behavior, not for believers. What is the point of hurting each other? It accomplishes nothing for God and every time we sin like that, we step outside of Yeshua because like His Father, Yeshua does not live in sin.

Well, he is like the National Enquirer. I enjoy looking at the front cover of those trash magazines while waiting in line to buy my groceries. Most of us learned not to believe in those magazines. I long stopped caring for them. They are so trashy. So yeah, some say trash just for fun. Right, batboy exists.

I shorten that post just for you.

 

[TulipBee]

Why wouldn't it?

It's fine to stand on our faith but we can't accomplish that speaking evil of one another and there's a point where we aren't standing on our faith any longer but rather our doctrinal understanding of the faith.

Does Meshak disobey Jesus when she speaks evil of others?

 

[Totton Linnet]

Excuse me? You have no right to speak for everyone here and every Protestant here does not have the same doctrinal view...obviously. If you want to jump into the bash Brothers and Sisters in Yeshua barrel, don't drag other Christians in there with you because Yeshua's not in that barrel and that goes for Catholics as well.

I dint bash catholics...I bashed their awful doctrines

 

[Totton Linnet]

I have no problem with that. My problem is that you debate against a phantom Catholic Church that you have concocted in your own warped mind and not the real Catholic Church and our real teachings. You don't deal in facts, you deal in straw man arguments.

And by the way, you have almost nothing in common with protestantism either, what with your Pauline-ism and Dispentationalism. I have more in common with the average Protestant than you do. So I don't know who "we" is when you say "we", unless you have a mouse in your pocket.



If love means lying about someone, then you definitely Gotta whole lotta' love

I believe in Paul's dispensation don't you? I am not a MADianite.

Nobody need make up awful doctrines for the RCC, they have them in super abundance.

I was brought up RCC I know the tradition...agree with the Pope, live like the devil.....just be sure to attend the sacrament once a year.

 

[Totton Linnet]

If you are born again, you will not say "your works cannot save you".

And you are again falsely representing me. You are such a liar.
Liars will not inherit God's kingdom, friend.

Your works are to treat your husband worse than a dog....while living on his pension.

You cannot claim you are born again because it has never happened to you. You were never made a new creation..no miracle change happened to you.

The heart of stone you have always had you have still.

You can't just tuck a bible under your arm and pretend to be some great Christian, that is not how salvation is.

You have to belong to Christ, belong to His church...you admit that you don't.

 

[TulipBee]

Your works are to treat your husband worse than a dog....while living on his pension.

You cannot claim you are born again because it has never happened to you. You were never made a new creation..no miracle change happened to you.

The heart of stone you have always had you have still.

You can't just tuck a bible under your arm and pretend to be some great Christian, that is not how salvation is.

You have to belong to Christ, belong to His church...you admit that you don't.

What's the story with Meshak and her husband?

How do you belong to a church?