"The only thing you can communicate to someone else by the laying on of hands is disease germs" ~ J. Vernon McGee :granite:
How I KNOW it is God's will to heal all who desire it
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"The only thing you can communicate to someone else by the laying on of hands is disease germs" ~ J. Vernon McGee :granite:
Lon
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:nono: It 'may' be and I will try to show why, at least I think so, in a moment...
The two aren't the same. It is correct it is within His counsel, but I will give what I believe is more predictable about His consistent counsel, in a moment...
Paul. I realize a lot of people think his Thorn in the Flesh wasn't physical, but 'in the flesh' means 'in the flesh' as far as I understand such. He was told 'no' not once, but 3 times, Tam and Heir are correct. I will again, give you a reason why I believe all of this is true.
This topic is near and dear to you, I understand that. Likely, you will not agree with my reasoning and conclusions or those others have presented. It is very much part of the health and wealth thrust of Charismatics. None of that is meant to be critical but observational and acknowledgment.
Well, you missed 'reasonability' and 'theology.' As I said, there is a reason I believe God does not heal, and I will explain now here in the next line...
First the scripture that impresses me that God heals sometimes, and not others and why:
Explaining:
Php 1:20 as it is my eager expectation and hope that I will not be at all ashamed, but that with full courage now as always Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or by death.[/QUOTE]Paul was in chains, facing death. The context isn't healing, but Paul is explaining God's priority concerning Paul's life, especially the immediacy of his death...
Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Not only is God concerned about Paul's death, Paul is concerned about his death, and calls it gain, just as his life is Christ. Both are good things. Again, BOTH are good things. Death, for the Christian, is a 'good' thing.
Php 1:22 If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell.
Both again. One is good for Paul, in his mind. He believes not only that he is an alien, in this life, but that death is better! Paul is explaining a priority and importance of this life, that both God and he embrace: That death and life are both good, for different reasons.
Php 1:23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.
Even to the point where dying is 'far' better.
Php 1:24 But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account.
So, for Paul, the flesh is important, because of the need of others, especially as an Apostle.
Because it is better to be with Christ, there are times God says "no, this death is better."
Not all sickness leads to death, and our bodies are adapted to heal. God does do miraculous healing today and often to enable a saint to go about his/her Master's business. He does love us and is concerned with our infirmities, but it is clear in scripture God healed and other times didn't according to His own counsel, sometimes revealed in clarity. There are a lot of good reasons why God would use a sickness or infirmity for His glory. Remember Joseph's tribulations? Remember Job's trials and long-lasting disease?
We are aliens and strangers in this land. The healing of these temporal bodies is of little consequence in light of much much more important matters of faith and life. Imo, God heals as He desires and is not at my beckoned call. Faith does not 'manipulate' God. It appeals to His graces and I do not believe it is always best that we or another are healed.
Joh 6:26 Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves.
Joh 6:27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal."
When Jesus explained they they weren't looking for Him, but health and wealth (food) and that He was not going to give it to them, then this verse:
Joh 6:66 After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him.
This is the danger of heath, wealth, and prosperity denominations, they are looking for matters of the flesh, and missing the Christ.
| I'd rather have Jesus | |
You may disagree, but please 'try' and see that Christ-honoring theology and scriptures drive the disagreement. I'm not dogmatic to shove it down your throat, but I believe it is scripturally substantial and embracing the sentiments of God concerning our health.
journey
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It's a fact that ALL people of even the greatest faith get sick and eventually die. There are no 2,000 year-old Christians, and this is not the Acts period. I think that the healing game is a con game, and it's a very dangerous one that keeps many people from getting the help they really need from a doctor. I've had many Charismatic friends who died because they wouldn't go to the doctor. Bluntly, this is not the age for many miracles, signs, and wonders. That time ended with the Acts period. There is one death per person, and we are sure to see our time unless the Rapture happens first. In the meantime, we need to use common sense and go see the doctor. Don't get me wrong - I firmly believe that God does as He pleases in heaven and on earth, so - yes - there are still miracles from time to time.
How ya doin burgers? still tryin to get blest?
The kingdom of heaven is here, it is not yet manifest it is hidden. The kingdom of heaven is 2 things, it is the spiritual or heavenly realm which is the church part and it is the future earthly kingdom of which Jerusalem will be capital, that will be ruled by Christ and His saints from heaven and ministered through the Jews from Jerusalem.
The Millennial age. The heavenly part is the greater. Victory over the natural realm must first take place in the heavenly realm where we are sat with Christ far above all principality and power.
The victory was won at Calvary, we's suppose to be making manifest that victory by preaching the gospel, the good news. We are in [according to Paul] a spiritual war against spiritual wickedness in high places, the spiritual host of wickedness in heavenly places.
As they are cleared out of their heavenly places in this age the kingdom of heaven becomes manifest physically on earth. The battle is against false doctrines and philosophies which [although they are defeated] still vaunt themselves against God.
The job will be completed when the Lord returns.
Paul was not demon possessed
Lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations [have YOU had an abundance of revelations?] there was given to me a thorn in the flesh the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
For this thing I besought the Lord thrice that it might depart from me.
And He said unto me "My grace is sufficient for thee for My strength is made perfect in in weakness" Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities in reproaches, in neccesities, in persecutions and distresses for Christ's sake for when I am weak then am I strong.
So Paul FULLY explains what this thorn in the flesh was, it was the reproaches and persecutions etc. A messenger of Satan, an angel who followed Paul around whipping up the quarrels and persecutions etc.
This is to be of uncertain mind, doublemindedness.
How can you have faith if you are not SURE what God's will is?
Sometimes He saves sometimes He doesn't. But all who come to Him for salvation are saved, "he that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out"
Did He ever? is there an instance where Christ refused to save? nor is there an instance of His refusing to heal. But faith is essential to both. Truly it is all one work
On the cross Christ paid a full redemptive price for the whole salvation of the total person.
He bore our sins in His own body
He bare our sicknesses and carried our diseases
The chastisement of our PEACE was upon Him
He bore our sorrows and griefs.
To be SAVED means to be made every whit whole. But only part of the gospel is preached so only part of the gospel can be received.
Do saved Christians backslide into sin? Nobody is here claiming [except the MADianites] that the perfect is yet come. But the gospel itself is a prophecy of that perfect. It is the good news of the kingdom of heaven. There will be no sickness or death or sorrow in that kingdom. Miracles are the sign that the kingdom is come.
But it will not have it's full manifestation until Christ returns.
Preach what Christ did on the cross, did He bare our sins? God will back it up
did He bare our sickness and carry our diseases? preach it and God will back it up.
Was the chastisement for our peace upon Him...preach it and God will back it up.
Paul did not preach the wisdom of men like we do. He preached the cross with the power and demonstration of the Holy Spirit.
Word based mystic
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know in part
know in part
because we only know in part.
and the church is still as an infant.
And we don't See Him face to face.
over the last 35 years as a christian
the more I/we pray for others the more people % wise are healed.
eyes healed, ovaries replaced by God (that were surgically removed). which the person healed has the old removed ovaries in a jar.
the more we pray the more people get healed.
know in part
because we only know in part.
and the church is still as an infant.
And we don't See Him face to face.
over the last 35 years as a christian
the more I/we pray for others the more people % wise are healed.
eyes healed, ovaries replaced by God (that were surgically removed). which the person healed has the old removed ovaries in a jar.
the more we pray the more people get healed.
how do you know that I am not?
Because you do your own "freewill"
and that includes using the common understanding of words
does God want me to create confusion by corrupting the meaning of words?
Everyone knows what freewill means...you can do as you please
Only Christians confuse everybody, they say "God gave you freewill...but you must not sin"
Only Christians confuse everybody, they say "God gave you freewill...but you must not sin"
doesn't everyone know there are consequences?
The consequences negate the free of freewill
But dear Chrys we will continue this on another thread, another day, no doubt 
But dear Chrys we will continue this on another thread, another day, no doubt
you can't hold me responsible for what I do
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