ECT How is Paul's message different?

God's Truth

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The Church in Antioch
Acts 11:19 Now those who had been scattered by the persecution that broke out when Stephen was killed traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, spreading the word only among Jews. 20 Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus. 21 The Lord’s hand was with them, and a great number of people believed and turned to the Lord.

22 News of this reached the church in Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas to Antioch. 23 When he arrived and saw what the grace of God had done, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all their hearts. 24 He was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and faith, and a great number of people were brought to the Lord.

25 Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul,


From these scriptures we see that the Christian Jews were scattered after Stephen was killed.

Remember that Paul guarded the men's clothes who killed Stephen. Paul guarded the clothes those men took off so that Stephan's blood would not splatter on their clothes as they beat Stephen with rocks.

After the Christian Jews scattered when Stephen was killed, some Jews spread the word only among Jews, but some of the Jews began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus. That is before Paul.
 

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The Church in Antioch
Acts 11:19 Now those who had been scattered by the persecution that broke out when Stephen was killed traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, spreading the word only among Jews. 20 Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus. 21 The Lord’s hand was with them, and a great number of people believed and turned to the Lord.

22 News of this reached the church in Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas to Antioch. 23 When he arrived and saw what the grace of God had done, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all their hearts. 24 He was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and faith, and a great number of people were brought to the Lord.

25 Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul,

From these scriptures we see that the Christians Jews were scattered after Stephen was killed.

Remember that Paul guarded the men's clothes who killed Stephen. Paul guarded the clothes those men took off so that Stephan's blood would not splatter on their clothes as they beat Stephen with rocks.

After the Christian Jews scattered when Stephen was killed, some Jews spread the word only among Jews, but some of the Jews began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus.
Acts 11:19-21 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:19) ¶ Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. (11:20) And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus. (11:21) And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.

GRECIANS were Greek speaking JEWS.

The word only appears THREE times in scripture, here are the other two.

Acts 6:1 (AKJV/PCE)
(6:1) And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.

Acts 9:29 (AKJV/PCE)
(9:29) And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him.

In Acts 6 that was GRECIANS (Greek speaking Jews) arguing with HEBREWS (Hebrew speaking Jews). No gentiles at all. Same with Acts 11.

In Acts 11, it CLEARLY says that they were preaching to the Jews only and YET many like you think otherwise.

In Acts 9, Paul is disputing with the GRECIANS in Jerusalem. They were NOT gentiles.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Converts of the Twelve were members of the Kingdom of Israel and where not members of the Body of Christ.

NONSENSE!

Those who received the epistles of John were waiting for the rapture, just like all of the other members of the Body of Christ:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).​

John told these believers that they were expecting to see the Lord Jesus appear while they remained alive and they were expecting that at His appearance they would be made like Him. There is no evidence that when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth to set up His earthly kingdom that living believers will be made like Him. Therefore, John's words can only be in regard to the "mystery" truth found here and only applies to members of the Body of Christ:

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed"
(1 Cor.15:51-52).​

Besides that, those who received the Hebrew epistles were expecting an "imminent" appearance of the Lord Jesus and the only imminent appearance is the rapture.

Clete's teaching on this matter came straight from the Acts 28 camp (the Bullingerites) and it is a fact that Sir Robert Anderson, J.C. O'Hair and Cornelius Stam all declared that all of the first century Jewish believers were baptized by one Spirit into the Body of Christ.
 

God's Truth

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Acts 11:19-21 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:19) ¶ Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. (11:20)

UNTO THE JEW ONLY.

Did you hear that?

Some began to speak to the JEWS ONLY.


If you want to say that the message was only to the Jews then you must see that any Greek who had converted to Judaism is still a Gentile by blood.

And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus. (11:21) And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.
GRECIANS were Greek speaking JEWS.

The word only appears THREE times in scripture, here are the other two.

Acts 6:1 (AKJV/PCE)
(6:1) And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.

Acts 9:29 (AKJV/PCE)
(9:29) And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him.

In Acts 6 that was GRECIANS (Greek speaking Jews) arguing with HEBREWS (Hebrew speaking Jews). No gentiles at all. Same with Acts 11.

The good news was to all and NO LONGER OF BLOOD or a MAN's DECISION. That means the good news is NOT just to someone because they are blood related to Abraham, and the good news is not to someone who DECIDED to become a Jew by conversion.

John 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.


That truth was preached in the gospels according to when Jesus walked the earth.


In Acts 11, it CLEARLY says that they were preaching to the Jews only and YET many like you think otherwise.

In Acts 9, Paul is disputing with the GRECIANS in Jerusalem. They were NOT gentiles.

It doesn't wash what you are saying.

Cornelius was not a Grecian Jew.

You can't get around the fact that Cornelius was a Gentile and the Jews were not allowed to associate with the uncircumcised.

Paul's message is not different, it is the same.

Don't forget that Barnabas went to get Paul, Paul who preached the one and only gospel that saves.

Acts 26:23 that Christ would suffer, and as the first to rise from the dead, He would proclaim light to our people and to the Gentiles.”

Galatians 1:23 They only heard the report: “The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus and Jerusalem, then to everyone in the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I declared that they should repent and turn to God ,performing deeds worthy of their repentance.
 

God's Truth

New member
Peter:

Acts 11:18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”


Paul:


Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus and Jerusalem, then to everyone in the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I declared that they should repent and turn to God ,performing deeds worthy of their repentance.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Paul is the minister to Jesus' gospel, the gospel Jesus preached when he walked the earth.

Paul preached the same gospel that Peter preached.


Acts 11
Peter Explains His Actions

11 The apostles and the believers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. 2 So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcised believers criticized him 3 and said, “You went into the house of uncircumcised men and ate with them.”

8 “I replied, ‘Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth.’

9 “The voice spoke from heaven a second time, ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.’ 10 This happened three times, and then it was all pulled up to heaven again.

11 “Right then three men who had been sent to me from Caesarea stopped at the house where I was staying. 12 The Spirit told me to have no hesitation about going with them. These six brothers also went with me, and we entered the man’s house. 13 He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. 14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’

15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

The Church in Antioch
19 Now those who had been scattered by the persecution that broke out when Stephen was killed traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, spreading the word only among Jews. 20 Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus. 21 The Lord’s hand was with them, and a great number of people believed and turned to the Lord.

22 News of this reached the church in Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas to Antioch. 23 When he arrived and saw what the grace of God had done, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all their hearts. 24 He was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and faith, and a great number of people were brought to the Lord.

25 Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.


You all see that? This was before Paul.

Stop trolling this great thread. Go away. :troll:
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
NONSENSE!

Those who received the epistles of John were waiting for the rapture, just like all of the other members of the Body of Christ:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).​

John told these believers that they were expecting to see the Lord Jesus appear while they remained alive and they were expecting that at His appearance they would be made like Him. There is no evidence that when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth to set up His earthly kingdom that living believers will be made like Him. Therefore, John's words can only be in regard to the "mystery" truth found here and only applies to members of the Body of Christ:

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed"
(1 Cor.15:51-52).​

Besides that, those who received the Hebrew epistles were expecting an "imminent" appearance of the Lord Jesus and the only imminent appearance is the rapture.

Clete's teaching on this matter came straight from the Acts 28 camp (the Bullingerites) and it is a fact that Sir Robert Anderson, J.C. O'Hair and Cornelius Stam all declared that all of the first century Jewish believers were baptized by one Spirit into the Body of Christ.

Never even heard of J.C. O'Hair.

Pretty sure Stam is Acts 9, not Acts 28 (I could very easily be wrong about that - I can't see how it matters). Regardless, I didn't learn a syllable of my last post from reading Stam, which is not to say I couldn't have. Stam was brilliant. His book "Things That Differ" is one of my favorite books.

The only writings of Bullinger's I've read are "The Witness of the Stars", which has nothing at all to do with dispensationalism, and I've read the writings contained in the appendixes of the Bullinger Study Bible and I don't recall a syllable about Acts 28 Dispensationalism in there. And even if there is, so what? He never made an argument based on himself or his own authority. Every stance I've ever seen him take has been based biblical data. Bullinger had more information about the bible in his little finger than you'll ever know.

Having said all that, I doubt that there is a thimble's worth of difference between the so called "Acts 28 camp" and what I believe. The point is that you've never once see me make an argument where I've quoted any of these authors as the basis for the argument. You're tendency towards making such unsubstantiated and frankly irrelevant and irrational statements is one of the major reasons you are on my ignore list. And that's just where you'll stay until you figure out that no one cares about your personal opinions.



Clete
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
That last post reminded me of another old post of mine. I once compiled a list of some of the books I've read that have had a significant impact on the way I think and on what I believe. I repost it here for your consideration. By the way, it is a very old post and so I have no idea if any of the links will work....



Here's a list of some of the best and most influential books I've read. It isn't a complete list, by any means, but as I remember other important books I will add them to the list. Also if I read anything new that I feel is deserving I'll add that as well. I hope that this will be a valuable resource for some of you. Let me know what you think!


1. The Plot by Bob Enyart
No matter what, read this one first! It's expensive but worth it. If you cannot afford it call 1-888-8Enyart and talk to Bob about it. He's more interested in getting the information out than he is about making money so he'll take whatever you can afford. I cannot over stress this enough. You must read this book. If you do not understand the teachings in The Plot (whether you've read the book or not) then you do not understand the Bible. It's as simple as that.

2. The Complete Green Letters by Miles J. Stanford
This one will be lots cheaper in fact the whole first section of the book is available online for free HERE.
When I first read this book it totally glazed my eyes over. I hated it! But I picked it up again after having read The Plot and it totally changed my life! What a difference it makes when you understand the plot of the Bible and the distinctive nature of Paul's ministry and message. This book has had the largest impact on how I live my life day to day than any other extra-biblical book. In fact, while The Plot covers similar material it was this books presentation of the Gospel of Grace that really made me see it and understand how it is supposed to work on a practical day to day level. Awesome!

3. Things That Differ - by C.R. Stam
This one further establishes the biblical validity of Acts 9 Dispensationalism. There are actually several such books but this one does the best job I've seen aside from The Plot and I like to recommend it because it gives you a thorough presentation of the Biblical material from someone who is not associated in any way with Bob Enyart or his ministry.
I remember thinking that it was odd that Bob was the only one who had ever figured this stuff out and was relieved to find that he is not and that, in fact, there are world-wide ministries (i.e. The Berean Bible Society) which teach nearly identical theology.

4. Bob Enyart's Bible Studies – by Bob Enyart
This is the only departure from actual books on my list. These are Bible studies that Bob has recorded on tape or CD. I recommend all of them. Simply call 1-888-8Enyart and get them started coming to your house every month. Unless you end up going Derby School of Theology, these will give you the most in depth Biblical teaching you will every get, period. In addition to that, if you read the rest of what's on my list and accept its teaching, some Bible teaching that actually teaches you something will be in desperate demand, as some of you have already discovered. When I came to understand these teachings, I found a new appreciation for the saying "ignorance is bliss". Be warned, the truth has the effect of isolating you in a sea of ignorance and apathy. A nice place to be for those who are wise.

5. The Normal Christian Life - by Watchman Nee
This one I recommend with a bit of trepidation. This is the ONLY volume written by Nee that anyone should ever read. Everything else he wrote is worthless. It is amazing that someone so confused about everything else could get this one so right! So read this AFTER you've read the others already listed and get from it what you can (which is a lot) and then forget that Nee existed. Truly, his other books are almost completely worthless.

6. Romans: Verse by Verse - by William Newell
Simply the best commentary on Romans in existence (that I know of). Brilliant!

7. Does God Have a Future? – by Chris Hall & John Sanders
This one is a discussion/debate between Hall and Sanders. They are friends and besides some excellent argumentation on both sides, it's just a terrific example of how such debates should be carried out. The respect these two have for one another is obvious and the result is a terrific example of how Biblical disagreements should be handled between men of good character and conscience.

8. Mere Christianity – by C.S. Lewis
This is a classic that every Christian should read. Enough said.

9. The Chronicles of Narnia – by C.S. Lewis
This is a must, especially if you have kids or sometimes feel like a kid inside. This isn't a theological book but rather a Christian allegory. I only mention it here because I just had Lewis on my mind and couldn't resist. The only word of warning on these books is that in the finale Lewis presents what basically amounts to a sort of universalism which is obviously an error of his theology that crept into the work. If you can over look that one problem, this is an exceptional work of fiction that everyone seems to love.

10. The Big Questions: Philosophy for Everyone – by Nils Ch. Rauhut
This book is for those of you who have never taken a philosophy course. In fact, it reads very much like you are sitting in a philosophy class. It is very readable, very understandable and very down to Earth; the subtitle is perfectly right. Anyone can pick up this book and have a solid working knowledge of the basics of philosophy and logic. This book will definitely make you a better debater because you will understand more clearly the underlying issues of a question usually before the person who asked the question does.

11. Please Understand Me – by Kersey & Bates
This is a secular work about personality profiles. It has a test in it that tells you what your personality profile is and a lot about why you do the things you do. Once you become familiar with the principles in the book you'll be able to "size people up" with relative ease and will thereby be able to understand where they are coming from and can anticipate their behavior. Absolutely invaluable for married couples as well as anyone else who has close personal relationships with people they sometimes don't understand.

12. God of the Possible: A Biblical Introduction to the Open View of God – by Gregory Boyd
The title pretty much tells the story on this one. Brilliant book!

13. The God Who Risks: A Theology of Providence – by John Sanders
If you read this one and God of the Possible, you'll have Open Theism down pat!

14. Divine Foreknowledge: Four Views – by Gregory Boyd, David Hunt, William Lane Graig & Paul Helm
Each author presents their view on the divine foreknowledge debate and a response to the other views. Boyd presents some of the best Open View arguments I've ever heard of in this book (aside from Bob's of course ;) ).

15. The Witness of the Stars – by E.W. Bullinger
This one is all about how the Gospel story is found in the Zodiac of all places. As it turns out the stars were the Bible before there was the Bible. Others have published very similar material but this is by far the best. I love the old English that Bullinger used (the book was written in 1893).

16. Can Man Live Without God - by Ravi Zacharias
This is a brilliant apologetic for the Christian faith. Better perhaps than even Mere Christianity.

17. You Cannot Live the Christian Life - by Bob Hill
This is a sermon that Pastor Hill preached that has been converted into booklet form. The teaching here is crucial for the Christian to understand. The key to the Christian life is not performance but relationship. Love God and become more and more aware of His immediate presence in every moment of your life. This booklet goes along perfectly with The Complete Green Letters.
You'll have to contact Pastor Hill in order to get a copy of this one. You can contact him through his website - BiblicalAnswers.com.

18. Charismatic Chaos - by John MacArthur
If my father in-law had read and paid any attention to this book at all, he would still be alive today. This book exposes Benny Hinn and the other crack-pots like him for the con artists they are.

19. Classic Christianity: Life's Too Short to Miss the Real Thinghttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/s...ords=Classic+Christianity&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go - by Bob George
Disapointed in your Christian walk? This is the book for you.
For a man who isn't an Acts 9 Dispensationalist George comes as close as anyone can to getting the answers to the following questions right...
  • What does it mean to have Christ living in me?
  • How can I experience the joy of the Lord daily?
  • If I'm a new creation, why do I still struggle with sin?

20. To Train Up A Childhttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/104-1513849-6259138 - by Michael Pearl
Perhaps the best book written on the subject of raising Godly children.

21. Christian Child-Rearing and Personality Developmenthttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_1/104-1513849-6259138?v=glance&s=books - by Paul Meier
This is also an excellent book for any parent to read. It is more clinical and scientific than To Train Up a Child and is chop full of very interesting and useful information about why children do the things they do.

22. Rich Dad Poor Dad - by by Sharon L. Lechter, Robert T. Kiyosaki
This book will change the way you think about money forever.

23. The Richest Man in Babylon - by George S. Clason
What a great book this one is! If the Christian reader can get past the fact that it is set in ancient Babylon, there is a wealth of really terrific information about how people get money and more importantly how they keep it. This one is even better than Rich Dad Poor Dad really and I would recommend reading it first.

24. Liberty and Tyranny: A Conservative Manifesto - by Mark Levin
The best book on modern American politics in existence. The only book you need to read to understand what it means to be politically conservative in America today. Simply brilliant.

25. Atlas Shrugged - by Ayn Rand
I "read" this book via the audio book version. Its the only way to go. I started to actually read it several times and gave up. Listening to it on my lunch hour and on the way to and from work was the ticket
Simply the best book I've ever read, bar none - period - end of sentence.

Beware! This book is written by a BRILLIANT atheist. If you understand the book, it WILL challenge your faith. I don't recommend this for new Christians nor for anyone who is particularly sensitive to anything that mentions human sexuality in any emotionally meaningful way. Ayn pulls no punches with this book and she is brutally rational. Interestingly, in my view, this brutal intellectual adherence to rationality (i.e. reality) is precisely what makes this book more consistent with Biblical truth than any other work of fiction I've ever read.

Well that's it for now! More to come soon.

Oh! By the way, except for the first few, these are not in any particular order.

God bless!

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
25. Atlas Shrugged - by Ayn Rand
I "read" this book via the audio book version. Its the only way to go. I started to actually read it several times and gave up. Listening to it on my lunch hour and on the way to and from work was the ticket
Simply the best book I've ever read, bar none - period - end of sentence.

Beware! This book is written by a BRILLIANT atheist. If you understand the book, it WILL challenge your faith. I don't recommend this for new Christians nor for anyone who is particularly sensitive to anything that mentions human sexuality in any emotionally meaningful way. Ayn pulls no punches with this book and she is brutally rational. Interestingly, in my view, this brutal intellectual adherence to rationality (i.e. reality) is precisely what makes this book more consistent with Biblical truth than any other work of fiction I've ever read.

Well that's it for now! More to come soon.

Oh! By the way, except for the first few, these are not in any particular order.

God bless!

Resting in Him,
Clete

Audio on youtube.

Part 1 (10 hours)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9lPfQeocmc

Part 2 (10 hours)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cbcMwN_Nps
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
3. Things That Differ - by C.R. Stam
This one further establishes the biblical validity of Acts 9 Dispensationalism. There are actually several such books but this one does the best job I've seen aside from The Plot and I like to recommend it because it gives you a thorough presentation of the Biblical material from someone who is not associated in any way with Bob Enyart or his ministry.
I remember thinking that it was odd that Bob was the only one who had ever figured this stuff out and was relieved to find that he is not and that, in fact, there are world-wide ministries (i.e. The Berean Bible Society) which teach nearly identical theology.
That link no longer works, but this one does .....

http://www.gracegospel.eu/StamI13.pdf
 

musterion

Well-known member
Probably because I was a Baptist, Stam's BAPTISM AND THE BIBLE is the one that put me over the top and into the MAD camp.

Bob Hill's little booklet on the Rapture (long lost but reacquired last year thanks to Tam or Glory, or both) is for me the single best book on why the Rapture is true and why it has to be pre-trib.

I have much of Miles Stanford's stuff; the reader just needs to carefully weed out the occasional Calvinistic comment or quote source. Other than that...gold.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
You're tendency towards making such unsubstantiated and frankly irrelevant and irrational statements is one of the major reasons you are on my ignore list. And that's just where you'll stay until you figure out that no one cares about your personal opinions.

I noticed that you just ignored the fact that those who received the Hebrew epistles were taught to be expecting an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus. And only those in the Body are taught to waiting for that appearance.

I also noticed that you did not address what John wrote here:
"
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is"
(1 Jn.3:2).​

John told these believers that they were expecting to see the Lord Jesus appear while they remained alive and they were expecting that at His appearance they would be made like Him. There is no evidence that when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth to set up His earthly kingdom that living believers will be made like Him. Therefore, John's words can only be in regard to the "mystery" truth found here and only applies to members of the Body of Christ:

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed"
(1 Cor.15:51-52).​

The difference between us is the fact that my opinions are backed up by the Scriptures while yours are based on nothing but thin air.

Having said all that, I doubt that there is a thimble's worth of difference between the so called "Acts 28 camp" and what I believe.

Do you even know what determined the beginning of the present dispensation? I doubt it!
 
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DAN P

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart; I also noticed that you did not address what John wrote here: [INDENT said:
"
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is"
(1 Jn.3:2).[/INDENT]
!


Hi Jerry and I will be happy to address what 1 John 3:2 means !!

There are 8 verbs in verse 2 !!

#1 One verb is WE SHALL SEE / ESOMAI and is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , care to explain to me and Clete , why is that tenses is used here ??

#2 , The 5th verb is WE SHALL SEE / OPTANOMAI is also in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , why Jerry , since you are always taking about IMMINENT !!

# 3 The 5th Greek verb is very interesting , HE SHALL APPEAR / PHANEROO , and is in the AOTIST TENSE or what is called the PAST TENSE which happens ONLY ONCE in the PAST !!

So you just said the THAT is combined with the MYSTERY , , and where does it say that ??

#4 So , 1 THESS 4:13-18 and 2 Thess 2:1-3 , where it talks about BEING CAUGHT UP / PAROUSIA and where it says in Gal 1:4 to be RESCUED is a caught up DEPARTURE and these all mean the same as 1 John 3:2 ??

The AORIST tense only happens ONE TIME ON # 3 , you should consider and go back to the DRAWING BOARD !!

And as far as what Acts 28er believe , they are so far out !!

Just ask them where Paul was saved ?

They will say Paul was saved under Kingdom preaching !

Most Acts 28er will not take the Lord's supper !!

Most believe in 2 B O C !

Some believe in 2 B O C !!

Some believe in soul sleep !!

They believe that the first 7 books that Paul wrote are not for the B O C !!

Just to mention a few !!

dan p
 

DAN P

Well-known member
It is future tense because the appearing remains in the future!

Hi Jerry and the FUTURE TENSE is used , because Israel has been set aside as 2 Cor 3:13-15 has SAID !!

1 John 3:2 is NOT SPEAKING about the MYSTERY , as did Paul !!~

Do you have a verse where John preached the MYSTERY and where John is the apostle to the Gentiles as Paul IS !!

i see you did not address the AOTIST TENSE VERB , HE SHALL APPEAR / PHANEROO and 1 John 3:2 is a ONE TIME thing that only happens ONCE !

So where in the FUTURE does it happen ??

dan p
 

turbosixx

New member
In Acts 15 after they had considered the matter did they say in the letter they gave to Barnabas and Paul and sent with two witnesses,Judas and Silas,,, that they were to be circumcised and follow the law or only that in the letter, or that neither of the two still stood and to follow the new covenant?,,, which of the three are missing in what was their decision?

Could you please rephrase the question? I want to be sure exactly what you're asking.
 
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