ECT Heaven, when do we go there?

revpete

revpete

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iamaberean said:
What about these scriptures, revpete,
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Jesus told his disciples that they would sit on the throne judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Note: They will not be judging Christians)

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God
The ones that were beheaded were the disciples. This scripture relates to Mat 19:28

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Note: The dead were judged according to their works, Old Testament Jews.
Christians are not judged by works!

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Note: These are the unfaithful Jews that are cast into the lake of fire, not Christians, our sins have been washed away by his blood.
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Firstly, thanks for your reply. The judging of Matt.19:28 does not refer to judging in terms of who's in and who's out because Jesus Himself said that ALL judgement has been committed to Him: Jn.5:22. I have no disagreement with you over this verse but please note that in Christ there is no Jew or Gentile but both are one in Him. As Paul teaches the wall between the two has been broken down making one new man in Him.

The great white throne judgement is the last judgement and refers to the dead in sin from all nations and ages.

As for your reference to the disciples being beheaded I have already answered that point. However, the scripture you refer to speaks of tribulation saints although I will admit that is open for discussion. You state that Rev. 20:4 relates to Matt.19:28, how exactly? Finally, I reiterate my point, which you haven't answered yet: how can you make the original language say something it clearly doesn't? See post #14.

Blessings: Pete 👤
 
I

iamaberean

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revpete said:
Hebrew: גּרל גּורל
Transliteration: gôrâl gôrâl
Pronunciation: {go-rawl'} go-ral'
Definition: From an unused root meaning to be rough (as stone); properly a {pebble} that {is} a lot (small stones being used for that purpose); figuratively a portion or destiny (as if determined by lot)

As you can see the word "lot" on this verse does not mean Jews. Nor in any other verse does "lot" refer to Jews or any other nation.

There are also other errors in your post, ex Peter was crucified upside down (according to tradition) not beheaded. John died of old age. Paul was indeed beheaded but most of the disciples were not.

It's really essential to look at the original language in order to gain a true understanding of the verse and context.

Blessings: Pete ��
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Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Just as it says, it was his distiny (lot) to stand with the other Jews (pebbles) at the end of time.

You may subscribe to another theory, but this one is mine.
 
Tambora

Tambora

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glorydaz said:
Me three. :thumb:
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revpete

revpete

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iamaberean said:
Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Just as it says, it was his distiny (lot) to stand with the other Jews (pebbles) at the end of time.

You may subscribe to another theory, but this one is mine.
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Ok, that's fair enough but the original language is stating fact not theory.

Blessings: Pete 👤
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
iamaberean said:
Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Just as it says, it was his distiny (lot) to stand with the other Jews (pebbles) at the end of time.

You may subscribe to another theory, but this one is mine.
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Such nonsense.
 
I

iamaberean

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Right Divider said:
Such nonsense.
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For one to understand the bible they must understand several things.

The bible was not written to us.

Jesus said he had come to fulfill all that had been written of him, that means the Old Testament, not the new. That includes the book of Daniel and every scripture that speaks of judgment.

The book of Revelation was not written to us. It is the symbolic language showing judgment upon the Jews.

The understanding of the word 'this' when Jesus speaks to the Jews saying "this generation". It means 'their generation' not ours.

Until one understands the above, they will never understand the bible. To them everything is written as a parable.

I am sorry it is nonsense to you.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

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iamaberean said:
For one to understand the bible they must understand several things.

The bible was not written to us.

Jesus said he had come to fulfill all that had been written of him, that means the Old Testament, not the new. That includes the book of Daniel and every scripture that speaks of judgment.

The book of Revelation was not written to us. It is the symbolic language showing judgment upon the Jews.

The understanding of the word 'this' when Jesus speaks to the Jews saying "this generation". It means 'their generation' not ours.

Until one understands the above, they will never understand the bible. To them everything is written as a parable.

I am sorry it is nonsense to you.
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IT is not nonsense; your fanciful belief about it is.
 
I

iamaberean

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Right Divider said:
IT is not nonsense; your fanciful belief about it is.
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If there is scripture to back your belief, quote it with your understanding as to:

1 Who was it written to

2 Prove time frame

3 realize that Jesus did say he came to fulfill everything written of him. (That would be everything in the Old Testament)

 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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Ask Mr. Religion said:
Concerning all who die prior to Christ's return, the Bible teaches that at the moment of death the human spirit (soul) departs its body to one of two possible destinations: Heaven or Hades (Luke 16:19-31; Phil. 1:19-26; James 2:26; Rev. 6:9, 20:4). Those who reach Heaven do so based not upon their own good works, but upon the work of Christ in their behalf—His righteous life and atoning death—and upon their God-given faith in Him (Mark 10: 45; John 1:12, 3:16; Rom. 3:21; Eph. 2:8-10).

The saints in Heaven (Abraham’s bosom)—fully aware of their surroundings and delighted by its manifold blessings per their walk of faith (Heb. 12:22-24)—eagerly await their Lord's return at the end of the age, when Our Lord will consummate their redemption by raising them from the dead with new, glorified, resurrection bodies just as He now possesses, and by creating for them a glorious new world in which they will forever live together with Him (Luke 20:27-40, John 5:28, 1 Cor. 15, Phil. 3:20-21; 2 Pet. 3:13).

Those who enter Hades (Sheol in Hebrew) do so based upon their own evil works, especially upon the evil work of suppressing the truth that God made known to them through nature, the Law, and the Gospel, the Gospel being God's only provision for the forgiveness of sin and the acquisition of eternal life (John 3:19,36: John 5:29; Acts 13:46, Rom. 2:8; 2 Thess. 1:8; Rev. 20:12).

In Hades the lost are in the torments of eternal punishment, deprived of God's every life-giving blessing, conscious of God's abiding wrath, and subject to the positive pains of divine retribution all according to their particular sins. Also, to the extent that they may be aware of it, the lost are tormented in this intermediate state of prison by anticipation of the Resurrection and the Day of Judgment, when Christ will send them—body and soul—into Gehenna (Hell), the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Mt. 8:29, Mt. 10:28, 25: 41; Mark 9:48, Luke 16:19-31; 2 Thess. 1:9; Rev. 20:14) where they will remain forever afterwards suffering unending punishment.

AMR
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I can go most of the way with you but not all the way. There is no more Abraham's bosom. They were those held captive by death, Jesus set free and many were seen after their resurrection. Paradise is now heaven. No more need for to be seen as being the abode of the righteus dead.
 
Ask Mr. Religion

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Cross Reference said:
I can go most of the way with you but not all the way. There is no more Abraham's bosom. They were those held captive by death, Jesus set free and many were seen after their resurrection. Paradise is now heaven. No more need for to be seen as being the abode of the righteus dead.
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Why bother asking a question under the guise of seeking to learn and be open to correction when you have it all figured out? As my post indicates, Abraham's Bosom is nothing but a reference to heaven.

AMR
 
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Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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Ask Mr. Religion said:
Why bother asking a question under the guise of seeking to learn ane be open to correction when you have it all figured out? As my post indicates, Abraham's Bosom is nothing but a reference to heaven.

AMR
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Why write so much as if I am interested in all that? I asked about the word "destroy".
 
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