HOW TO GET TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE

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clefty

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Dartman said:
No.

I'm 100% sure that I won't.

And, I am 100% sure that no one else will either.

Jesus is the ONLY... "the first and the last" ... human being to go to God's presence in heaven.

Billions of people have gone to the heaven where birds fly.... including Elijah.... but they all land at the end of their flight .... like Elijah.

There is ONLY one hope for the righteous .... Resurrection from the GRAVE to eternal life "at Christ's coming".... and then inheriting the EARTH.

Don't get me wrong, I am WELL aware that the Scriptures state repeatedly .... our REWARD is in heaven, waiting for Jesus to bring it with him;

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


Rev 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
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Right...they go to heaven fully clothed not not just spirits...

Imagine being spirit form NOT able to eat or pet the lion or hug the ONE Who saved you...but just float around and have to look down and see your loved ones fail and be tormented...and NOT be able to do anything...

That I know of...not seen anyone be advised from the dead...seems like witches would be more successful if that was the case...
 
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xfrodobagginsx

Active member
clefty said:
From a throne they built Him in a temple they made for Him? How do they know it’s Him and not some imposter?

And all His judgements...how do we know they are good?
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You are mixing up two events. One is the rapture of the Church. Two is the Second Coming of Christ. They aren't the same event. They are 7 years apart.
 
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Dartman

Active member
xfrodobagginsx said:
You are mixing up two events. One is the rapture of the Church. Two is the Second Coming of Christ. They aren't the same event. They are 7 years apart.
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Not according to Scripture. Both events coincide with the exact same trumpet, the 7th/last trumpet.
There is no "rapture of the church", that's a VERY recent theory, and isn't Biblical.
 
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clefty

New member
Dartman said:
Not according to Scripture. Both events coincide with the exact same trumpet, the 7th/last trumpet.
There is no "rapture of the church", that's a VERY recent theory, and isn't Biblical.
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Yup...

And the coming of a thief at night is only a surprise to ones NOT watching for him...

nothing secret/surprise at all when EVERY EYE shall see His coming

and the righteous dead...those asleep in Him...rise first in the same manner He did with flesh and blood...

...then the living righteous are twinkled into new bodies and follow to meet Him in the air to go to mansions He prepared...

the rest of unrighteousness living join their fellow dead...to sleep...the earth now made desolate...satan chained by darkness for a thousand years...no one to tempt...
 
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xfrodobagginsx

Active member
Dartman said:
Not according to Scripture. Both events coincide with the exact same trumpet, the 7th/last trumpet.
There is no "rapture of the church", that's a VERY recent theory, and isn't Biblical.
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Yes according to Scripture. Paul's writing was written to the primarily Gentile Church, the other one was written to the Jews under the Kingdom. Two separate events. The rapture precedes the second coming of Christ by 7 years. Ever heard of Daniel's 70 weeks? 490 years? The last week of 7 years isn't fulfilled until after the rapture. Because the jews rejected their Messiah, the clock stopped until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Once the Church is taken out of the way, the clock will start again and the last 7 years will begin. That's known as the 7 year tribulation.
 
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Dartman

Active member
xfrodobagginsx said:
Yes according to Scripture. Paul's writing was written to the primarily Gentile Church, the other one was written to the Jews under the Kingdom.
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There is no such division in the Church;
Gal 3:26-29 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.




XX said:
Two separate events.
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Not at all. Identical descriptions, one event. ALL righteous, of ALL time, of ALL ethnicities, ALL resurrected to eternal life at the same time, at the same trump.


XX said:
The rapture precedes the second coming of Christ by 7 years. Ever heard of Daniel's 70 weeks? 490 years? The last week of 7 years isn't fulfilled until after the rapture. Because the jews rejected their Messiah, the clock stopped until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Once the Church is taken out of the way, the clock will start again and the last 7 years will begin. That's known as the 7 year tribulation.
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I'm well aware of the fallacy of this so-called 7 year rapture. The distortion of Daniels 490 years is sad. The last 7 years of the 490 years is Christ's ministry for 3 1/2 years, and then the apostles going to Israel for another 3 1/2 years. ALL 490 were fulfilled, and then the gospel went to the Gentiles..... exactly like Jesus had foretold.
 
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xfrodobagginsx

Active member
Dartman said:
There is no such division in the Church;
Gal 3:26-29 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


I'm well aware of the fallacy of this so-called 7 year rapture. The distortion of Daniels 490 years is sad. The last 7 years of the 490 years is Christ's ministry for 3 1/2 years, and then the apostles going to Israel for another 3 1/2 years. ALL 490 were fulfilled, and then the gospel went to the Gentiles..... exactly like Jesus had foretold.
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I understand that the Gospel of Grace extends to all. But the Gospel of the Kingdom was a bit different. It was given to the Jews under the Law and required water Baptism. The Gospel of Grace is of Faith in Christ alone, believing that He died and rose again, shedding His blood for your sins.

Secondly, it is not called the 7 year rapture. It's simply called the rapture of the Church. The 490 years were not fulfilled. 489 were until the time of His death and resurrection. Because Israel rejected their Messiah, there was a pause, break in the program and the Gospel of Grace was extended to the Gentiles under Paul, but yes it is to anyone who will believe. God is NOT through with Israel. They WILL turn back to God and accept their Messiah Jesus Christ. The rapture/tribulation period brings this to happen. The Holy Spirit is the one holding back the power of satan to bring it about in the world today. The Bible says that He will be taken out of the way (during the rapture)

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
Dead are dead.

They have no consciousness therefore cannot go anywhere.

See Psalm 6:5. Ecclesiastes 9.

I These 4:13-17.
 
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xfrodobagginsx

Active member
oatmeal said:
Dead are dead.

They have no consciousness therefore cannot go anywhere.

See Psalm 6:5. Ecclesiastes 9.

I These 4:13-17.
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wrong. Conciousness goes on after physical death. The verse you referenced is regarding the physical body, not the soul and the spirit. The story of the Rich man and Lazarus is another example. There are many examples. Revelation has people in heaven talking to God.


1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. 6For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. 7And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
 
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TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings xfr,
xfrodobagginsx said:
It's only by faith alone in Christ and His sacrifice on the cross.
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It seems that Philip preached a different message to what you preach:
Acts 8:5-6,12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
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xfrodobagginsx

Active member
TrevorL said:
Greetings xfr,It seems that Philip preached a different message to what you preach:
Acts 8:5-6,12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Kind regards
Trevor
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Philip preached the Gospel of the Kingdom. Paul preached the gospel of grace. You only find grace in Paul's writings. The last I checked Acts was written by Luke.
 
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TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again xfr,
xfrodobagginsx said:
Philip preached the Gospel of the Kingdom. Paul preached the gospel of grace. You only find grace in Paul's writings. The last I checked Acts was written by Luke.
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Yes I agree that The Acts was written by Luke. He records details of what Peter preached in Acts 2, Acts 3 and Acts 10 and these records are most probably a summary of what he said. Luke also records that Philip preached the Gospel to the Samaritans but we do not have details of what he said, but Luke summarises Philip’s preaching in the following:
Acts 8:5–6,12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Now you say that “Philip preached the Gospel of the Kingdom”, but Luke states that the Gospel that Philip was “preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ”. We also have a few details of Philip’s preaching to the Ethiopian Eunuch and they discussed Isaiah 53 which speaks of the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus.

You say that “Paul preached the gospel of grace”, but the following are two examples of what Paul preached:
Acts 19:8 (KJV): And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
Acts 20:24–25 (KJV): 24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God. 25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
Luke does not seem to distinguish between the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace in the above references, but uses the two terms interchangeably.

Also Luke records when Paul preached the Gospel to Jews and Gentiles in Rome:
Acts 28:23–31 (KJV): 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
Luke uses the same terms for the preaching of Paul here, as he used for the preaching by Philip to the Samaritans. Thus your distinction is not maintained by Luke. There is only one Gospel, “the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ” preached by Peter, Philip and Paul.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
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